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Delaware Cooked
- Thread starter NJFred
- Start date
golden beetle
Active member
Hearing the same thing.
Lower west is over 70 degrees too.
Lower west is over 70 degrees too.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Call the governor. He's supposed to care sbout these things
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
This my post from last year on this same problem.
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...n-forum/t26616-releases-3-a-2.html#post241395
This is the problem with a man made ecosystem. In its nature it is based on an elusion. The problem with elusions is they always reveal their truths. GB stated that the west branch is the best Fishery in the US. I could make a compelling argument just on that base alone. Unlike the Big Horn and Missouri Rivers in Montana the Upper Delaware system is dependent upon human intervention to maintain the system. Without it the system would collapse. Brown trout and Rainbows are not indigenous to the northeast. The reason is adaptability. Native Brook trout through natural selection have the ability to overcome the 5 to 6 weeks in the summer when the O2 levels are diminished and the water quality is not conducive to most other species of Salmonids. Bookies have earned the right to survive the onslaught of warmer water temperatures.
On top of the elusion of the man made ecosystem. The systems main purpose is to provide drinking water to millions of people. When the North East experiences a prolonged drought It will magnify the release problem. I am not talking about 5 or 6 months of low perception. I am talking about 5 or 6 years and longer of it. It has happened in the past it will happen again. When it happens the fishery will become unsustainable below the wanted resource. (water). We are already starting to see Belly up Polices (Just keep it cool enough so the trout are not belly up). without a drought
When a sustained drought does hit. Add the increase in population over the past few decades. The flow problems would amplify expediently. The water rights of thirsty humans will always supersede the climate controlled fishery. What flow rates should be released today will not be the case in the future. Let’s just enjoy the fishery while we can. In the future it will be striped away .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...n-forum/t26616-releases-3-a-2.html#post241395
This is the problem with a man made ecosystem. In its nature it is based on an elusion. The problem with elusions is they always reveal their truths. GB stated that the west branch is the best Fishery in the US. I could make a compelling argument just on that base alone. Unlike the Big Horn and Missouri Rivers in Montana the Upper Delaware system is dependent upon human intervention to maintain the system. Without it the system would collapse. Brown trout and Rainbows are not indigenous to the northeast. The reason is adaptability. Native Brook trout through natural selection have the ability to overcome the 5 to 6 weeks in the summer when the O2 levels are diminished and the water quality is not conducive to most other species of Salmonids. Bookies have earned the right to survive the onslaught of warmer water temperatures.
On top of the elusion of the man made ecosystem. The systems main purpose is to provide drinking water to millions of people. When the North East experiences a prolonged drought It will magnify the release problem. I am not talking about 5 or 6 months of low perception. I am talking about 5 or 6 years and longer of it. It has happened in the past it will happen again. When it happens the fishery will become unsustainable below the wanted resource. (water). We are already starting to see Belly up Polices (Just keep it cool enough so the trout are not belly up). without a drought
When a sustained drought does hit. Add the increase in population over the past few decades. The flow problems would amplify expediently. The water rights of thirsty humans will always supersede the climate controlled fishery. What flow rates should be released today will not be the case in the future. Let’s just enjoy the fishery while we can. In the future it will be striped away .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Joe D
Registered User
The Bighorn & Missouri trout fisheries are both tailwaters. I think you meant to say "like".
NJFred
Trout Hunter
Tom Fly.. I completely get what you are saying. However humans are part of the environment and eco system too. That includes our actions and endeavors. Our actions and endeavors modify and change the environment. As we are the most powerful species in the ecosystem our activity often changes the environment in more profound ways than other species. Further we alone, of all the species on earth, understand what we do to the enviorment and the consequences. We therefore have the responsibility to mange those consequences. Responsibility to therefore protect an unintended consequence of what we have created in the Upper Delaware System, a terrific trout fishery. Further we have the means to do so but we are not. We are not in a drought. We have plenty of water. We (NYC) are choosing not to protect the fishery when we can.
