Time to dump some h20?

[Future Fanatic]

I know that many of you here have predicted a great fall for fishing the Delaware(s), but are there any thoughts about how the predicted deluge might affect those prognostications? Is there any precedent for the city to start letting loose some water in advance of the rain (there's no sign of it yet)? The reservoirs are about 98% full as it is; that does not leave much room to hold back the rivers from the flooding that might ensue! Does anyone want to look ahead and size up what all this water we've had this season might mean for the spring?

 

[JasonM]

I don't think you need to worry about spring. With the hurricane coming you might need to worry about next week. This could screw up all of the fall fishing.

 

[JOE.T]

If we get another hurricane like we did a few years back(Floyd),you cant release enough water to off set 7-14 inches of rain.Each inch equals about 5% capacity in the cannonsville.There will be flooding if the strom hits us direct.

Do you really think NYC will release 20% or more water in anticipation of a storm??

I DONT THINK SO.

What we need is another resevoir!

Jason your right this storm will screw up fall fishing for a while.

Spring well for the rivers that are stocked it bodes well for a great holdover season next year.

 

[Future Fanatic]

This may seem like a stupid question, but are the aquatic "bugs" more likely to do well when there is an abundance of water, or does it inhibit there life cycle in any way? How much water can be handled by the river channels, before scouring (or siltation)affects them in negative ways?

 

[Future Fanatic]

Hopefully, there is an image attached with this. It seems that it is not a question of if it hits...

 

[NJFred]

Given the resevior's current level, it looks pretty "dam" clear as if there will be some flooding. Question is how much. I'm sure others can shed some light on things, but I seem to recall too much water, partciularly way too much water, can damage insect populations. Obviously... droughts and floods are part of mother natures' cycle. It's been going on since the beginning of time. in the long run the trout and bugs will be fine regardless of what happens and it's impact on the system.

 

[bjmiller]

Really it just depends on how much rain we get out of this. We got between 5.5 - 6.0 inches of rain at my house (eastern Catskills)in a 3 day span earlier in the month. The Beaverkill crested at about 13,800 CFS and in less than one week returned to under 400 CFS. If we're lucky though, we won't get as much as we did earlier.

 

[JOE.T]

Future its not a stupid question its actually a good one.

I dont know of any Aquatic insects that do better from high water or where it inhibits there life cycle.It would have to be very severe over aperiod of time.

I know one thing is for sure we had Floods in the 80's and the fishing was great after that.

We had the flood in 96(with ice) and the next two seasons where great,and in 98 we had floyd and 99 was a good season as well.

Actually in some cases high water will actually "clean" the river out so to speak.

Than came a drought 00/01 and things have been on the down swing since then.

Ill take a flood over a drought.

 

[Scott]

I believe Joe T. to be correct concerning the cleaning action of floods.

*Disclamer*: the following is conjecture on my part -

I have been told that the great flood of 1955 pretty much wiped out green drakes on the upper brodhead. It also pretty much wiped out almost every bridge across the Delaware. In fact, it wiped out a lot...

A recent observation of nymphal shucks found in relative abundancy below slow, silted pools on the upper part of the Brodhead would seem to me to show that they are making a good comeback - but it's taken almost 50 years - provided the shucks I found were green drakes. I have one in my flybox, I haven't had time to look it up yet.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[willowhead]

All this talk of flooding is starting to make me very nervous. I have a brook and a river for two property lines and it floods here. I sure hope that Hurricane diminishes it's strength when it hits land. We just do NOT need any more water, at least for a while now. And last i looked the reservoirs were over 100% full, not 98%. Pepacton has been spilling over the top for days. Keep us in your prayers. mark(willow)

 

[JOE.T]

Back in the 40's there was terrible flooding and ICE jams in the catskills.

Not only did insect pops get devastated but so did the fish,bridges etc..

However it did not take that long fot the insect pops to come back.

A general rule of thumb is 4 years if the insects where prolific.

Out west they do crank up the releases big time on certain rivers to "cleanse" the river from silt and muck and weeds in the fall.

I find it hard to beleive that any flood could wipe out an entire insect population for 50 years especially if the genera was prolific in that region.

If the insects where prolific in the area than I am sure some survived not only in other streans but the ponds and lakes as well?

 

[Future Fanatic]

Aside from flooding, do you think that the abundance of water over the course of the entire season this year was a positive thing for insects and fish? Did the water create a healthy environment for them to thrive in? I know that it was better than a drought, but looking at things long term, is "more water" better than average flows?

 

[bjmiller]

Joe T.,
About an earlier comment you made, 'What we need is another reservoir', another res sounds good but at what cost? We have one on the East and West branches of the D, the Esopus, the Schoharie and the Neversink, where would you put it, on the Beaverkill or the Willowemoc? Besides, land would have to be bought and people would have to be displaced and I would not want to be in that position. I think a bigger problem is that 'supposedly' more than 10% of the water going down the tunnels never makes it to the City due to leaks. Money would be better spent fixing what we have. Unfortunately that would not mean that the fishery would benefit, someone would still have to open valves.

 

[JOE.T]

First they are fixing the leaks.

Second I said We need another resevoir getting another is a different story.

Its a pipe dream of mine.

If it were possible I would have a second one with a capacity of 20 billion gallons.That water would be for the river(west branch and main stem) and for thermal protection only.I would put it up in the vicinity of the cannopnsville this way when there is such an excess and over flow it coyld be diverted into the (fishery resevoir).

Again its a great idea that nobody would pay for.

Fanatic this year was great for aquatic insects.I dont think you need more water you just need avg flows that will cover the river from bank to bank. 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.

 

[Scott]

I should say I was told the green drake hatch "ain't nothing like it used to be" before the Great Flood of '55. I haven't been around that long, so I guess as my evidence is based on hearsay, it is probably inadmissable. Actually, nothing is what it used to be...

I would think that anchor ice is far worse for fish than a flood.

 

[willowhead]

We have an old foot bridge embuntment on our property from what is now a no longer existing bridge. Mary Dette says she used to cross over it to play over on what is now our property when she was a little girl. I think she said ice is what took it out and it was in the 60's. Does anyone know any more about this? SCOTT! where did you get that fish??????? mark(willow)