Casting / Fly Size Question

[Frank19]

Please excuse the newbie question...yesterday was my first time actually fly fishing.

After practicing a few times in the back yard (with a 1" piece of yarn tied on as a fly plug) I felt as though I had my cast good enough to actually try fishing. While out there I had very little trouble casting a #14 caddis however, when I switched to a larger, #8 woolly bugger, I was having a lot more trouble. The fly seemed much heavier on my 5 wt line and seemed to slow the line speed down dramatically. This really messed up the natural rhythm of my cast and caused the fly to snap a lot and even get tangled around the line. Was I simply doing something wrong or is that fly too big for my line?

With regards to what size leader and tippet I was using...unfortunatly, I don't know the answer. I purchased a starter rod that came preloaded with 5 wt line, leader and tippet.

On a positive note, I did catch a number of Bluegills. They actually put up a pretty darn good fight on a 5wt setup .

 

[Pete]

Larger more wind-resistant flys will be easier to cast with a heavier outfit. But a five weight should be fine, for medium size streamers, if you adjust your timing.

Try slowing down the timing of your casting strokes. The bigger fly is moving more slowly (with a light line), than the smaller flys. Don't try for distance, until you get comfortable with the timing.

 

[irish1]

Slow your casting speed. As you noted the larger fly slows your line. I have a problem that I am working on about the time I wait on my back cast. I have noticed I wait longer for the line to straighten on my forward cast than I do on my back cast. As many people will tell you, you can and should turn to watch your back cast. This helps get your back cast timing down. Also try counting the time you wait on your forward cast to straighten and use the same count on your back cast.

Any change in fly size or line length will require you to change your casting speed. 5 yards of line will load the rod faster than 10 yards so the longer the cast, the longer the wait but 5 yards and a big, bushy fly will require a longer "STOP".

Continue to practice and welcome to the dark side.

 

[afishinado]

All good adivce given above. Here is a link to an article on the basics of fly casting, which may help overall. Welcome to our great sport. Good luck.

Fly Fishing Tips - Fly Casting - MidCurrent

 

[onemorecast]

While out there I had very little trouble casting a #14 caddis however, when I switched to a larger, #8 woolly bugger, I was having a lot more trouble. The fly seemed much heavier on my 5 wt line and seemed to slow the line speed down dramatically. This really messed up the natural rhythm of my cast and caused the fly to snap a lot and even get tangled around the line. Was I simply doing something wrong or is that fly too big for my line?

To add to the already good answers you've been given, here's my thoughts on tippet.

The general rule is to change to a larger tippet for the #8 bugger, depending on what you were starting with. There is a chart below that may help you, but take the info with a grain of salt. Some people will tell you they use a narrower range of tippets sizes than what is shown. I know I do.

One thing I will tell you for sure about fly fishing. You will constantly be learning new rhythms and ways to get your fly where you want it to go almost every time you fish. This is because of the countless variations of streamside vegetation, casting position, wind, fly style & size, fishing style, rod length/wt differences, etc. It's all part of the fun!

Very rarely have I had much opportunity to do standard dry fly casts to rising fish, due to where and when I fish. I end up nymphing most of the time and generally only carry 3, 4 and 5X tippet on me at any given time.

The opinions expressed above are the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of the owner of this site or his more knowledgeable members. As we like to say, your mileage may vary.

 

[jphardy]

I didn't check if this was in one of the responses.

I quick formula to remember as rule of thumb is to divide your fly size by 3 to know know what tippet size to use.

size 14 caddis = 4/5 x tippet

size 8 bugger = 2/3 x tippet

Also to remember what the x factor in tippet = in lbs breaking strength.

Subtract X from 9.

3x tippet = 6lbs breaking strength
5x tippet = 4lbs breaking strength

Those formulas helped me when I started.

Good luck.

JP

 

[Frank19]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. What you are all saying about slowing down my casting speed must be the issue. Thinking about it, my casting rhythm for the bigger woolly bugger was just as fast as for the lighter dry flies. One big problem I was having was that I was changing the direction of my rod before the line had a chance to stop as irish1 suggested. That was causing an "s" like shape in the line and which is probably why it was making a snapping sound and twisting itself.

