Catskill Report...July 26 & 27

[bkill]

It seemed like a simple plan..Take advantage of the recent heavy rains and spend the weekend on the Beaverkill, Willow and East Branch..The Beaverkill hit 16,000 cfs this past Wed but as always, it dropped like a rock and was running 1200 cfs when I arrived Sat afternoon..The only problem was it looked like chocolate milk..There was alot of damage and erosion on the upper Beaverkill...Rt 206 was closed due to the flooding...The East Branch wasnt much better, so my options were the West Branch or the Willowemoc..The Willow was running high and slightly off color but very fishable...I stopped by a friends house and convinced him to go fishing...We hit the the Willow around 6:30. There was very little bug activity but the fish were hungry and hitting big dries...We both landed a few nice fish and lost quite a few in the heavy water..
The next morning the Beaverkill was still running brown, so I hit the no-kill section on the Willow...Again the fish were cooperative in the heavy water..I was fishing a high floating size 12 attractor with a beadhead Pheasant tail dropper...I missed a few fish in the fast water, and landed a few nice owns before lunch..It was equal between the dry and the nymph but I landed more that were hooked with the nymph...Black Clouds and Lightning chased me off the river, so I took refuge in the Catskill Flyfishing Museum and it was a good choice because I was stuck there for at least a 45 minutes as the skies just opened up...


We were wishing for rain, but this is just too much!


The Museum

Afterwards the Lower Willowemoc was unfishable, all the tribs were dumping liquid mud into the river..I drove upstream in hopes of finding some clear water and once I got above Debruce I found some fishable water...Like the morning, The fish seemed eager to feed and I landed another handful of fish, all small browns, on the tandem dry/nymph rig. At this point the sky was blue and the sun was out but I could still hear thunder in the distance...All of a sudden I noticed the water getting darker and faster. It was like I was fishing a tailwater and someone opened up all the gates..A few minutes later I was standing in thigh deep brown water and wished I had a wading staff...I bailed out and hiked back to the truck....


BEFORE


AFTER


A Trib about 2 hours after the rain

The tribs on the Beaverkill and Willow really took a beaten in last weeks flood, there are piles of stone and debris, some which are 3 feet higher than the main river, at their creek mouths...Be careful when wading, I noticed alot of changes to flows and pools!!


A Willowemoc Brown from the No-KIll


An Upper Willow Brown

 

[MACFLY]

Bkill

Great Report and thanks for the pictures. Its been too long since I got out for trout I almost forgot what they looked like One question I have is that a few years ago I understood that TU was doing a good deal of work in the area in the hopes of protecting the BeaverKill and Willow. To your knowledge or to anyone elses for that matter has anything been done. It seems that the rivers are getting a great deal of silt and debris when it rains. Clearly this was not an ordinary rain but what happens when a normal or slightly worse than normal rain event occurs. Are we still seeing the rivers turn brown? Is anyone aware of what work was done. I recall seeng a TU show where they were working with bridge runoff trying to cool the water before it entered the stream. I think the featured stream was the willow.

 

[dcabarle]

It's amazing how a river can change like that in a matter of a few minutes. Something similar happened to me while on the Mainstem... I was fishing up to my knees and it started to rain like crazy. I Figured it would pass pretty quick so I stood there. Before I knew it, the water was over my waist! Then it dawned on me that I was standing on a rock which lifted me a foot out of the water. As I tried backing off the rock, I could feel my feet sliding. I eventually backed out of the river unharmed but it was a scary situation.

 

[bkill]

In the mid 90s TU launched the Beaverkill Initiative, which studied the economic impact fishing had on the Upper Delaware Community, they also studied the migration patterns of the trout within the system and the current quality of the system (macroinvertibrate, fish, water quality etc...). At the time I was president of a NJ TU Chapter and also had a place on the East Branch, so I spent some weekends working with Jock Cunningham, TUs Project Director, on the project..During the project, the flood of 96 hit the region and TU immediately changed it focus on repairing the damage from the flood and fixing the poorly executed emergency repairs made by the state and county...There was alot of time, money and effort spent on plantings, repairs to spawning waters, tributarys and stabilizing river banks from that flood and the ones that followed ...Unfortunately there has been at least 6 major flood events that have hit the system over the last 8 years, including last years Flood that reached 62,000 cfs.. SO to really answer your question, IMO, the river and tribs are still recovering from some of the last floods and trying to get back to its natural course...The tribs have alot of erosion and destabilized banks. I am sure increased development in the region and other environmental issues (such as the frequency of these floods) play a factor but I think it will take a while for the system to fully recover...On another note, the hatches were good this year and the fishing has been excellent at times...

Hopefully we can get more of an "expert" answer from this forum...

 

[Mayfly]

bkill,

" including last years Flood that reached 62,000 cfs."

Where was this and is that number correct? Wow!

