Welcome to NEFF

Sign up for a new account today, or log on with your old account!

Give us a try!

Welcome back to the new NEFF. Take a break from Twitter and Facebook. You don't go to Dicks for your fly fishing gear, you go to your local fly fishing store. Enjoy!

"Expletives Fly at Meeting" =article=

_ritter_

Gadfly
At:
http://www.sc-democrat.com/news/10October/08/manor.htm
........

Expletives Fly
At Flood Meeting

By Ted Waddell
LIVINGSTON MANOR — "It's all bull----," screamed Patricia Born, one of the enraged survivors of the third major flood to hit her community since 1996, as the hard-pressed Town of Rockland Supervisor Pat Pomeroy opened up the floor to public comments during last Thursday's (September 30) town hall meeting at the Livingston Manor Firehouse.

The gathering was convened to discuss what happened to local folks during September's flood and what officials planned to do about it so people's homes wouldn't yet again be washed away or severely damaged by a raging Willowemoc and Little Beaverkill.
Pointing her finger at a panel of local, state and federal officials, Born made her feelings a lot clearer than the muddy waters that forced Born and her son to flee for their lives.

"I've got an autistic son to worry about," she yelled. "You've been conning everybody, and that stinks . . . and you won't do a damn thing, but I am going to get you for making me lose my home.

"You don't give a s--- because you're all nice and cozy," she added forcefully as some folks shushed for quiet, while others voiced their approval at her strongly expressed sentiments.
Nancy Vitale said she's known the river since she was a year old and over the years has watched it change.

"I lost a lot of land," said Vitale. "Now I've got 2,000 logs and a tremendous amount of erosion."

Comments rose like angry hornets toward the officials, as folks in the audience weren't having any of it when Andrew Feeney, deputy director of the State Emergency Management Office (SEMO), said of disaster aid response, "It was a lengthy process, a lot of regulations."

Bill Rudge of the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) drew a round of boos when he said his agency has issued 20-some work permits to dredge the Willowemoc and Little Beaverkill to ease future flooding – only to have Town of Rockland Highway Superintendent Bowman Owen add that, yes, he's got a stack of permits, but they're only good for dredging where roads, not people's homes, were lost, so fire apparatus and school buses can get through.

"I get it both ways," said Wendy Zayas, a resident of a local trailer park ravaged by the most recent flood.

"I had to drag my daughter through waist-high water . . . and now she cries every time it rains," railed Zayas. "Forget the trout, think of the people."

Many folks in the standing-room-only meeting carried handmade "No Trout" signs reading "Fix the River. Save Our Town."

A 20-year resident of Pearl Street said she's one of the first to get wet when the river floods, so she pays attention to it.
"I watch it like a hawk," the intentionally anonymous woman said. "Livingston Manor does flood, but not to the extent we've seen recently – rivers are a moving, living force, but nothing is being done to protect us."

She suggested the town implement an early flood warning system "other than me."

Directing his ire towards a rep. from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (the agency that can build dams and move rivers), Gus Eklund said, "You ought to take a walk down that river and see what needs to be done – you ain't done nothing in three years."
The USACE rep. said studies were underway to help affected area communities, and his agency was working with Congressman Hinchey's office to help resolve the problems.
Joann Carlino moved to Manor from Queens five years ago and brought with her a biting wit.

"Let the friggin' fish die – who cares?" she said. "Nobody told me this was a flood zone when I bought my house."

John Parker said he needs to "move some huge rocks so the river can't go through my house . . . but nobody explains how to get help.

"If we don't fix the problem, we won't have a Livingston Manor," he said with an eye on the next flood. "What I want to see is not just promises but somebody on the river doing something."
George Fulton, a local surveyor, offered an idea that, if workable, might ease the impact of flooding by diverting high water to a dry lake bed at an old airport to the east of town.

Richard "Dick" Martinkovic serves Sullivan County as Director of Emergency Management/Homeland Security and Fire Coordinator.
He said that of initial flood damage estimates in the county of approximately $19-20 million, the Town of Rockland sustained about $3 million.

"We know we had serious damage here to more than 30 pieces of property, and another 60 or more sustained damage," said Martinkovic.

He said that if the president declares the region a disaster area, that decision will open up the resources of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in two areas: (1) Public Assistance (PA) to build roads, bridges, etc. and (2) Individual Assistance (IA) to help folks rebuild/replace damaged or lost homes.

