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Mountain Lion Attack

I certainly think there are some cougars making their way into some of these areas, especially near the Canadian border (they've been documenting wolves, by roadkill, etc. that have ventured into remote Maine and NH for the past decade or so.) I might be one of the few that actually smiles at the thought of it. But I don't think any state wildlife agencies are trying to hide anything. There has been no physical evidence (tracks, hair, scat, a friggin' dead cougar) associated with these sightings so they can't be legitimized until that happens. The cougars reported on the loose in NJ and southeastern PA were released or escaped captive animals.

With the wolves in Maine and NH the sighting were reported for years and years before they finally confirmed one with physical evidence to legitimize the years of claimed sightings, no matter how reputable the person or descriptions were.

Ryan,

NJ has the proof. One was hit by a car and killed 3 years ago on River Road in Montague. I was there, I saw it along with 2 others, and watched the ranger put it in the back of his truck. He wouldn't admit that it was a cougar. But, we're not idiots. We know what we saw. Just out of curiosity, I called the rangers offices at Stokes and High Point and asked if there were cougars in the parks cause I was thinking about camping and hiking there and they told me there is no evidence that cougars are in NJ. I lived in south Texas where mountain lions are numerous for 11 years. Even saw them run across the flight line on Laughlin AFB. They were video taped by Air Traffic Control. You cound even go on a guided lion hunt if you wanted to.

Their here...it's just a matter of time before it becomes public knowledge.

Pat,

I think you deserve an award for the best post on NEFF so far. That one had me rolling. :rofl:

Cdog
 
Ryan,

NJ has the proof. One was hit by a car and killed 3 years ago on River Road in Montague. I was there, I saw it along with 2 others, and watched the ranger put it in the back of his truck. He wouldn't admit that it was a cougar. But, we're not idiots. We know what we saw. Just out of curiosity, I called the rangers offices at Stokes and High Point and asked if there were cougars in the parks cause I was thinking about camping and hiking there and they told me there is no evidence that cougars are in NJ. I lived in south Texas where mountain lions are numerous for 11 years. Even saw them run across the flight line on Laughlin AFB. They were video taped by Air Traffic Control. You cound even go on a guided lion hunt if you wanted to.

Their here...it's just a matter of time before it becomes public knowledge.

Pat,

I think you deserve an award for the best post on NEFF so far. That one had me rolling. :rofl:

Cdog

OK, I didn't say there were no mountian lions in Jersey. I said they were escaped or released captives. You need more than one roadkill to even begin to confirm a WILD, breeding population. If NJ is denying it then there's really no proof, at least from a public standpoint. If several of you saw it and know they covered it up, why didn't you go public? Not to be insulting or try to belittle your knowledge but are you sure it wasn't a bobcat?

I'm not sure what Texas has to do with a cougar in NJ but I certainly am not denying that wild cougars exist in the Southwest, including Texas. I already was well aware of it. Did you know that Jaguars are in remote parts of the southwest US, crossing the border? They've caught them on film and no one has covered it up.
 
OK, I didn't say there were no mountian lions in Jersey. I said they were escaped or released captives. You need more than one roadkill to even begin to confirm a WILD, breeding population. If NJ is denying it then there's really no proof, at least from a public standpoint. If several of you saw it and know they covered it up, why didn't you go public? Not to be insulting or try to belittle your knowledge but are you sure it wasn't a bobcat?

I'm not sure what Texas has to do with a cougar in NJ but I certainly am not denying that wild cougars exist in the Southwest, including Texas. I already was well aware of it. Did you know that Jaguars are in remote parts of the southwest US, crossing the border? They've caught them on film and no one has covered it up.

Ryan,

I brought up the lions in Texas just to make the point that I know what one looks like very well. I've seen them in the wild more than 50 times. I used to bass fish Lake Amistad, Delrio, TX. and they would come to the lake to drink water.

The park service is denying that they exist even though they know that they do. The mother of this yearling was reported many times to them for killing cats, goats, chickens, etc. The park service went as far as to mark off an area along the Deleware with police tape and studied the lion's den for a while. Everyone who lived in the area was asked to keep away from it and keep quite about it. Without going into too much detail here, the one that was killed was a yearling of the mother they were observing. I think they were trying to determine if it had become a resident or was just passing through.

Don't worry, I'm not insulted by your comments. So don't be insulted when I ask you what your level of authority on lions in NJ is? You type like an expert on the issue.

Cdog
 
In case you were wondering about my authority on the subject..
I saw Disney's The Lion King.


Loved it!!
 
Ryan,

The mother of this yearling was reported many times to them for killing cats, goats, chickens, etc. The park service went as far as to mark off an area along the Deleware with police tape and studied the lion's den for a while. Everyone who lived in the area was asked to keep away from it and keep quite about it. Without going into too much detail here, the one that was killed was a yearling of the mother they were observing. I think they were trying to determine if it had become a resident or was just passing through.