Allan

 

[MACFLY]

It's amazing how a river can change like that in a matter of a few minutes. Something similar happened to my while on the Mainstem... I was fishing up to my knees and it started to rain like crazy. I Figured it would pass pretty quick so I stood there. Before I knew it, the water was over my waist! Then it dawned on me that I was standing on a rock which lifted me a foot out of the water. As I tried backing off the rock, I could feel my feet sliding. I eventually backed out of the river unharmed but it was a scary situation.

Yep that is a slightly scary situation. About 10 years ago while fishing the Roaring Fork below Aspen in early June I had a similar episode. This was due to a prolonged runoff. I was standing midstream nymphing the main channel when I noticed some debris coming down the river (the debris in question was a rathe large tree that was about to roll over me) I was only about 15 feet to the bank and wading out the water didnt much above my kneew. When I headed back towards the bank my first step back had me in just about waist deep water. Now Roaring fork that far up is a rough stream so I was instantly concerned. THe next step added almost another foot of water and soon I was doing the Roaring fork 2 step on 45 degree angle heading downstream. I was literally skipping over boulders trying to stay upright till I reached shore. About 5 feet from shore my guide grabbed me and kept me from going under. After we got to shore and I sat down he explained that during time of runoff the river can rise quickly as ice and snow upstream kick loose and a flood of water that is trapped gets released. This also results in debris coming down the river as well. Later that day he was showing my buddy how to nymph and I turned away for a minutes or so. When I turned back I saw both of them doing the Roaring Fork 2 step. I decided to float the rest of the week

 

[klg neighbor]

Yep that is a slightly scary situation. About 10 years ago while fishing the Roaring Fork below Aspen in early June I had a similar episode. This was due to a prolonged runoff. I was standing midstream nymphing the main channel when I noticed some debris coming down the river (the debris in question was a rathe large tree that was about to roll over me) I was only about 15 feet to the bank and wading out the water didnt much above my kneew. When I headed back towards the bank my first step back had me in just about waist deep water. Now Roaring fork that far up is a rough stream so I was instantly concerned. THe next step added almost another foot of water and soon I was doing the Roaring fork 2 step on 45 degree angle heading downstream. I was literally skipping over boulders trying to stay upright till I reached shore. About 5 feet from shore my guide grabbed me and kept me from going under. After we got to shore and I sat down he explained that during time of runoff the river can rise quickly as ice and snow upstream kick loose and a flood of water that is trapped gets released. This also results in debris coming down the river as well. Later that day he was showing my buddy how to nymph and I turned away for a minutes or so. When I turned back I saw both of them doing the Roaring Fork 2 step. I decided to float the rest of the week

Better to do the Roaring Fork 2 step then being run over by a tree. You can't jump over it and I would try ducking under it. Scary situation!

 

[MACFLY]

Better to do the Roaring Fork 2 step then being run over by a tree. You can't jump over it and I would try ducking under it. Scary situation!

On the musky a long time ago we used to see logs coming down the river fairly often. Some were quite large. You normally had plenty of time to get out of the way but a couple of times I just sort of put one leg up and over and managed not to fall in. The one on the Roaring fork was coming at a good clip and me thinks it would have been unwise to attempt a similar manuever.

 

[bkill]

bkill,

" including last years Flood that reached 62,000 cfs."

Where was this and is that number correct? Wow!

Allan

In 2006 the river hit 62,000 cfs..(see link showing annual peak flows from 1914 to present)...Notice that there is only one flood over 30,000 cfs (1951) from 1914 to 1996..Since 1996 there have been 5 Major Flood events over 30,000 cfs... ...http://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/peak?site_no=01420500&agency_cd=USGS&format=hn2

You have to ask, what has changed???

 

[JeffK]

I'm pretty much of the opinion that the Beaverkill isn't "healing" between floods myself. Last year the Delaware in Warren Co. NJ was discolored for over a month from the fine gray clay from the Beaverkill/E Branch. That didn't help the smallie fishing IMHO.

Why is a tougher question. Overdevelopment is an easy target and I usually buy it in NJ, but the Catskill flooding is different. Last years flood originated over Wildcat Mtn, which doesn't seem that developed to me and Walton had a 500 year flood recently and the watershed above Walton is getting less populated. Most of upstate NY other than Tomkpins Co. is losing people. Weather variability is a problem, but I also feel our forests' soils have been degraded by a few cycles of deforestion. ie, in much of the Catskills the original hemlock forests were stripped bare by the tanning industry and the hardwood regrowth was then cleaned off by the wood chemical/acid factory businesses. The result is degraded forests that don't quite function like old growth even though they look like mature forests. How and why isn't really understood, but my gut tells me our current forests are not the sponges they once were and the reasons are much more complex than thinner soil cover. Maybe even earthworms are a problem (earthworms are generally not native to the glaciated parts of the US and earthworms are chewing up the leaf litter in many forests hurting the soils)

 

[MACFLY]

I'm pretty much of the opinion that the Beaverkill isn't "healing" between floods myself. Last year the Delaware in Warren Co. NJ was discolored for over a month from the fine gray clay from the Beaverkill/E Branch. That didn't help the smallie fishing IMHO.