I certainly hope you are not implying that we should stay silent and not work to protect the fishery. If you get my point above we have a responsibility now to protect what we created particularly when we can but we are not.
I certainly hope you are not implying that we should stay silent and not work to protect the fishery. If you get my point above we have a responsibility now to protect what we created particularly when we can but we are not.
golden beetle
Active member
Good stuff.
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
--------------
Good morning.
Some very good points you raised.
I really don't find fault with Friends of the Upper Delaware (FUDR) eventhough I am currently not a member.
The are our only advocacy group up here and have done laudible work with regards to stream improvement and education for kids along with trying to pump revenue into a depressed area. They have tried to stay as a apolitical as possible which was a good strategy since Hancock and Deposit town governments were pro-frack and they probably wanted to side step that landmine whereever and whenever possible.
I was there back when Rick Eck, Phil Chase, Paul Weamer and Craig Findley were in 2002.
And, then there was Jim Serio's Delaware River Foundation.
I believe that there were naive to think that that could somehow embrace a holistic view that NYC could release more water from not only the West Branch - but also the East Branch and Neversink as well.
There is only so much of their water to go around. And if you take from East Branch, you give back from West Branch. It becomes zero sum for NYC.
However, I do find both Serio and Peter Kolesar, co-authors of the Flexible Flow Management Plan (FFMP), accountable and what is most reprehensible is that they actually take credit thinking that this valuable resource is actually better off now under their guidance and tutelage.
Charts are attached.
Tony Ritter
Attachments
lightenup
A fan of Boobery
WBDluver
Official NEFF pot stirrer
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
--------
Not quite.
Wayne and Pike Counties are in a Drought Watch which is different than a Dorught Warning or Drought Emergency.
See:
Drought Information
golden beetle
Active member
advocate for the d
TR
"You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
trico mike
make mine wild
I always found that gauge to be odd in its temp readings. It must be on a cold water seep. If Hancock and fishes eddy are both reading 70 ish the mainstem is cooked . I never trust the lordville gauge.Grad G Tony.... Further there is no way the river around Lordville is at 70 with Hancock and Fishes Eddy coming in at 74 degrees. It's gotta be at least 75 there.
mudbug201
loose loops, sink tips
This is what I was worrying about a few days ago looking at the weather this weekend. It actually could get worse. Only a moderate chance of rain tomorrow and continuing 80 degree plus weather for the next few days. It's not unreasonable to think the lower main and lower EB could hit 80 degrees.
Anybody know at what point heat stress induced morbidity kicks in for rainbows and browns? Are we looking at fish kills in the upper D with the reservoirs over 90 percent full? Aren't there emergency releases built into FFMP when a heat wave threatens the fishery?
Sorry if I'm getting all Chicken Little up here - I went swimming today in the upper main and it was like bath water. Scary hot. And the best part is I got to watch a couple of nimrods throw nymphs from a drift boat in a 75 degree river while drinking my afternoon beer.
Anybody know at what point heat stress induced morbidity kicks in for rainbows and browns? Are we looking at fish kills in the upper D with the reservoirs over 90 percent full? Aren't there emergency releases built into FFMP when a heat wave threatens the fishery?
Sorry if I'm getting all Chicken Little up here - I went swimming today in the upper main and it was like bath water. Scary hot. And the best part is I got to watch a couple of nimrods throw nymphs from a drift boat in a 75 degree river while drinking my afternoon beer.
