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No More Chuck & Duck on the Salmon River?

bkill

Quest for the Two Headed Trout
Fly-fishing: Traditionalists should approve of DEC 'chuck-and-duck' ban
Thursday, February 28, 2008

Morgan Lyle

Beginning Oct. 1, you may start seeing something along the fly-fishing-only zones of the Salmon River that, so far, you haven’t seen very often: back casts.
The Department of Environmental Conservation is poised to rid the fly zones of “chuck-and-duck” fishing, which employs large amounts of split shot or similar sinkers, and basically converts a fly rod to a kind of plug-casting rig. Only true fly-fishing — casting the line, not the lure — will be allowed.
Generations of anglers after steelheads and salmon on the Lake Ontario tributary have considered heavy sinkers necessary to get their flies to the bottom of deep pools where the fish lie.
The split shot also enabled an alternate way of casting: You gather in your slack, raise the rod tip over your left shoulder, snap it forward, lobbing your sinkers and fly into the current. This works even when you’re pinned up against a wooded bank with no room for a back cast, or when you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with other anglers, which are both fairly common occurrences on the Salmon River.
Of course, if a pool is ringed with anglers lobbing “slinkies” — three-inch lengths of parachute cord stuffed with split shot and clipped to the leader — then real fly-fishing is going to be difficult, if not impossible. Getting a fly near the bottom of an eight-foot-deep pool, even when using a sinking fly line, requires casting well upstream of the target lie. That’s not possible in crowded conditions. Chuck-and-duck fishing leads to crowding, and crowding makes chuck-and-duck necessary.
And, of course, all those flies dragged to the bottom by all that weight cause lots of foul-hooking. For a significant percentage of chuck-and-duck anglers, that’s the whole idea. They’re convinced salmon and steelhead seldom, if ever, bite, and believe snagging them is the only way to catch them.
All that ends in the fly zones on Oct. 1. You’ll still be allowed to use weighted flies and weight on your leader, the way you would nymph-fish a trout stream, but you won’t be allowed to use weight to the extent that it becomes “the primary means of propelling the cast.”
In other words, you have to cast the line, with the fly going along for the ride, which is the basic defin*ition of fly-fishing.
At first, I imagined an uproar in the parking lots when anglers who drove all night from Pennsylvania or Massachusetts are told they can’t use their slinkies. Indeed, there have been a handful of complaints to the DEC about banning chuck-and-duck from the fly-fishing-only water.
But overall, the trend on the Salmon River’s fly zones has been toward traditional fly-fishing, back cast and all, according to Fran Verdoliva, the Salmon River program coordinator for the DEC.
“You see less and less people in that particular section using the running line, strip-casting technique,” Verdoliva said. “You see people using some weight, but still able to roll cast or overhead cast.”
I wondered about how the rule would be enforced, since the new regulation doesn’t say specifically how much weight is allowed. Verdoliva said DEC law enforcement officers know the difference between chuck-and-duck casting and trad*itional roll casts or overhead casts. As he noted, the difference in the two techniques is pretty obvious.
What about the catching? Is it possible to catch bottom-oriented salmon and steelhead with traditional fly-fishing gear and tactics? You bet. There has always been a small group of Salmon River anglers who fish that way. They catch their share of fish, and while they probably hook up less often than chuck-and-duckers, they probably find the fish they do catch more rewarding.
“There have been a couple of people who’ve contacted me through the department and said, ‘I won’t be able to fish anymore,’ ” Verdoliva said. “To put it bluntly, that’s kind of stupid. If that’s the only way you can fish, you’re pretty limited.”
And as Verdoliva, a former Salmon River guide who still enjoys chuck-and-duck fishing sometimes, pointed out, if you simply must chuck and duck, you’ll have 12 miles of river on which to do it. Meanwhile, those of us who really want to fly-fish will finally be able to.
By the way, during the summer, weight will continue to be banned altogether from the Salmon River’s fly zones, in order to provide fair chase for summer-run steelheads and Atlantic salmon.
Most people think of the Salmon River as being a fall, winter and
early spring fishery, but the summer species are becoming more common, and people who know how to fish for them are having success, Verdoliva said.
“It doesn’t sound like much, but we had 20 Atlantics here come to the hatchery this fall,” he said. “We’ve never had any at all before.”
 
Hurray!!! :applaudit

First the fly zones then the rest of the river!


There has always been a small group of Salmon River anglers who fish that way. They catch their share of fish, and while they probably hook up less often than chuck-and-duckers, they probably find the fish they do catch more rewarding.

Uhhhh...yea! More rewarding cause their not hooked in the ass!!!


“It doesn’t sound like much, but we had 20 Atlantics here come to the hatchery this fall,” he said. “We’ve never had any at all before.”

All right! Atlantics come on in! If only they could make them C&R.

Thanks bkill, this post made my day!