Cdog

No newspaper reported about this?
 
My neighbor claims to have seen one last winter. He seems like a very sane, honest person. Anyway, our dogs were all acting very strange for awhile. Fish and Game told him it was probly just a coyote w mange. Yes, a bald coyote looks just like a big cat.
I lean more towards the theory of an escaped cat rather than natural migration. Why would anyone or anything move INTO NJ?

lh
 
My neighbor claims to have seen one last winter. He seems like a very sane, honest person. Anyway, our dogs were all acting very strange for awhile. Fish and Game told him it was probly just a coyote w mange. Yes, a bald coyote looks just like a big cat.
I lean more towards the theory of an escaped cat rather than natural migration. Why would anyone or anything move INTO NJ?

lh

lol The longer I'm here the more I wonder that myself. :dizzy: Those 2 must have been confused and thought they were still in the Poconos.

FF, I've probably said more than I should have already. Since we were all told to keep our mouths shut by an NJ State Ranger.

Cdog
 
Ryan,

I brought up the lions in Texas just to make the point that I know what one looks like very well. I've seen them in the wild more than 50 times. I used to bass fish Lake Amistad, Delrio, TX. and they would come to the lake to drink water.

The park service is denying that they exist even though they know that they do. The mother of this yearling was reported many times to them for killing cats, goats, chickens, etc. The park service went as far as to mark off an area along the Deleware with police tape and studied the lion's den for a while. Everyone who lived in the area was asked to keep away from it and keep quite about it. Without going into too much detail here, the one that was killed was a yearling of the mother they were observing. I think they were trying to determine if it had become a resident or was just passing through.

Don't worry, I'm not insulted by your comments. So don't be insulted when I ask you what your level of authority on lions in NJ is? You type like an expert on the issue.

Cdog

I'm not claiming to be an authority on them, I'm a layman same as you on it. I don't think anything I've written makes me sound like an expert, just that I know how to write well- and LOL I should be able to otherwise my degree isn't worth much! (before that I actually began my studies intent on becoming a wildlife biologist) I also did quite a bit of research on the topic of eastern cougar sightings, especially after I felt I saw one in remote NH.

Solitary animals people have sighted don't just pop up, they come from somewhere and we haven't found any wild, breeding populaton to produce these animals. The more plausible scenario, and this has been proven in certain cases in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, is that the animal is likely an escaped or released captive. In other words, if their was a momma and yearlings then there had to be a father, and mommy and daddy had to come from their own "parents." So if they were indeed wild cougars up in Montague you'd have to look to find the nearest sustainable breeding population and see if it's plausible those animals migrated or spread from there. In other words, you'd probably expect to have more than one roadkill or confirmed, proven sighting over the years.

Several years ago there were numerous reports in neighboring communities in Southeast PA about cougars. The cougar sightings were mostly near homes and more open populated areas and some of the behavior reported led investigators to believe they were released or escaped captives. I'm not sure if that was ever proven beyond just an educated assumption although I think it was I just don't remember exactly how I believe they have used blood and hair samples to prove other sightings were originally captives.
 
No newspaper reported about this?

I read about the sightings in southern NJ and in southeast PA in newspapers but don't recall ever reading about an alleged roadkilled cougar and a den in Montague. All these people living in that area kept quiet about it just because the State asked them to? That would be a first. Docile sheep?

If I recall correctly from my research days there are/were two main groups that had websites and kept a database of reported sightings or roadkills and the circumstances and details of each. The information available was pretty neat and interesting. I think one was called something like Eastern Cougar Alliance or close to that. Admittedly, I haven't significantly researched this stuff in about 8 years though.
 
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If I recall correctly from my research days there are/were two main groups that had websites and kept a database of reported sightings or roadkills and the circumstances and details of each. The information available was pretty neat and interesting. I think one was called something like Eastern Cougar Alliance or close to that. Admittedly, I haven't significantly researched this stuff in about 8 years though.

One site I found a while back: Trackin' Cats


This is a long-running thread that appeared in a Google search back in May when I was first looking into this.

Cronaca: Mountain lions in NJ? Just wait. . .

Then there's the Eastern Cougar Foundation.

And Eastern Puma Research, which tracks sightings.
 