Martinkovic didn't hold out a lot of hope for quick action locally, as he said FEMA is currently trying to cope with the ravages of four major hurricanes to strike Florida and other Southern states.
"They are stressed and stretched," he said. "They will come, but people just have to be patient."
 
the most telling statement: ""Let the friggin' fish die – who cares?" she said. "Nobody told me this was a flood zone when I bought my house.""

In my area, you are always told if you are in a flood zone, done during the survey, which is mandatory.

What gives in NY?
 
Many folks in the standing-room-only meeting carried handmade "No Trout" signs reading "Fix the River. Save Our Town."

"Let the friggin' fish die – who cares?" she said. "Nobody told me this was a flood zone when I bought my house."


"you ain't done nothing in three years."

Hmph. I guess they don't realize that their towns actually do require those fish for their own good. No fish = No money.
 
I find her statements amazing considering how the rest of the system is battling for water releases to keep temperatures for the fish. I guess some people do not see what is driving their economy.
 
Sounds like the same type of people who buy a house next to an airport or dairy farm, and then try to get it shut down becasue they don't like the noise from the planes, farm equipment, or the smell of cow poop on a hot summer day.

How stupid do you have to be to buy a house on a flood plain next to a major river system and not realize it may flood?
 
Keep in mind it's easier to blame something than admitting your own in this case stupidity. If I am correct, No one should have to say anything about a flood plane when you see streams around you. So they get flooded and say screw the fish and their primary source of income. Then what, declare bankrupcy because of no jobs due to no tourist fishing and shopping and staying at Motels and eating at Resteraunts. I agree with all your posts on this thread, but still do not understand that the people who were affected by the flood do not understand their local economy.


Andy B
 
Kind of ironic that just a few months ago they held the First Annual Trout Festival, celebrating the fish that is such an important part of their existance. Hey, maybe this will drive the cost down and riverside porperty will become more affordable:)

Keith
 
Andy B said:
I agree with all your posts on this thread, but still do not understand that the people who were affected by the flood do not understand their local economy.
Andy B

Not to pick on you or just your quote, Andy B, but I think it's kinda funny that the "experts" posting here on the local economies in NYS, are from Jersey...

I don't know the people quoted in that story, but they don't give the impression of being brain surgeons. They do give the impression that they are very upset about having lost a big chunk of their property and possibly most of what they own, to rain... a lot of rain, but still, rain. I'd say give them a break, let them vent, and with time, cooler heads should prevail.

John
 
John:

A few towns over from me people went through the same thing. In my arear this summer we all were scared because 13 inches of rain occurred with-in 24 hours. One of our favorite towns known for it's little shops and village was under 8 feet of water and three out of the five dambs broke. The point here is that instead of saying to hell with the lakes and dambs that is truly a big portion of what makes medford lakes, a rally cry of how do we get our little town back together and how the hell do we rebuild our homes, we need to get our lakes and dambs back. I will tell you, people banded together and took a problem on in a completely diffrent approach. The town is making a progress and will not recover for about another year. It so far has taken donations, fund raisers and help from the government. In times of crisis South jersey shown that cool heads prevail and that the people of Medford Lakes, Pemeberton and Lumberton knows that the shopping village and all it's little eateries is what brought bussiness into their town and generated a cash flow for their community. John, my point is, this is just a little take how people who went through the same thing looked at things a little different.

Andy B
 
There is a reason that all the "experts" that commented are from New Jersey. New Jersey has jobs. I originally grew up in central PA and would love to move back. But, it's no different than NYS. Great trout streams and the only jobs are mainly service oriented. I have a choice of driving two hours north to fish a decent trout stream in New Jersey or take the same two hours and go to PA. I will go to PA. No different with the trip to New York.
 
Andy,
Have you driven down into Medford lakes recently? I drive through every day on my way home from work. I do not think that those dams are coming back anytime soon. In fact, some of the ones that did not break have lowered the water levels considerably. Who is going to pay for the reconstruction of those dams? I hope it's not our state tax paying money. Take it out of the local townships taxes. Most of Medford is probably at the $10,000 a year range in taxes anyway. I am still baffled where all of that money can go. If I recall, 90% of those dams are for the private community and we (tax payers) do not have access to any of them. There are still a lot of homes along what is left of those lakes with for sales on the front lawns. People are asking ridiculous prices for the flood damaged water front homes too. The people have banded together to get the communities back on track. The governments help is just going to be low interest loans. It's not free money. They are not going rebuild the homes of all the victims.
 