NJFred
Trout Hunter
Well... If you read this report... today's from the West Branch Angler and thought thermometer's are only good to measure fevers.... I'm never spending another dime at the West Branch Angler. "The main and east are still floatable" "No problem getting around on foot on all the river systems" No mention that most of the system is way to hot to fish. Shame on them... They know better than this. (I'm not blaming the guides there). FYI... temps hit 74 at Hancock and 74 at Fishes Eddy. The entire main was well over 70 (the lordville gauge is not accurate)
River Report For 10-May-2015
Posted on 10-May-2015 by Jake Pfeiffer
Happy Mothers Day! Today will be another warm and sunny day on the river systems with temps in the mid 80's. The West Branch is still pretty low with the flow at Hale Eddy at 235, but the West is still fishing really well. We are still seeing some Hendricksons in size 14-16, Blue quill in a size 18, and some Blue Wing Olives in a size 18 on the cloudy days along with spinners in the evening. Fishing early in the mornings has been productive as well, with left over spinners and some caddis. The Main and the East Branch are still Floatable, but are starting to get a little skinny, and are in need for some rain. We are scheduled to get some this afternoon and the next flowing days, and hopefully it will be enough to get the rivers back up to floating conditions. But with the water being as it is, you shouldn't have any problem getting around on foot on all the river systems and seeing a good amount of fish rising late in the evenings, sipping on spinners. Nymphing has been real good of late do to the lower water flows, and using a small pheasant or hares ear in a size 14 is hard to beat. Also, using wet flies and caddis pupa are a good option as well. But all said, it should be another great day on the Delaware System. Tight lines!
River Report For 10-May-2015
Posted on 10-May-2015 by Jake Pfeiffer
Happy Mothers Day! Today will be another warm and sunny day on the river systems with temps in the mid 80's. The West Branch is still pretty low with the flow at Hale Eddy at 235, but the West is still fishing really well. We are still seeing some Hendricksons in size 14-16, Blue quill in a size 18, and some Blue Wing Olives in a size 18 on the cloudy days along with spinners in the evening. Fishing early in the mornings has been productive as well, with left over spinners and some caddis. The Main and the East Branch are still Floatable, but are starting to get a little skinny, and are in need for some rain. We are scheduled to get some this afternoon and the next flowing days, and hopefully it will be enough to get the rivers back up to floating conditions. But with the water being as it is, you shouldn't have any problem getting around on foot on all the river systems and seeing a good amount of fish rising late in the evenings, sipping on spinners. Nymphing has been real good of late do to the lower water flows, and using a small pheasant or hares ear in a size 14 is hard to beat. Also, using wet flies and caddis pupa are a good option as well. But all said, it should be another great day on the Delaware System. Tight lines!
Matt Grobert
6/0 Olive Danville
I was on the East Branch below East Branch this morning, water was 69F at 11:30. We had a good morning, and called it a day. The river had to get over 70F not long after with the bright, hot sun and low water.
M
M
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
MB it has nothing to do with temperature. It has to do with how much dissolved Oxygen water can hold at a temperature.
This is from another post I did last year.
These are based on water O2 saturation averages for the summer.
At 75% O2 saturation and above , 65 degrees Fahrenheit and below average summer stream temperature. O2 saturation is at optimum for trout reproduction and growth.
At 74% to 70% O2 saturation level which equates to 66 to 68 degrees, Tout will reproduce but with limited growth.
At 70% O2, 69-70 degrees average summer water temperature saturation levels of the stream, fish can survive but will not reproduce or maintain a population. The stream needs to be stocked to fish it.
When O2 saturation gets below 70% 71 and above the stream will lose the ability to maintain viability for trout.
That's why rain or that evening thunderstorm is so important. That 10 minute shower can drop the stream temperatures just enough to take some of the stress off the fish for a few days.
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WBDluver
Official NEFF pot stirrer
But the fish will move to where the O2 is greater. There will be no massive fish kill because NY is not releasing water. The Rainbows which are the least toletant to high temperature and pollution, have been in that river system since 1884. Well before the present system with the dams and water releases. They have survived major drought, floods. pollution from the towns industries and well before sewage treatment plants. Now im not saying the old days were good days. Just trying to point out that every time we have warm weather there is no need to yell the sky is falling.
