As the temperatures drop and the water drops and stays clear, I'm wondering what approach I should take as I hit the sream. I.E. leader length, distance between me and fish, slack,weight, etc. Still feeling my way with fly-fishing and hpoe to take the next step in the spring.
Give us a try!
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The Autumn approach
- Thread starter sonny
- Start date
Sonny:
Very good question and I have hopes it will draw a lot of quality responses from the other fly fishers here at NEFF.
Start with your approach to the stream, never just walk up and wade right to the tail out or pool. You would be surprised at the number of trout that will "hug" the banks. By steping into the stream you would have sent them off running in a flash. Watch the stream for a few minutes, you may even see movement of fish and fish that spot. In the fall and winter I like to look for small gravel or sandy areas in the stream, an indication of a feeder spring. The water entering will be warmer in winter than the stream temperature, and in summer cooler than the stream.
Sight fishing if clear, you have to put the fly right on the trouts nose for them to take in most cases. If you don't make your own knotted leaders, consider switching over from trout to Bonefish leaders. They are longer (12 ft) that what you can purchase for trout at most fly shops.
Fluorocarbon tippets and leaders are great in the warm waters, but I have heard that in the extream cold waters of the winter they become brittle. I have no proof of this and would be interested in hearing others point of view on this topic. Until then, I will in most cases continue to use it, except in the case of salmon, they tend not to be leader shy.
As always, enjoy fishing in winter.
AK Skim
Very good question and I have hopes it will draw a lot of quality responses from the other fly fishers here at NEFF.
Start with your approach to the stream, never just walk up and wade right to the tail out or pool. You would be surprised at the number of trout that will "hug" the banks. By steping into the stream you would have sent them off running in a flash. Watch the stream for a few minutes, you may even see movement of fish and fish that spot. In the fall and winter I like to look for small gravel or sandy areas in the stream, an indication of a feeder spring. The water entering will be warmer in winter than the stream temperature, and in summer cooler than the stream.
Sight fishing if clear, you have to put the fly right on the trouts nose for them to take in most cases. If you don't make your own knotted leaders, consider switching over from trout to Bonefish leaders. They are longer (12 ft) that what you can purchase for trout at most fly shops.
Fluorocarbon tippets and leaders are great in the warm waters, but I have heard that in the extream cold waters of the winter they become brittle. I have no proof of this and would be interested in hearing others point of view on this topic. Until then, I will in most cases continue to use it, except in the case of salmon, they tend not to be leader shy.
As always, enjoy fishing in winter.
AK Skim
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serotonin
Fish your Face off
I've never had that problem.
Tippet and leader Materials are probably the LAST things I worry about in the Winter.
If you keep her in the water, she won't stiffen up like Job's Wife.
And if she does... you're probably not fishing enough!
Don't Look Back!!!
*
Autumn approach is different.
Alot depends on the Water you're fishing.
Today I fished an Olive hatch in Low, Clear water on a small spring-fed stream. Size 20-22 emergers and duns.
In this case... long leader and lotsa slack...
The wild Browns were rising and things went OK; but I kinda wished I had a Three-weight instead of a Four.
Softer presentation, etc... Fish were Spooky.
I rarely entered the water. But even still... the fish were buggin' out when I walked the banks.
Air-Soles in my Bloody Boots, woulda been better!!!
Didn't matter so much in the faster water.
(ie.) You can get away with big fluffy dries in Rippin' Adirondack pocket-water... Standing right on top of the fish... Autumnally.
Add a size 18 nymphal dropper (in GBS Blue) if they don't wanna rise.
Sonny... which rivers/streams are you thinking of fishing this Fall...?
Male Browns tend to get really aggressive before and after Spawn.
You can **** 'em off w/a huge Bugger or Streamer. I also like to drop a bh larva or nymph off the Bugger's Bend. Get 'em down in deeper water w/mends and/or shot/or weighted flies, and let 'em swing slowly up through likely lies.
Females seem to go off the feed for a while. After spawning and patrolling their redds, I think they are too exhausted to compete w/the males. They seem to hide out for a month in the less likelier lies. They want nothing to do w/the males that just brutalized them. They hang out in spots where they usually won't. And then they get HUNGRY again!
Anyhow, make sure to use a heavier tippet if you're stripping streamers. 0X-4X depending how large the available fish are. Seven feet of total leader/tippet works for me. I use my burned-out dry-fly leaders.
As the water gets colder, you'll probably wanna go deeper. Buggers, Stones, nymphs and Larvae. Beads, shot, Coneheads, etc.
Fish slower. I tend to go to 4-5X, even on 20" fish. No problem.
Well... sometimes Problem. Usually not.
Leader/tippet length, 7-9 feet.
That's all for now.
The other guys will chime in soon. If you give 'em an idea of the streams you'll be fishing, I'm sure you'll get some very good responses. Cheers, and Good Luck!