I'll give it another try next time I'm out there. I just wanted to eliminate the possibility that the process was not feasible given my equipment before attempting to work on the cast itself.

Thanks!!!

 

[Frank19]

I didn't check if this was in one of the responses.

I quick formula to remember for rule of thumb is to divide your fly size by 3 to know know what tippet size to use.

size 14 caddis = 4/5 x tippet

size 8 bugger = 2/3 x tippet

Also to remember what the x factor in tippet = in lbs breaking strength.

Subtract X from 9.

3x tippet = 6lbs breaking strength
5x tippet = 4lbs breaking strength

Those formulas helped me when I started.

Good luck.

JP

Thanks, that makes it much easier. All the options seemed overwhelming at first. I haven't actually bought a tippet yet (my setup came pre-loaded with one). I need to buy more though and this info will really help.

 

[Bert Brehm]

I had very little trouble casting a #14 caddis however, when I switched to a larger, #8 woolly bugger, I was having a lot more trouble.

The caddis is essentially weightless. Most woolly buggers are weighted with a bead head or lead wire wrapped on the shank or both.

Do not false cast a weighted fly. Make one smooth back cast and then present the bugger on the forward cast only.

If you need more distance, then learn to shoot some line. Strip an additional 5 feet off the reel and hold the loops in your line hand. Now make the same cast allowing the loose coils to be carried out with the forward cast.

 

[Frank19]

The caddis is essentially weightless. Most woolly buggers are weighted with a bead head or lead wire wrapped on the shank or both.

Do not false cast a weighted fly. Make one smooth back cast and then present the bugger on the forward cast only.

If you need more distance, then learn to shoot some line. Strip an additional 5 feet off the reel and hold the loops in your line hand. Now make the same cast allowing the loose coils to be carried out with the forward cast.

Haha...that could be another problem right there...didn't know you couldn't false cast the weighted ones. Won't do that again.

 

[eddavidson9]

it's not that you can't...it's just much harder to do so successfully

 

[Hllywd76]

Thanks, that makes it much easier. All the options seemed overwhelming at first. I haven't actually bought a tippet yet (my setup came pre-loaded with one). I need to buy more though and this info will really help.

You will need to buy some leaders not tippet. You will also need to buy some tippet rolls. The leader is what is attached to your fly line the tippet is the basically the last few feet of the leader depending on make and leader lenght. You should ask the fly shop where you puchase the leaders and tippet how to set this up. Basically you add tippet to the leader so you are not replacing the leader after cutting off and changing your fly multiple times. saves you money in the long run.

See the thread who's your leader by AKSkim good information as you sort through it.

Hllywd

 

[Bert Brehm]

it's not that you can't...it's just much harder to do so successfully

Ed is correct. I shouldn't have been quite so dogmatic, but excessive false casting usually leads to grief. Reminds me of the ol' Polish sex manual. "In, out, repeat if necessary."

 

[biggerthomas]

Frank, practice cast slowly enough so that you can really learn to feel the load point of the rod. I remember hearing good casters always talk about that point but I never really new what it was until I felt it for myself. It is a point in the forward cast where the momentum in the cast is no longer coming from you but rather from the rod wanting to bend forward. Once you feel that, the rod will do all the work and deliver a nice cast. Timing is pretty important in casting so just get out there and practice it until it comes naturally...don't worry, it took all of us a while to get it down too!
Good luck!

 

[Randyflycaster]

I have a somewhat different take. When I'm trying to cast weighted flies mid- or long-range distances I actually speed up my casts. If I don't I won't have enough power to keep my loops relatively tight. To prevent the fly from bouncing at the end of the cast and adding slack to the line, I begin each cast before the false cast completely unrolls.

For me, one of the challenges of casting a weighted fly is finding the right amount of casting power to use. If I cast too hard for the amount of line I have out, the fly will bounce. If I cast too slowly I won't have enough power to carry enough line in the air.

Randy

 

[Burtbords149]

Fly rod speed isn't the key to tight loops although it may help. Stopping your rod on a dime will give you a tight loop.

BUT you don't always want a tight loops with heavy flies. I like a wide open loops and just lob in the so the weighted fly has no chance of getting tangled with the leader.