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Friends of The Delaware River

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dcabarle

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Friends of the Upper Delaware River

Hello All,

We would like to introduce you to the Friends of the Upper Delaware River, an all volunteer, advocacy organization dedicated to protecting one of the few wild trout fisheries remaining in the East - the now severely threatened, federally designated "Wild and Scenic" Upper Delaware River,
and its connecting, world famous, West Branch. These truly unique resources annually attract thousands of anglers from around the
world, contributing tens of millions of dollars to the local economies.

Detailed below are some of the new factors at play that could, in the near future, destroy this world class fishery, as well as, the
Friends' intended course of action to keep that from happening.

To appreciate the challenges now facing this unique resource, it is first necessary to understand how this fishery came to be. The
construction of dams along the Delaware created a cold water ecosystem affecting the river for miles, downstream from the dams. Wild trout and much of the aquatic insect life they depend upon for food, require
cold water to flourish or, often, even to survive. A warm water environment, that is, a water temperature approaching seventy degrees or more can be lethal for both trout and aquatic insects. Accordingly, cold water
releases are critical in maintaining both wild trout and a cold water ecosystem. Since certainly no one is suggesting the removal of
the dams, the threat to the fishery then comes from erratic releases, the amount of cold water released, the timing of those releases and the management of those releases.

Control of the dams, and of the releases that so drastically influence the upper Delaware, rests with New York City's Department of
Environmental Protection – a rather environmentally friendly name for what is, in reality, the City's Water Department. All of the reservoirs on the Upper Delaware are in New York State and under the City's sovereign control. Historically, from the time each of the three principal dams 'went on line', and with consistency, the City's DEP has disregarded efforts that would help to preserve, let alone enhance, this great resource. Still, somehow, the fishery did survive, and it did flourish – until now. Now there are new and lethal threats.

To understand these new threats, it is first necessary to understand a bit of history. In 1954, to settle a dispute over water between
the States of New York and New Jersey, the United States Supreme Court issued a decree. Perhaps the single key element in that decree, was the mandate that a minimum flow of 1750 cubic feet per second (cfs) be
maintained at a monitoring station located at Montague, New Jersey – far down River from the fishery. The Court left it to the various
states to decide how to regulate their respective resources to meet that requirement. In 1961, the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) was formed to regulate all of the various flows, entering the Delaware, from the four contiguous states. Each state, the Federal Government
and New York City has a representative on the Commission. New York City, like State Commissioners, can veto, with finality, any recommendation or proposal that comes before it. For over four decades, the New York City's DEP has, with near perfect consistency, vetoed any proposal that would be of help to the wild trout.

All of the above brings us to a chronicle of our most immediate concerns: The Subcommittee on Ecological Flows (SEF), a subcommittee of
the DRBC, has begun a fairly well publicized three to five year process intended to develop an overall flow plan for the entire Delaware basin.

A needed and highly commendable effort, and one in which the Friends of the Upper Delaware has offered to partner; that is to participate in those areas where there could be a mutual sharing of effort to the benefit of the entire basin. However, while we support and would participate in certain aspects of the overall concept, we do have
serious concerns regarding some of the processes as they relate specifically to the fishery. There is, in our opinion, a danger in that far too many people will rely on only superficial public information and assume this process will satisfactorily relieve the threats to the fishery. In reality, the wild trout fishery figures as just one rather
small aspect of a much greater, master plan. Still, even if the fishery were more prominent in this planning process, the basic premise, as it relates directly to the fishery, would seem seriously flawed. The
premise suggests that after years of studies, New York's DEP will reverse four decades of demonstrated disregard for the fishery and would accept, based on these studies, whatever 'flows' and releases may be proposed for the protection of the trout. Perhaps they will. But far more likely, history will again prove prologue and all such proposals will, in the final presentation, be vetoed by the DEP - leaving the fishery in considerably worse shape, years down the road, than it
is today.

Further, we strongly disagree with one recommended cornerstone of these studies, the currently promoted 'interim' 225 cfs flows that are to be put in place for the next three to five years while these studies are
being conducted. As you know, flows differ from releases in that they include all water (including warm water from tributaries, summer run off, rain, etc.) coming to the monitoring point (or flow target).