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
There could be some loss but i suspect as you say the fish know where to go to survive. Hopefully by midweek things begin to normalize. Until then everyone try to relax or think of another thread topic to describe the end of the upper D fishing. Something like "Delaware Inferno" or upper d troutpacolypse. Best title wins a free fly box
tomfly
The only thing left should be foot prints.
I agree 100%. The problem arises from the uneducated fishermen. He will unknowing brain starve the fish of Oxygen while fighting the fish. This is why these posts are the most important.
afishinado
Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
DELAWARE RIVER REPORT / CONDITIONS MAY 11, 2015
May 11, by Jeff White
Take today off from fishing. The Lordville gage is showing 69 degrees already this morning. We believe that the Lordville gage registers cooler than the actual river temperature so the Mainstem is a little over 70 degrees already. It looks likes the potential for rain has been decreasing and we are only looking at around a 1/10th of an inch this afternoon with air temperatures in the 80’s. A little more rain should fall overnight but much of it will be soaked up by the ground and vegetation that is leafing out. The air temps will remain warm tonight but will begin to drop on Tuesday night offering a little relief. We are watching the system closely and making decisions day by day.
We are not going to fish or take anyone fishing today. Like yesterday we suggest everyone take today off to give the fish a break. Hopefully mother nature provides us some relief over the next few days.
The West Branch at Hale Eddy peaked at 67 degrees yesterday. The lower West Branch, East Branch, and Mainstem all peaked over 70 degrees. Callicoon peaked over 75 degrees.
- See more at: The Delaware River Club River Conditions / Blog
May 11, by Jeff White
Take today off from fishing. The Lordville gage is showing 69 degrees already this morning. We believe that the Lordville gage registers cooler than the actual river temperature so the Mainstem is a little over 70 degrees already. It looks likes the potential for rain has been decreasing and we are only looking at around a 1/10th of an inch this afternoon with air temperatures in the 80’s. A little more rain should fall overnight but much of it will be soaked up by the ground and vegetation that is leafing out. The air temps will remain warm tonight but will begin to drop on Tuesday night offering a little relief. We are watching the system closely and making decisions day by day.
We are not going to fish or take anyone fishing today. Like yesterday we suggest everyone take today off to give the fish a break. Hopefully mother nature provides us some relief over the next few days.
The West Branch at Hale Eddy peaked at 67 degrees yesterday. The lower West Branch, East Branch, and Mainstem all peaked over 70 degrees. Callicoon peaked over 75 degrees.
- See more at: The Delaware River Club River Conditions / Blog
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Guys that are flyfishing I tend to believe know this Is a bad idea already. I applaud guides that are not fishing right now knowing it's a direct hit on their wallet. Last year there were some reports of a guide or 3 targeting fish in the thermal refuges which sucks. And so it goes
golden beetle
Active member
Is it safe to fish from Hale Eddy, then, and up?
Or perhaps even further up than Hale Eddy?
I hope they release a little water.
mudbug201
loose loops, sink tips
Just watched a young guy and an old guy launch a drift boat on the lower east branch, casting dry flies at the one or two fish that are still rising. Morons. My guess is they planned this week ahead of time and have a "hell or low water" philosophy about it. Not going to be deterred by trout-pocalypse 2015. I was a hundred yards away but even from there I could tell the old guy was an asshole. There was just a big invisible cloud of asshole-ness surrounding him.
Anyway, I agree that most fly fishermen aren't going to be out there in these conditions. And even if they are, any fish kills caused by fishermen would be minimal. I'm pretty satisfied by WDLuver's optimism.
Still, if you look at the charts, the current flows are only about 100 cfs above the 60 year minimum. Trout have survived in the system for twice that, but it's still a tough situation out there right now. Glad I'm not a guide.:crap:
MACFLY
Too many streams too little time
Yeah this really sucks for them. Interesting though when I crossed over the delaware at new hope yesterday the river didn't look bad at all. Where is the water coming from?
golden beetle
Active member
Air temps are gonna be very low starting Wednesday. I think the overnight lows are gonna drop below freezing.
Hopefully a storm passes by soon.