Why is a tougher question. Overdevelopment is an easy target and I usually buy it in NJ, but the Catskill flooding is different. Last years flood originated over Wildcat Mtn, which doesn't seem that developed to me and Walton had a 500 year flood recently and the watershed above Walton is getting less populated. Most of upstate NY other than Tomkpins Co. is losing people. Weather variability is a problem, but I also feel our forests' soils have been degraded by a few cycles of deforestion. ie, in much of the Catskills the original hemlock forests were stripped bare by the tanning industry and the hardwood regrowth was then cleaned off by the wood chemical/acid factory businesses. The result is degraded forests that don't quite function like old growth even though they look like mature forests. How and why isn't really understood, but my gut tells me our current forests are not the sponges they once were and the reasons are much more complex than thinner soil cover. Maybe even earthworms are a problem (earthworms are generally not native to the glaciated parts of the US and earthworms are chewing up the leaf litter in many forests hurting the soils)

Interesting Observation Jeff K. Im not sure about the earthworm scenario. All my discussions with landscape companies have lead me to believe that earthworms are most beneficial to the soil. Normally they will take debris from the top of the soil column down further in the soil column. Its not normally a situation where earthworms rob the soil

 

[AKSkim]

Im not sure about the earthworm scenario.

McFly,

Think about it, if I came up that that theory, I believe you would have contributed it to an over abundance of Corona's.

Hummm.. now I wish I came up with that scenario...

Due to increased earthworm tunneling, 36% of <ST1<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

Corona</st1:City>'s in a single evening.
*
<font face=" /><st1laceName w:st="on">Sullivan</st1laceName> <st1laceName w:st="on">County</st1laceName></ST1 dropped four inches over the past 18 months. Gas production was halted to ensure the future safety of the earthworms, but some environmentalists continue to blame the recent construction of power lines as the main cause.

<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=black>That made me thirsty, I think I'll have an adult beverage, anyone want one while I'm getting up?

<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=black>As always, using any excuse to have a beer with McFly.

<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=black>AK Skim<O</O

 

[JeffK]

The earthworm stuff is gaining credibility, especially for Northern forests (which didn't have earthworms until recently). Earthworms have incredibly positive effects on fields, meadows, and lawns and people have spread them around (mostly accidentally on root stock) to get better agricultural yields. Basically all the glaciated areas lost the worms and worms can only migrate a few meters a year so they have not recolonized most of the former homes (unlike brook trout). They are spread by people and have gotten a pretty good reputation since they significantly increase farm yields. However, they can significantly reduce leaf litter in forests which alters the whole forest floor. In the upper Midwest forests are being hurt by worms. Nearly all our earthworms are European species so it is another case of introduced species altering the native environment with good and bad results.

Just tossed the worm stuff out as an example. However, plenty of NYS is being reforested and it appears to be a mixed bag for flood prevention. Back in the early 70's as a student there was a review of stream flow records in NYS and reforestation was clearly linked to more even stream flows. Most of those forests have kept growing in the last 35 years but the stream flows seem to be getting less even. In the spirit of investigation I wondered whether it is something in the forests in addition to variability in weather.

 

[bkill]

I can see it now:

Worm Unlimited...Dedicated to the protection and conservation of Earthworms and their habitats...

I am all for it...We need to protect our slimy, slithering friends (especially from the evil spinners)...But dont mention this on other fishing websites, you will offend most of the membership...

 

[AKSkim]

(especially from the evil spinners)...But dont mention this on other fishing websites, you will offend most of the membership...

Members from that other site.

What was that movie quote....???

Oh yeah.

"There Here..."

Just in case you haven't noticed.

You have a log carving of a bear you cut with a chain saw you care to show us?

 

[bkill]

Members from that other site.

What was that movie quote....???

Oh yeah.

"There Here..."

Just in case you haven't noticed.

You have a log carving of a bear you cut with a chain saw you care to show us?

There are many websites my friend...I didnt mention any in particular...

No wooden bear...But I am trying to recreate Michelangelo's David out of Oak for your birthday present...

 

[AKSkim]

But I am trying to recreate Michelangelo's David out of Oak for your birthday present...

Whoa..

Now your creeping me out.

Hey, Corndogs birthday is before mine. Give it to him!

 

[bkill]

Now you are confusing me...Corndog is more of a Wooden Indian type of guy..:indian:

Where you seem to be more the Michelangelo type...

 

[AKSkim]

Where you seem to be more the Michelangelo type...

I know I am.. but some people are offended by my brilliance.

or were you referring that I like to just lay on a board and stare at some ceiling?