Releases account for only the critical cold water coming from the dams. The more warm water that is counted, the less cold water needs to be released to meet even the dangerous 225 cfs target. Such a low flow rate would have no cooling effect on water temperature even as close to the Cannonsville Dam as the Town of Hancock. Far more importantly, in a summer with high air temperatures, the meager 225 cfs flows
would prove lethal for both the trout and insect populations. It should also be
realized that the arguments for relying on the 225 flows are based on a seriously flawed 'study' done over two decades ago that was
never entirely implemented.

We also must strongly oppose, as is detailed in the Study Outline prepared for the Upper Delaware Ecological Flows Study (the master plan) this past October, the proposed remanaging, as warm water fisheries, the
Neversink River, down to the Town of Bridgeville, the East Branch of the Delaware from its confluence with the Beaverkill down to Hancock and the main stem from the Town of Hankins on down to Callicoon. All of these
waters have been cold water ecosystems and classic trout water for generations of anglers.

In addition to the threats posed to the wild trout fishery by some aspects of this planning process, Pennsylvania Power and Light's (PPL) new relicensing of its power generating plant on Lake Wallenpaupack will
release substantial quantities of water into the Lackawaxen River which, in turn, flows into the Delaware - far down stream of the fishery.

These new releases will be counted, especially during the critical summer months, toward the Supreme Court mandated 1750 cfs at
Montague. The inclusion of these new releases substantially reduces the amount of water the DEP has, until now, found necessary to release from Cannonsville in order to satisfy that Montague mandate.

Here again, we must also stop to take note. One of the arguments the DEP has consistently raised whenever challenged about regulated
releases for the fishery, is that if the City were indeed to provide enough water for the fish, seven million New Yorkers would be at risk in the event of a drought. In reality, the guaranteed 600 cfs release from the
Cannonsville Dam we are calling for (from May to September), is approximately the same, or less than, the averages for comparable month
to month periods for the past twenty-five years, indicating this is far more an issue of proper and guaranteed management than of
sufficient water.

It must be also pointed out that the DEP does have other options that, perhaps especially in these uncertain times, it should pursue. It could, for instance, repair the leaking aqueducts that waste an estimated 30 to 100 million gallons of fresh water each day, or it could provide a filtration system on the Hudson that would provide an additional 330 +
million gallons of clean water daily. And we must keep in mind that in the past twenty years, there have been only two actual droughts that have gone through the summer. And, of the eight drought 'warnings' – none of which reached the status of 'drought emergency' - that have occurred over the same period, three were in mid-September and the
remaining five were in late fall; in both cases, when warm water was not a threat to the fishery.

Although we certainly take issue with both some of the proposed aspects of the flow studies that are to be undertaken, and assuredly with the potential impact the new PPL releases will have on the fishery, the
focus for the Friends of the Upper Delaware River must clearly be addressing New York City's DEP. The DEP is the sovereign agency
actually controlling the releases and, accordingly, it is the agency we hope to
encourage into positive discussions and constructive changes.

Toward that end, our positions are clear and concise: To protect both the wild trout and the cold water ecosystem, we seek a guaranteed 600 cfs release, from the Cannonsville Reservoir, from May 15 to September 15th. Here we would also point out that this rate of release not only protects the fishery, it readily accommodates both wade and drift boat fishermen and in so doing protects local fishing related economies.
During the less critical winter months, from September 16th to May 14th, we seek a guaranteed flow of 300 cfs; adequate for preventing anchor ice and similar threatening problems. To prevent abrupt and dangerous
changes in release rates, we maintain that the transition times of these changes must be 'ramped' or gradually changed. We seek a
guarantee that the water temperature from Cannonsville downstream to Lordville, not
exceed 70 degrees at any time. We maintain that the new flows being released from the PPL power generating plant on Lake Wallenpaupack, should not be counted towards the Supreme Court mandate at Montague. We
maintain that, to prevent silt build up, the Cannonsville releases be augmented with releases from the East Branch when Cannonsville levels drop below thirty percent. Similarly, we call for the locating and correcting of silt entering the West Branch and the upper main stem from feeder streams. We call for the development of a mutually agreed to plan for proportional water release reductions during periods of
declared drought. We maintain that during periods of high water or air temperatures, spillage be offset with equal amounts of cold water releases. And finally, we maintain that current suggestions to remanage the waters described above be abandoned and, moreover, these waters safeguarded with guaranteed consistent releases.

