New goodies for my arsenal

[sneelhead]

new to this fly fishing thing. my trusty PH, HE, and egg patterns stopped working so I did some research and added these to my somewhat growing collection. Nothing out of the ordinary here but thought I'd get some feedback from you guys.

Lets see..from the top; zebra midges, rainbow warriors, a black gnat, little black stones, loop wing BWOs, some quill nymphs, buggers, black PH nymphs, couple quill emergers, grey rs2, BWO soft hackles, black elk hair caddis'

fishing everything wet..i usually fish the pissquest but crowds will prob be stupid this weekend so im going to do some exploring.

basic pointers are much appreciated. i'll prob run one of the larger nymps as a base fly then play with different trailers using all the small stuff. did i miss anything obvious?

 

[G Lech]

Those flies will work! All of them!

The rs-2 and Barr emerger will be good behind larger nymph.

The stone flys have been around and that elk hair caddis has been working well for me.

I also see what looks like a black soft hackle that will produce on the swing.

 

[sneelhead]

Those flies will work! All of them!

The rs-2 and Barr emerger will be good behind larger nymph.

The stone flys have been around and that elk hair caddis has been working well for me.

I also see what looks like a black soft hackle that will produce on the swing.

Thanks! What is a rule of thumb for rigging these diff types of flies? Im only familiar with bottom bouncing nymphs and your basic tandem rig that keeps everything fairly close to the bottom. In other words, can you trail soft hackles behind a nymph? or should soft hackles be drifted and swung on their own just below the surface? basically, im not sure which flies to keep off the bottom because my first instinct is to trail everything behind a big nymph. I like mixing it up and fishing multiple flies but i don't want to mix and match improperly.

im eager to learn as i plan to get out after work for an hour before sunset today, its overcast and hopefully there will be some bugs around. Excuse my ignorance, im still very new to this!

 

[JeffK]

There is no such thing as mix and match improperly - this is a game of experimention. Basically, you want to put the fly where the fish are.

Most of the time the fish are on the bottom, so you fish tandem weighted nymphs. If you trail a soft hackle behind the heavy nymph it will rise somewhat above the bottom. That may be the ticket when the nymphs are active and the fish are off the bottom. Tie the heavy nymph on the end and bottom bounce it on the bottom. Iif the leader is fairly vertical the soft hackle will be pretty much the tippet spacing above the bottom. This may be more like mid column - if the fish are mid column you have done the right thing. Can even space it so the soft hackle is right near the surface.

Soft hackles were originally meant to fish near the surface. If you really want to fish near the surface tie on a pair of unweighted flies. Soft hackles and emergers are good, but tiny unweighted nymphs, like a hare's ear, have their day near the surface too.

Putting the fly where the fish is forms the standard theory, but in your playing around you will find rigs you are just more comfortable fishing. You will end up with those rigs on the end of your leader more often, but it's a sport and you should do what you like. No need to be bored to tears, even if something you hate to do is working for someone else. Some people like dries, some people like European nymphing, some people like indicators - others don't, some people love traditional wet flies. Fly fishing is a big tent, but the more ways you know how to fish the more situations you can cover.

 

[sneelhead]

There is no such thing as mix and match improperly - this is a game of experimention. Basically, you want to put the fly where the fish are.

Most of the time the fish are on the bottom, so you fish tandem weighted nymphs. If you trail a soft hackle behind the heavy nymph it will rise somewhat above the bottom. That may be the ticket when the nymphs are active and the fish are off the bottom. Tie the heavy nymph on the end and bottom bounce it on the bottom. Iif the leader is fairly vertical the soft hackle will be pretty much the tippet spacing above the bottom. This may be more like mid column - if the fish are mid column you have done the right thing. Can even space it so the soft hackle is right near the surface.

Soft hackles were originally meant to fish near the surface. If you really want to fish near the surface tie on a pair of unweighted flies. Soft hackles and emergers are good, but tiny unweighted nymphs, like a hare's ear, have their day near the surface too.

Putting the fly where the fish is forms the standard theory, but in your playing around you will find rigs you are just more comfortable fishing. You will end up with those rigs on the end of your leader more often, but it's a sport and you should do what you like. No need to be bored to tears, even if something you hate to do is working for someone else. Some people like dries, some people like European nymphing, some people like indicators - others don't, some people love traditional wet flies. Fly fishing is a big tent, but the more ways you know how to fish the more situations you can cover.

great info thanks

what is the most effective way to rig an emerger with a nymph so that the nymph stays on the bottom and emerger stays near the surface? im having a hard time picturing it with variable current speeds and tippet length, etc.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

great info thanks

what is the most effective way to rig an emerger with a nymph so that the nymph stays on the bottom and emerger stays near the surface? im having a hard time picturing it with variable current speeds and tippet length, etc.