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<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" http:="" www.njflyfishing.com="" vbulletin="" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype> I am not saying there couldn’t be cougars in NJ or NY but with 1000s of hunter’s trail cameras in the woods, a lot of those year round, and the heavy use of our public lands by hunters, fishermen, hikers, bikers, etc……Why aren’t there any pictures???....Also one of my best friends works for the NJDFW Wildlife Control (he is currently in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1>Iraq</st1></st1:country-region>)..He responds to bears complaints as well as cougar sightings and has told me that he has yet to find evidence of a cougar at any of the calls he has responded to…
<o></o>
That being said, three years ago, I was deer hunting along the Dry Brook Ridge in the Catskills and had what I thought was a black bear 30 yards from me…I had him in my scope when I realized, it wasn’t a bear…It looked like a coyote on steroids...I let the yote go not wanting to scare off the large buck I was hunting…That night I was retelling my story at my favorite watering hole and one of the gentlemen was a local trapper...He said it was a timber wolf…And he showed me pics of half a dozen he took over the last few years in the same area…I reached out to the NY DEC and they wouldn’t deny or acknowledge the presence of timber wolves in the Catskills…
 
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lol The longer I'm here the more I wonder that myself. :dizzy: Those 2 must have been confused and thought they were still in the Poconos.

FF, I've probably said more than I should have already. Since we were all told to keep our mouths shut by an NJ State Ranger.

Cdog

Are you worried that the Black Ops Forest Rangers are going to:

slip Timber Rattlers into your car?
revoke your hunting license?
release 200 pheasants in your house?
electro shock the waters you fish every time, ten minutes before you get there?

WWAKSD? ;)
 
One site I found a while back: Trackin' Cats


This is a long-running thread that appeared in a Google search back in May when I was first looking into this.

Cronaca: Mountain lions in NJ? Just wait. . .

Then there's the Eastern Cougar Foundation.

And Eastern Puma Research, which tracks sightings.

Yup, just about positive those were the two I was thinking of; Eastern Puma Research and Eastern Cougar Foundation. Now that I see the proper name in print I definitely remember Eastern Puma Research.
 
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:smarttagtype class=inlineimg title=Embarrassment smilieid="3" alt="" border="0" redface.gif="" smilies="" images="" vbulletin="" www.njflyfishing.com="" http:="" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com
vBulletin
</o:smarttagtype> I am not saying there couldn’t be cougars in NJ or NY but with 1000s of hunter’s trail cameras in the woods, a lot of those year round, and the heavy use of our public lands by hunters, fishermen, hikers, bikers, etc……Why aren’t there any pictures???Exactly my thoughts, they would be far more easily found in NJ, if wild cougars were present in any number, than say the vast Adirondacks.

I reached out to the NY DEC and they wouldn’t deny or acknowledge the presence of timber wolves in the Catskills… That was the approach the ranger in the White Mountains Nat'l Forest had when he took my report of a wolf sighting there. He didn't deny the possibilty of their presence but wouldn't confirm it either but he was sure to take my report thoroughly and sounded quite interested.

It's sure an interesting discussion.

Speaking of coyotes, I just saw another coyote this morning. It was standing near the shoulder of the 206 South on-ramp to Route 80 East near the Trade Zone in Mt Olive Twp., NJ. I saw a similarly-colored one a few weeks ago standing in the open in broad daylight at Waterloo, which is nearby.
 
Are you worried that the Black Ops Forest Rangers are going to:

slip Timber Rattlers into your car?
revoke your hunting license?
release 200 pheasants in your house?
electro shock the waters you fish every time, ten minutes before you get there?

WWAKSD? ;)

FF, lol Actually it would be more serious than that. Think about what I'm saying. Maybe re-read my posts. I won't comment any further on the issue.

Ryan, I did report the first one I saw in Stillwater on the Paulinskill. Was treated like an idiot on the phone. Park Service flat out called me a liar.

Cdog
 
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HOW 'bout them Puddy-Cats....

Three days and almost 800 views!

Looks like trout fishing is over for most now.

As always, not interested in Delaware Flow Rates or ani-mules!
Dare I say... dead or alive???!!!

AK Skim
 
HOW 'bout them Puddy-Cats....

Three days and almost 800 views!

Looks like trout fishing is over for most now.

As always, not interested in Delaware Flow Rates or ani-mules!
Dare I say... dead or alive???!!!

AK Skim

How about aliens? Saw one fly fishing the other day on the BFB. Is that OT enough for you?

Cdog
 
FF, lol Actually it would be more serious than that. Think about what I'm saying. Maybe re-read my posts. I won't comment any further on the issue.

Ryan, I did report the first one I saw in Stillwater on the Paulinskill. Was treated like an idiot on the phone. Park Service flat out called me a liar.

Cdog

LOL, but I still can't understand your worry over the ranger even after re-reading you posts but that's your decision. I wouldn't exactly say you've kept quiet though, after all there have been over 800 views of all of our comments here! These kinds of things can spread from a forum into a newspaper or something. Watch your back, the ranger's gonna get ya now! :D

Probably more credibility in a personal report rather than a phone call, at least that's my opinion. Might have had better luck contacting the NJDFW over the park service on the P'kill, since it's not NPS land. That's a shame they treated you like they did, I had good experiecne when I went to the ranger station in the White Mountains. Different leadership I guess.