As one of the Congressmen with whom the Friends already met pointed out, to challenge New York City, is to take on the proverbial 800 pound gorilla. Perhaps, but this is nonetheless an engagement we feel we must
undertake. We are asking for, and would very genuinely appreciate, your endorsement and your support.

Sincerely,
Craig Findley, President
Lee Hartman, Vice President
(315) 656-8313
(215) 679-5022
cfindleyff@netscape.net
leehrtmn@erols.com
 
Essentially they are asking for minimum releases over the course of the year equaling a volume of 96% of the capactiy of Cannonsiville (assuming I've done the math correctly - 1000 CFS per day is equal to about 2/3 of a percent of Cannonsville capacity, release at 600 CFS for 4 months and 300 CFS for 8 months)

Is there really enough water to do this in a typical year and preserve eoungh water for the two other to more important uses of resevior water ... drinking water for NYC and 2nd, flow minimums at Montague? (Lee sugggests that a flow of 600 CFS is close to the averages across the summer months for last 25 years. I'm wondering if he's including the excess water which will be needed at times typically in August in September to meet Montague Minimums under a proposed 600 minimu release? This will raise the average amount of water consumed over the summer months.. for example... instead of 2 months at 200 Release and 2 at 1000 CFS assuming this is needed to meet Montague minimums, we end up with 600 in the first two months and 1000 in the last 2 months under the proposed 600 minimum fishery edict)

Joe... this is the old discussion. Has anyone really run detailed numbers? If you have them I'd love to see them!

Once again PPL is singled out as a problem. It is if we can't bank the water for the fishery. If we could bank it ... it would a part of the solution. Downstream water, if we can bank it for the fishery, provides for more cool water for the fishery.
 
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I'm hoping someone will enlighten me about the history of all these different groups and what they stand for? Why is there not one unified voice fighting NYC? Where is Trout Unlimited? I'm a newcomer to the Delaware and would like to learn more.
 
I've gone ahead and added the Friends of the Delaware press release to the Main Menu. It's directly under the DRF link and listed as, "Support the FoTD."

The DRF and the Friends of the Delware river are NOT the same organization. Can someone enlighten us as to the differences?
 
A few questions regarding FOTD

I'm just wondering why we're only looking for 600cfs rather than a minimum of 800 cfs? Would this be a more realistic number? And, May 15th as a start date? Why not June 15th, or start off May 15th with 400cfs, and gradually get to 800? Just curious.


Toward that end, our positions are clear and concise: To protect both the wild trout and the cold water ecosystem, we seek a guaranteed 600 cfs release, from the Cannonsville Reservoir, from May 15 to September 15th. Here we would also point out that this rate of release not only protects the fishery, it readily accommodates both wade and drift boat fishermen and in so doing protects local fishing related economies.
 
Dennis,

The 600 cfs in the Friends of the Upper Delaware River (FUDR) plan is an important number. It takes app. 600 cfs to invoke a noticeable temperature change on the Main Stem. It is also less than the 25 year average daily release for that time period. Any more water may cause shortages. Any less would not be enough for the Main. The past 25 years of hard data prove that the 600 could be done. It is not an issue of enough water but rather better management. The starting date of May 15 is also important. Although it may seem to be a little early historical data proves this date to be the beginning of thermal stress problems on the Delaware.
 
No problem, Joe, and anyone else who may have been offended by some of the things said within this thread.

Paul,

Thanks for answering those questions. Hope you won't mind answering a few more. First, let me start off by saying, Welcome Aboard. I hope you'll continue to offer useful information.

At what times would these releases take place? How long does it take for the cool water to travel downstream to say Buckingham, or even below that? Would the releases be consistent enough to not shock the fish? I know sometimes they get a little buz going from the sudden cold and don't want to know anything for at least a few days. This is bad for me and bad for the business owners. Water dropping 10 degrees overnight could shut the fishery down for a few days. At least this is what I've experienced in the past. That's all for now, I think these are valid questions.