"— "It's all bull----," screamed Patricia Born, one of the enraged survivors of the third major flood to hit her community since 1996"

These people seem to have been through more than their share of flood related events. I can venture a guess that they are wondering why nothing has been done to protect them from this recurring damage. Do you believe that the people mentioned in your scenario (Medford Lakes, Pemeberton and Lumberton) will settle for dams built like the old ones that failed? Something will be done in their construction to stave off what happened from happening again, yes? How would they feel if it happened three times in less than ten years?

"He said that of initial flood damage estimates in the county of approximately $19-20 million, the Town of Rockland sustained about $3 million."

How many flies, motel stays and burgers does it take for the fishermen to buy, in order to outweigh these kind of losses? ...in just THIS area?

'"If we don't fix the problem, we won't have a Livingston Manor," he said with an eye on the next flood. "What I want to see is not just promises but somebody on the river doing something."'

What good will the fishing industry be to a town that does not exist?

With a median household income in Medford probably close to $100,000 and an average house at about $160,000(with some of those mansions on the lakesides going for $500,000 or more), they have some good reasons to get those dams back. It's hard to sell a house, let alone live in one, that has a bog in the back yard. You mentioned that these communities had government help to get them back on their feet;these people up in NYS have to wait...

"He said that if the president declares the region a disaster area, that decision will open up the resources of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in two areas: (1) Public Assistance (PA) to build roads, bridges, etc. and (2) Individual Assistance (IA) to help folks rebuild/replace damaged or lost homes.
Martinkovic didn't hold out a lot of hope for quick action locally, as he said FEMA is currently trying to cope with the ravages of four major hurricanes to strike Florida and other Southern states.
"They are stressed and stretched," he said. "They will come, but people just have to be patient."

These people who earn about $35,000 per household don't have much room in their budgets to make the repairs they need until the help comes (if) later. I guess they could have a bake sale...

Better yet, if we can get one thousand fishermen to donate $3000 each, that will cover the Town of Rockland. Then we can get another thousand fishermen to donate to the next town, and on and on up and down the rivers until we're all too broke to pay for the gas to go and fish there anyway... ;)

John
 
There is a big "IF" the help comes for these people. My brother-in-law's home was flooded during Floyd and the amount of disaster relief that he received was about $300. That sure isn't going to fix your house. Most of the relief that is offered is low interest loans. Which as you said, people already strapped with an income of $35,000 can't take on another loan.
 
Point taken on the loan thing...
I'm not sure what it is that these "expletive throwers" actually want done. One can infer that they would like the rivers dredged in places other than bridges and roads. If taking away material is all that this dredging would do, it's a temporary fix. To me, it seems the most interesting remark was:

"Nancy Vitale said she's known the river since she was a year old and over the years has watched it change. "I lost a lot of land," said Vitale. "Now I've got 2,000 logs and a tremendous amount of erosion."

I wonder how the river has "changed" in her eyes. If it's just natural movement of the river bed, I have a little less sympathy.
But if the river has been altered in some way that has increased the likelyhood of erosion in places that normally would be free of it... well then, that's different. Often times, people think they are doing a good thing when they "fix" a problem streamside. Unfortunately, they often just "move the river's energy (and associated problems) downstream.

John
 
The Army Corps of engineers is only recently learning that when they try to "fix" what Mother Nature has created on her own, they often cause more problems than they solve.

For example, berms, dikes, and levees concentrate flood waters and allow them to build volume, velocity, and intensity which causes elevated water levels, and thus more intense flooding down river. When water is allowed to spread out over a flood plain, this does not happen in such a devastating degree as is often experienced in "flood controlled" areas.

Perhaps the solution lies in respecting the power that lies in the forces of nature. Learn to deal with it, learn to live with it, and build in understanding of it instead of trying to tame it.

The bottom line is, you can't stop the rain from falling.

The rain will fall, and the water will run to the sea long after all of us are gone.
 
Scott:

I have to say I agree with you with no butts. I do feel that people in general should know they live in a flood zone or research before you buy to see if flooding ever occurred in the area that you live. I feel some places like by streams and dambs is to obvious. Other might be able to fool some and others only expose themselves once in a blue moon or found out by research. I feel the bottom line is you buy property near stream and dambs and when they flood it's the streams fault. Sort of like buying property next to an airport and then complaining about the noise and a need to shut the airport down.


Andy B
 
Back
Top