Short Line Nymphing Leaders

[NJpatbee]

I have been purchasing knotless leaders for a while and they have served me well for for most types of fly-fishing with the exception of short-line nymphing. I usually wind up butchering a 7.5' or 9.0' leader and guestimating a reasonable taper down to 4x or 5x approximately 6' long. Some are better than others and I have been searching for some actual formulas.

I downloaded a copy of LeaderCalc2007 which has a variety of formulas recommended from different sources. The simplest leader formulas that the software offered were called "Schweitzer's 4 Segment All-Purpose" and "Schweitzer's 4 Segment Perfect Taper".

For a 6.5 leader 5X leader, the All-Purpose leader had 35" 08X, 20" 02X, 8" 3X, and 16" 5X. The Perfect Taper consisted of 39" 07X, 20" 02X, 10" 1X, and 10" 5X.

Has anyone used these or similar formulas, and how have they performed? Any other suggested formulas or sources?

Thanks

 

[Pete]

IMHO, "store bought" knotless leaders have a butt section that's two short and too light. I suspect that this shortcoming would be accentuated on short line casts.

I've been using (with some tweaks) the formulas found in McClaine's New Standard Fishing Encyclopedia for just about everything.

Generally they have:

• 60% Butt - Normally two pieces 0.018" and 0.016"
  
  20% Taper - Normally 6" lengths stepped in 0.002" incriments
  
  20% Tippet - Normally about 20" long, can be increased to as much as 30" under light wind conditions, or for small flys.

"Tweaks" may include an even heavier Butt for heavy/stiff lines, droppers, and various tippet lengths.

Disclaimer: I haven't bought a knotless leader since the early 1980s, they may have improved since then.

 

[The_Sib]

From Joe Humphreys' Trout tactics:

Nymph for pocket water 7'6"
.017----12"
.015----20"
.013----20"
.011----20"
.009----20" ( that's 2x fine ).

Personally, I use ( for a "base" leader - all Maxima 'hard' mono ):
.017----18"
.015----18"
.013----18"
.010----18"
.008----18" ( that's 3x fine of regular mono).
-----------------------------
That makes a 7'6" base leader ( which is also good for streamers ).

Then
.007----18" ( that's 4x ) soft mono or fluoro tippet.
When the water gets clear, I may go to 5x instead ( or shorten the 4x and add some 5x / 6x ).

That formula works OK for me whether using dries or nymphs or wets/streamers. I feel it gives good turnover. Others may be more particular.

I like 9' leaders for most fishing. (I don't like wading very deep).
If the water is 3' deep - I hear to put an indicator 1 1/2 to 2x the depth of the water - so that would be at about 6'. But for me, mostly ( 70% ) I don't use an indicator if I'm fishing pretty closely (i.e. 'high sticking' or 'tuck casting'). If I'm fishing out farther, I do use an indicator ( or a dry ) for nymphing and sometimes lengthen the leader up to 12' by adding some 4x or 5x or even 6x ( as thinner tippet sinks faster IMO ).

 

[Corndog]

Pete and Sib,

What knot are you using to tie the sections together?

Cdog

 

[Pete]

Attached is a scan of the leader formula's from McClane's.

Like The_Sib, I also like to use the 9', 3X leader as a "base". For 4X, I cut the 3X back to 6" and add a 4X tippet, for 5X cut the 4X back to 6" and add the 5X tippet, and so forth....

For 6 weight and heavier lines, I often add some 0.020" material between the line and the leader butt.

Of course I often end up with a leader somewhat longer than 9 feet.

C-Dog:
I use the blood knot. I like the way you can make a dropper that stands perpendicular to the leader by simply leaving a tag end long. There are plenty of other knots that will serve just as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE: The attached was scanned from a copywritten book. I believe that's "fair use" but I'm not a lawyer. I'm willing to remove it if Dennis (or anyone else) has a problem.

 

[Corndog]

Pete,

Are you tying as many as 7 blood knots to make the leader?

Cdog

 

[coolkyle]

Are you tying as many as 7 blood knots to make the leader?

Cdog

In my knotted leaders, I find the blood knot makes sense with the first few knots after the nail knot, then I switch to double surgeon's knots after about 2x. I don't like to spend hours tying leaders, usually have a butt section and mid-section tied on that I use for weeks even months. Will have to try the blood knot tag dropper, though, seems like it would cast nicer than with the surgeon's knot.

 

[Pete]

Pete,

Are you tying as many as 7 blood knots to make the leader?

Cdog

Yes, but sometimes I'll "nail knot" the first (semi-permanent) butt section to the line, and use perfection loops to make a loop-to loop connection between the butt sections.

It makes it easier to change leaders stream-side.

 

[The_Sib]

Since I use loops,

I tie up a perfection loop to attach the leader to the line.
I have used both Uni-knots and Blood knots in joining the leader together.
Lately, Im tending to use more blood knots
thats because the "tags' are at right angles to the knot
as opposed to at the ends, pointing fore and aft in the Uni-knot.
I feel it provides less "catch" against the rod guides when reeling in " da FEESH"

Oh, and I coat the knots with UV-Knot-sense, too.

I build up 7'6" 3x base leaders and put them in my leader wallet, so I only have to tie up a few knots streamside.
After awhile, I usually have some 9 footers to re-use.
OK, I gotta look carefully so I can tell 4x vs 5x tippet sections but usually early in the season, they're mostly 4x

I use the leader-wallet printout page from LeaderCalc and customize the length/size section to show me what I tied up.