Thanks again for your time.

Dennis
Weamer said:
Dennis,

The 600 cfs in the Friends of the Upper Delaware River (FUDR) plan is an important number. It takes app. 600 cfs to invoke a noticeable temperature change on the Main Stem. It is also less than the 25 year average daily release for that time period. Any more water may cause shortages. Any less would not be enough for the Main. The past 25 years of hard data prove that the 600 could be done. It is not an issue of enough water but rather better management. The starting date of May 15 is also important. Although it may seem to be a little early historical data proves this date to be the beginning of thermal stress problems on the Delaware.
 
Dennis,
Thank you. You have a great board here. The releases would be constant. No more yo-yo effect with the water releases. This would stop the shocking of the fish and bugs with extreme variances in water volume and temperature. The water moves at app. one mile per hour. So it would take app. 17 hours for water to go from Cannonsville to Junction Pool. Great questions, paul
 
How?

Paul,
Thanks for all the info. One question, Is there a way that we as concerned sportsman can get involved? Letter campaigns? Financially? Meetings?
Any info would be greatly appreciated as there wasnt any on the
introductionary letter that was posted other than asking for support.
I think the direction that Friends is heading in is the correct one.
Thanks again,
Loomis54
 
CR, Trout Unlimited is with the DRF, (Delaware River Foundation), as is the Natrue Conservancy and many others. mark.........
 
Loomis54,
Thank you for your encouraging words and support. E-mail Craig Findley, the president of Friends, and offer your help to the group. He would be able to tell you exactly what is needed. Thanks again for your endorsement and your willingness to get involved. paul
 
Loomis54,
I forgot to mention that Craig Findley's e-mail address can be found at the bottom of the Friends letter.
 
To me it is sad that we have these two environmental organizations at odds with each other regarding the preservation and enhancement of Upper Delaware waters.

The DRF's target of 225cfs flows on the WB will degrade the fishery. The target flows must include a minimum cold water release. Their's does not. Also, a cold water release on the EB must be negotiated also. The DRF has nothing to my knowledge on this issue.

Now, the FODR are advocating a 600cfs release from Cannonsville starting May 15 to September 15 and 300cfs to round out the year. Again, nothing directed towards the EB. NYC, I believe ,would never approve such a release from C'ville year round.

What's needed to enhance and improve this already good fishery are guaranteed cold water releases into the WB and EB! The warm EB water is what kills the water temps on the Main throughout most of our summers.

I have fished these waters now for 22yrs and have seen the up and downs. From my observations, I'm offering this proposal to be considered by BOTH of these organizations to get on the
same bandwagon or very little will get accomplished.

Here is my thought:

YEAR ROUND cold water releases into the WB of 325cfs
YEAR ROUND cold water releases into the EB of 325cfs

*these releases to be constant no matter what gauge levels are at....

*target temp of 70 degrees to be maintained at Lordville during extreme heat waves with additional releases from Cannonsville

*I do not fish the Neversink...therefore no comment on that system

*I feel that we must negotiate the total package

sincerely,

comparadun
 
Comaparadun

First I agree it is sad that the two orgs are not currently joined at the hip.

I must clarify a couple of things with you though:

The 225 cfs on the West branch is not the DRF proposal for permanent releases.Its a three experimental progran that has been negotiated.

Also ,The DRF does cover the East branch and the Neversink.

http://www.delawareriverfoundation.com/newsletter_pg2.html


Question for you,how do you propose "we" cool the East branch all the way to the main stem?

You do realize that in some cases the Bkill is coming into the east branch at 80 degrees.Along with the fact theres such a great distance from the resevoir to the main it would be hard if not impossible to have "cold" water hitting the main stem at that point.

I do agree thought the the East Branch and Neversink should have slightly higher flows and be year round as well.It would improve both fisheries.

Your ideas about year round releases though are right on.
 
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Joe T.,

Why would the DRF negotiate the three year 225cfs experimental program when that will not work in the long term? It doesn't make much sense to me. What both groups must do is to negotiate a program that will work from the start.......