Depends on the emerger fly itself. For example, if you're using a caddis emerger like a LaFontain sparkle pupa, you can grease the wing (usually some deer hair) and tie it behind a weighted nymph of your choice and it will try to float to the surface, looking like a natural. For other emergers, you might want to tie them to the end of your leader/tippet and tie a weighted fly off the hook bend of your emerger. As JeffK said, mix and match. Different days will bring different results.

Looks like you stopped by Shannon's

 

[sneelhead]

Depends on the emerger fly itself. For example, if you're using a caddis emerger like a LaFontain sparkle pupa, you can grease the wing (usually some deer hair) and tie it behind a weighted nymph of your choice and it will try to float to the surface, looking like a natural. For other emergers, you might want to tie them to the end of your leader/tippet and tie a weighted fly off the hook bend of your emerger. As JeffK said, mix and match. Different days will bring different results.

Looks like you stopped by Shannon's

yup. Don at Shannon's has been a huge help to me ever since i started frequenting there last fall.

I've been catching the tail end of an olive hatch everyday after work. im being all OCD about rigging because i only have a 45min-1hr on the water before it gets dark so naturally i want to maximize my results. Fish are surface feeding periodically at this time but from what Ive observed, my best bet is swinging soft hackles and emergers in the film. Bottom bouncing nymphs all week has yielded no results. Lastnight i struck out on dead drifting but hooked into a big bow on a swinging bwo softhackle in tail water. he spit the hook but atleast im making progress.

for the sake of conversation, i wonder if rigging a softhackle up front with a weight nymph trailer will effect the natural presentation of the soft fly on the swing. the fish are really spooked with this low water id like to maximize my presentation. with exception to these denser caddis emergers, i'm definitely going to try trailing the weighted nymph behind the emerger. if i can get the spacing right, id effectively be able to fish the top and bottom of the collumn.

cant wait till tomorrow

 

[JeffK]

I'll make another comment about those risers people are having trouble with. IMHO, the big thing is presentation and getting the fly to go over the fish. Dead drift is less important in my mind than getting the fly over the fish. A dragging fly by the fish's nose is more likely to work than a dead drifted out of its line of sight.

Therefore, when you see a rise take very careful note of where the fish rises. Note a bubble line, a rock, a hanging branch or some other mark you can use as a target. It is very easy to think you know where the fish rose but not be dead on once the rise form disappears. Take careful note of the rise so you can hit the spot with no indications. Bubble lines are a real help and learning to use them will help your fishing progress. The lanes where the bubbles get concentrated are also the lanes where the bugs will concentrate.

If your casting is not spot one, then swinging may be a way to get the fly in front of the fish - just bias the cast to the far side because you can only let it swing towards you. One dry fly trick is the cast in a little more upstream and a little farther away than where you would place a perfect cast. Lift the rod and let the fly swing into the right lane, and then drop your rod to create some slack to let it dead drift in the right path.

The fish may feed on the bottom more, but it may be harder to catch them with a sunken fly. When they are rising you know where they are, you are likely to have clues what they are eating, and you get feedback on how your fly presentation was. For nymphing the bottom you rarely have any of that and need to imagine where the fish is and exactly how your nymph is drifting. It takes practice and concentration. Personally, when I am "in the zone" nymphing is a killer technique. But if I lose concentration and fall back to "chuck and chance it" I get bored to tears and my success rate goes tonear zero. Nymphing can be very tough.

 

[jcstikfish]

did i miss anything obvious?

Hey Sneel,

I would like to see a few caddis larva imitations in there. Olive, "insect" green, dark green, white and tan in sizes 12-16. Simple rabbit hair dubbed bodies with peacock herl heads/legs work great, and are quick and simple ties.

~James

 

[sneelhead]

Hey Sneel,

I would like to see a few caddis larva imitations in there. Olive, "insect" green, dark green, white and tan in sizes 12-16. Simple rabbit hair dubbed bodies with peacock herl heads/legs work great, and are quick and simple ties.

~James

agreed. i haven't given much thought to caddis patterns..all ive been hearing about are these bwo and stonefly hatches of late. i have some caddis larva patters in my box, mostly small sizes 16-18 that bright insect green. I think i may try one up front as the lead fly..at the very least it would provide some flash to catch the fish's attention. they gave me great results when the river was high and chocolatey earlier this year. now that u mention it..i picked up a bunch of live caddis larvae on my hooks last night when i was swinging flys near the bottom..

will def throw them into the mix

BTW Thanks everyone this thread turned out way better than i thought it would