Trout fishing's not done for me, hitting Spring Creek all day tomorrow. I'll be in town there for the PATU Fall Membership Meeting. Hope to hit it or Fishing Creek again on Sunday with better flows after Saturday's rain.
 
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The latest press release from the PGC regarding the recent reported mountain lion attack:

Release #119-08

GAME COMMISSION RELEASES LATEST TEST RESULTS OF ALLEGED MOUNTAIN LION ATTACK

HARRISBURG - In announcing the most recent results of its ongoing investigation into an alleged mountain lion attack on Oct. 9, Pennsylvania Game Commission officials today announced tests conducted on a knife allegedly used by Samuel Fisher, 42, of Sadsbury Township, Lancaster County, were positive for human blood. The tests were conducted by East Stroudsburg University in Monroe County.

On Oct. 20, the Game Commission announced that tests conducted by the Pennsylvania State Police Crime Lab determined that samples collected from multiple sites the scene of the alleged attack tested negative for blood. Further tests are being conducted by the State Police Crime Lab to determine what the substance is.

Game Commission officials were called to an area of Mount Pleasant Road, when Fisher alleged to have shot one large cat and then was attacked and injured by a second large cat on Oct. 9.

A Pennsylvania State Police helicopter was brought into the area to search for the presence of the alleged animal using a FLIR Infrared Thermal Imaging Camera. Search dogs specifically trained to find and follow the trail of cats detected no cat activity in the area other than a small house cat.

Game Commission officers gathered numerous samples at the scene alleged to be blood. Samples collected from multiple sites at the incident, including the alleged blood trail, area where Fisher allegedly shot the animal and where Fisher allegedly fought with the animal, all tested negative for blood by the State Police laboratory. At that time, chemical testing by the State Police Crime Lab did indicate the presence of blood on the knife that Fisher allegedly used to stab the animal, however, the lab also found that the knife contained deer hair.

Investigating officers announced that they found no evidence of mountain lion hair or scat or tracks at, around or in the vicinity of the alleged incident. The shirt that Fisher was wearing during the alleged attack contained no blood or any signs of dirt from a struggle with an animal on the ground.

Charges may be filed against Fisher for making false or fraudulent statements.

"The Pennsylvania Game Commission has no evidence of wild, breeding populations of large cats in Pennsylvania to date," said Doug Killough, Game Commission Southeast Region director. "With that in mind, we do acknowledge that numerous people do have exotic animals which escape or are released illegally. While this incident is considered to be a hoax, we will continue to investigate credible sightings or evidence of exotic wildlife."

To reiterate his point, Killough noted that, in the past 10 years, confirmed sightings of wallabies, wolf-hybrids, emus, alligators and other non-native exotic wildlife have been captured in the Southeast Region. Also, in 2002, charges were filed against a Dauphin County resident for illegal possession of a mountain lion that had been purchased in Virginia.
 
This is why you don't report a mountain lion sighting in the northeast. You could be arrested for making and false or fraudulent complaint.

Better be looking over your shoulder. They're out to get us. Hey, what was that. Gotta go.

Cdog
 
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Hum...that's the term I use when I see someone fishing my favorite spots.

Are you saying that if I was fishing a PA stream I could shoot them?

Cdog

Cdog,

Be careful...A good hunter always eats what he shoots.
 
Release #132-08

GAME COMMISSION CONFIRMS SERVAL KILLED IN CHESTER COUNTY

HARRISBURG - Pennsylvania Game Commission Wildlife Conservation Officers (WCOs) confirmed today that a serval, an exotic cat from Africa that resembles a small cheetah, was killed the evening of Nov. 25, along Garrett Mill Road in Willistown Township, Chester County.

Montgomery County WCO Chris Heil received a call from a farm manager for a local farm about an exotic cat that was in his chicken coop killing chickens. WCO Heil told, under state law, the farmer had the authority to kill the animal to protect his livestock.

Today, Chester County WCO Scott Frederick retrieved the carcass and transported it to the Southeast Region Office in Reading. The owner has been identified and an investigation has been opened regarding the lawful ownership of the animal.

To view a photo of the serval, please visit the Pennsylvania Game Commission - State Wildlife Management Agency website: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=11&Q=175514
 
Yum yum! A little soy sauce and wassabi and I'll eat them Sushi style.

Cdog

Oh Sure

You will eat Humans but when selflessly offer my world famous sausage stuffing recipe you run in the other direction.....

Sorry its 3:48am in Munich and of course I am done sleeping for the night so i need a distraction. On the plus side, I can finish working on my presentation which I have to give in about 6 hours
 
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