Now here's my thought on the B'kill coming into the EB at say, 80 degrees or so......this occurs in summer during extremely low flows and of course high air temps. I do believe that a constant EB cold water release of 325cfs could greatly offset this. You do know that in years of low summer flows and high temps on the EB, an increased release out of the WB does offset this and we have cool water all the way to Kellams. Now.....those were some of the best years on the Main in summer....

*****the keys here are the constant cold water releases of 325cfs on the WB and EB. As we all know, water heats up more slowly than its' surroundings. The system would enter the summer months at a lower temperature than at any time in the history of the system. The ecosystem would be greatly stabilized. No longer would we watch those water temps reach 75 degrees or so in June before the release ONLY from the WB begins.........I believe this can work. Throw my idea around with your friends from the DRF....sincerely...comparadun



CONSTANT RELEASE: WB EB


normal storage levels 325cfs 325cfs

drought warning 225cfs 225cfs

drought emergency 125cfs 125cfs


***under normal conditions : water temp at Lordville not to exceed 70 degrees and to be offset with an increased release from Cannonsville on WB........
 
To unregistered, I do not live in the Catskills and therefore am not able to attend DRF meetings with the state officials. The best I can do is send emails and letters of support when requested and financial support. What I do know is that the DRF has agonized and negotiated to get somthing started. This has been a long process with many meetings and they have heard all sides and considered every possible angle to work on our behalf. To now come up with proposed flows as you see it is only harming an effort already started. Don't you think they would get more if they could ? Don't you think this might be the next negotion after the three year expiriment ? I think we need to put our trust in the people who have been going to bat for us and let the process play itself out. You mention what both groups should do but I wonder what you have done to date. Lets not be armchair quarterbacks while others do all the work. There are a lot more dynamics to this complicated issue than to just say this is what I think they should do.Let those who understand the issues do what they can.
 
Comparadun

I wish it was as easy as making a phone call,but unfortunatley the situation is not one that you would see in a story book.Thats mainly due to the fact the we are dealing with four states,the Dep,Dec,Drbc and other various agencies involved.


Hence long drawn out tedious negotiating.

Its very complicated to say the least.

You are right years during low flows and high temps,you can cool the river down stream on the main stem.But like you said thats because of increased releases on the West branch.

As far as the East branch,you make that arguement as many have.But its hypothetical at best.Thats exactly why we at the DRF have placed 10 thermographs in the main stem and branches to conduct our own studies.

The reason we did this,as you probably know the USGS guages just dont "cover" enough water,

With the thermographs we will be able to study the temps above and below where the Bkill enters the East branch(jaws),as well as at junction pool to see what the temps really are.This will give us a much better understanding as to whether or not the east branch can really have a significant impact on cooling the main stem.

Until we see the results we can only make educated guesses at best.

There will be much study going forward to see what the system can really handle in terms of year round releases.

Since you seem to have a sincere concern about the rivers than why not come to our next board meeting in march since we are looking for two board memebers?Maybe than you will get a better idea of whats really being done.


Thanks Arnold.


Regards

Joe.t
JOET361@MSN.COM
 
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Arnold,

My small proposal has done nothing to harm the effort already started by the DRF. I applaud Joe T. and all the rest of those people on their efforts!

Now....what does seem to harm their ongoing efforts is this split in their troops. Why do you think Paul Weamer and the rest formed the FODR. They saw little to gain over the present 3 year experimental program and wanted to work towards a real solution. When confronted with a problem; one first forms a hypothesis(an educated guess as to a solution), tests this hypothesis, then draws conclusions which tell if you were right or wrong and adjustments must be made.

Joe T.,

The implanted thermographs are part of the testing stage of a hypothesis. Right now....the DRF has no definite hypothesis to be tested. We all know the history of water temps and flows in the B'kill and EB with the back data on the USGS. The 10 thermographs will tell us nothing that we don't already know.....but they WILL tell us if we were right or wrong with our hypothesis. I feel that my hypothesis is a valid one to be negotiated and tested.