Cdog<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
 
I might even try hitting one of the fly zones. They always look so crowded and seems to be a lot of lining ect. going on. I've always fished the regular sections.
 
That's great news, but what about the rest of the river? I have fly fished where the "KERR-PLUNKERS" fish too. This is where the worst atrocities are committed.

Does this mean no bead head nymphs- at all?
I don't ever remember seeing a salmon or steelhead rising to a dry here. :rofl:

What about fishing with the Kelly Galloup method? Can an angler use a full sinking fly line with unweighted flies?

And exactly how does one go about putting a fly "down" where the fish are with no weight? Streamers with diving plastic spoons sticking out the nose? BARF

Perhaps, just perhaps, the regulations aren't going to amount to a hill of beans unless we can get Brookfield to let some water out so DEC can open the LFZ to be fished at all.

HMMMMMMMMM


The Bottom line: SPORTSMANSHIP
I don't care if I use a LITTLE added weight. I always have a back cast & my terminal tackle doesn't make a "Kerr-plunk" sound when it hits the water.

WHAT I DO CARE IS THAT MY FISH IS HOOKED INSIDE THE MOUTH NOT IN THE BACK-TAIL OR WORST OF ALL ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE MOUTH.

I sure hope this regulation doesn't lead to the exclusive need of a 2 handed rod to get the drift required to fair-hook a fish.

My 2 cents.

See you on the DSR, DoubleHaul
</IMG>
 
That's great news, but what about the rest of the river? I have fly fished where the "KERR-PLUNKERS" fish too. This is where the worst atrocities are committed.

Does this mean no bead head nymphs- at all?
I don't ever remember seeing a salmon or steelhead rising to a dry here. :rofl:

What about fishing with the Kelly Galloup method? Can an angler use a full sinking fly line with unweighted flies?

And exactly how does one go about putting a fly "down" where the fish are with no weight? Streamers with diving plastic spoons sticking out the nose? BARF

Perhaps, just perhaps, the regulations aren't going to amount to a hill of beans unless we can get Brookfield to let some water out so DEC can open the LFZ to be fished at all.

HMMMMMMMMM


The Bottom line: SPORTSMANSHIP
I don't care if I use a LITTLE added weight. I always have a back cast & my terminal tackle doesn't make a "Kerr-plunk" sound when it hits the water.

WHAT I DO CARE IS THAT MY FISH IS HOOKED INSIDE THE MOUTH NOT IN THE BACK-TAIL OR WORST OF ALL ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE MOUTH.

I sure hope this regulation doesn't lead to the exclusive need of a 2 handed rod to get the drift required to fair-hook a fish.

My 2 cents.

See you on the DSR, DoubleHaul
</IMG>

DH,

You hit the nail on the head. "Fish hooked inside the mouth".

The DEC is not trying to stop the use of weighted lines, splitshot on the line, or weighted flies. Their trying to stop the guys that fish with cannonballs and the lift at some point in the drift which hooks the fish somewhere other than inside the mouth.

We all know why the DEC closed the LFZ last year. Not to stop sportsmen from fly fishing, to stop the snaggers from ripping the fish from the river over and over again. It would have been a slaughter house.

I overheard a ranger up there one day say, "Bring the fish to the fly, not the fly to the fish." as he was taking 3 guys off the river and to the court house. That makes so much sense..as well it should...it's called fishing.

Cdog
 
I understand the intent of the law. My concern is 50 differing interpretations of the non-specific verbage in the law by 50 different EOC's who don't understand fishing only citation quotas.

And yes, the EOC's and all other cops are judged by their peers & supervisors by the amount of paper they dispense.
 
I understand the intent of the law. My concern is 50 differing interpretations of the non-specific verbage in the law by 50 different EOC's who don't understand fishing only citation quotas.

And yes, the EOC's and all other cops are judged by their peers & supervisors by the amount of paper they dispense.


Hey DH, right or wrong, if you're gonna play eventually you're gonna pay.

One day years back in the DSR I got tired of catching salmon and went for a walk. I found a little off chute and saw fish rising. I had one of my dry fly boxes in my vest so I tied on an Ausable Wulff and managed to land 4 little salmon or steelhead smolts. Then I see Connie walking up to me shaking her head. I said "What!". She said, our rules state you must use a swivel and weight (the old days). You can pretty much imagine what I said. Then she asked me to leave.

Cdog
 
I think it is great news. Dont get me wrong I started to Chuck and Duck while learning the river. The guides taught me that way over 10yrs ago and I have been successful doing it. The right way I might add. Not lifting. Were talking dead drifting. Regardless of if you consider it right or wrong it is deadly if done right. Anyway, those days are over because Im now going to exclusivley fish for them by swinging flies. Just bought my 12'6 6wt and cant wait to get up there for dropbacks in April. Yippeee. Good luck.
 
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