I do believe that the system could handle these releases, but as you stated this needs further study. I also realize that the ongoing negotiations are tedious and rather complicated. I sincerely commend all of you in trying to better this fishery. Please do not take my message as a personal attack on you or the DRF. I just feel that you can come to the table with a much better proposal.

With my work situation and family obligations, at this point it is not possible for me to attend DRF meetings and get involved that way. I live close to three hours from the big D. Retirement is only about 6 yrs away.....then who knows? The Delaware is the only place I fish and I know it intimately.......although I wouldn't mind fishing the LOTG's sometime!!!! sincerely.....comparadun.
 
Comparadun,
It's too bad that you don't have time "to join the fight" for sustainable flows that all can agree on. "We could use a few good men.";)
Oh and by the way, living 3 hours away doesn't qualify as a good excuse for not becoming a board member. You can be bridged in to the meeting by phone. ;)

Talk about complex issues and opponents! You seem to be well informed on these issues but just in case you haven't read the DRBC meeting updates from the past few meetings, I would ask you to do so at the DRF website to get an idea of what (If I may borrow a term from a few of my friends) an 800 lb. gorillas'(NYDEC/DEP) response is to someone who asks him to share his bananas. It aint easy, especially since he doesn't speak the language although he's beginning to learn. :)
 
Comparadun

Your right there are many situations that are hypothetical regarding this issue.Also It is a complicated issue since there are so many different agnecies involved,along with so many variables...

I dont think your opinion is any way an attack at all.I actually am glad to see that someone like yourself has genuine concern for something thats so important to them.


LOTG Now where talkin.

Just let me know if ever want to head out there,since thats something that can be done with one call.And theres always a story book scenario out there :D
 
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Comparadun,

One point that hasn't been mentioned about the East Branch has to do with it's water quality. I think the NYDEP favors the water in the Pepacton over Cannonsville for drinking purposes and that's probably why we get larger releases from Cannonsville. It would most likely be more difficult for them to increase their releases from Pepacton because of this and I expect we will never see the Pepacton get as low as Cannonsville was a little over a year ago (approx. 3%). East Branch increased releases will be a tough battle!!

Bruce
 
Bruce, you are dead on right there. Cannonsville water is the lowest quality in the system. Hence it is released first. If comparadun had any idea at all of what it takes to get ANYTHING done, ... Phone calls alone are a joke in comparison to what it really takes. It is a start and we do appreciate all concerned citizens, but the process is very long and drawn out, and involves endless meetings and studies before even the slightest headway is made, step, by step, by step. You guys don't seem to realize just how many agencies, and beauracrcies are involved, not to mention states and governments. You NEED to get much better informed about what "The" proposel is, and how it is to be implemented. And it will be decided VERY soon. No one here actually knows the real resons for the so called "split." I do, but we are sworn to keep that off this board. Trust me guys, you don't even know the half of it. All you see is 225 cfs versus 600 cfs, and then you jump to conclusions. That is a senseless approach. In the first place 600 cfs is NEVER going to happen. New York State and New York City will NEVER give you that. Not NOW, anyway. And NEVER as long as the PPL is still in operation. Right now, the fight is over relicensing of the PPL. Until that is determined, nothing will be decided about flows. It would take paragraph after paragraph for me to explain why the DRF is for the relicensing and to explain what all the valid reasons are here. Surffice it to say, there is a method to our hard work. And it WILL pay off. You have to be patiant and give the organaization a chace to work. There are NO quick fixes..............NOT when your dealaing with the State and City of New York. Believe it, or not. mark......................
 
willowhead said:
<most of this is snipped for brevity except for the following:>,

You NEED to get much better informed about what "The" proposel is, and how it is to be implemented. And it will be decided VERY soon.
.........................

The following is from the Delaware River Basin Commission's website.

The three year experimental release proposal for the Upper Delaware River system on the table is below along with a link to the .pdf file.

The public hearing is this coming Tuesday, March 2 2004 at the PPL/Lake Wallenpaupack Conference Center in Hawley, Pennsylvania. Directions to the center and times are at that link.

It's best to have the readers of njflyfishing.com actually read the proposal and possibly atend the public hearing next Tuesday since what is being presented to you - the angling public that fishes these waters could have consequences in the next three years.

Hope to see some of you there.
 
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