:dizzy:
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All above is excellent advice and I wouldn't quibble with it in any detail. However, I will chime in with just do it. Fall streams can often be low and clear and the fish have been fished for all summer. It is not always easy fishing and I would start out with long leaders and subtle flies and techniques. If that isn't working - try to wake up some aggressive fish with a streamer or bugger. Don't worry about the leaves - get out there and learn.
The wade as little as possible it key in the Fall and not a bad idea all year. Just this Saturday I was chatting with another angler after seeing guy after guy whip on their waders and march right into the stream where the fish were holding. Before getting near the water think and watch! I quite often see fish dart away when I am observing from far above the stream taking cover behind trees - what happens when one barges right in! I fish Finger Lakes tribs and people often say the lake run fish are not spooky. But my observation is that the guys who catch nearly all the fish stalk them very, very quietly.
It's hunting season - act like you are hunting the trout. Scope out the area, make a plan, and stalk your prey.
If you are fishing in a heavily hunted area wear orange (at least one of those orange watch caps). I know it isn't camoflage and it may spook some fish, but it's better to be safe.
The wade as little as possible it key in the Fall and not a bad idea all year. Just this Saturday I was chatting with another angler after seeing guy after guy whip on their waders and march right into the stream where the fish were holding. Before getting near the water think and watch! I quite often see fish dart away when I am observing from far above the stream taking cover behind trees - what happens when one barges right in! I fish Finger Lakes tribs and people often say the lake run fish are not spooky. But my observation is that the guys who catch nearly all the fish stalk them very, very quietly.
It's hunting season - act like you are hunting the trout. Scope out the area, make a plan, and stalk your prey.
If you are fishing in a heavily hunted area wear orange (at least one of those orange watch caps). I know it isn't camoflage and it may spook some fish, but it's better to be safe.
sqerl
Learning Latin
Ya know, this is a great topic.... fish slow and low in the winter...
I got out on Friday for a little bit and was perplexed on why I couldn't catch any fish! I thought for sure that the section of the South Branch that I was fishing wasnt stocked. Not only was I skunked, but so were a half dozen other fellows that passed through. Then finally one guy, having stayed in one place for a few hours, managed to catch a huge rainbow on powerbait. I was nymphing a tan body/black head about 18" down and a caddis pattern 18" below that... I also varied the depths, presentation speed and really tried to keep my movements to a minimum... tough fishing in the fall indeed....
on a seperate note, I saw some movement close to shore and wasnt sure if it was fish or animal... so I stepped ever so carefully up to the spot and to my surprise, it was 2 large trout! Even though I was literally 2 feet away, they didnt spook.... the poor things must be sick though as there was a lot of white and possible infection (growth) on both their tails and jaws.
Otherwise, it was great to be in the water on Friday
I got out on Friday for a little bit and was perplexed on why I couldn't catch any fish! I thought for sure that the section of the South Branch that I was fishing wasnt stocked. Not only was I skunked, but so were a half dozen other fellows that passed through. Then finally one guy, having stayed in one place for a few hours, managed to catch a huge rainbow on powerbait. I was nymphing a tan body/black head about 18" down and a caddis pattern 18" below that... I also varied the depths, presentation speed and really tried to keep my movements to a minimum... tough fishing in the fall indeed....
on a seperate note, I saw some movement close to shore and wasnt sure if it was fish or animal... so I stepped ever so carefully up to the spot and to my surprise, it was 2 large trout! Even though I was literally 2 feet away, they didnt spook.... the poor things must be sick though as there was a lot of white and possible infection (growth) on both their tails and jaws.
Otherwise, it was great to be in the water on Friday
jcstikfish
NJ Nymph Guy
As usual, I find targeting the correct water to be one of the most imporatant factors when approching autumn fishing.
If you had a good day mid-september, chances are you will have a tough day if you return mid-October and fish the same water.
As the water is cooling, trout are dropping back out of the areas of high aeration/oxygen that they needed to be in in order to survive the summer. (At least that is case here in NJ)
This is part of the reason that fish tend to be more spooky in the fall. Yes, the flows are low and clear, but, more importantly (IMHO) the fish are holding in "quieter" water, often with a much flatter surface. Making them more vulnerable and therefore "spookier".
Unless I am fishing a very small fly, I stick with 5X.
A few of my favorite fall patternns are Iso. nymphs, partridge and orange soft hackles and various caddis larvae.
During the next few weeks when there will be a ton of leaves in the water, stick with flies that have some non-leaf qualities to it. White caddis larvae (for example) look nothing like a small bit of a leaf and will stand out to the fish as a sure source or protein, not just another piece of leaf to run through the digestive system.
Blue is a great steelhead color and stream rainbows will also respond to it as well. So.. blue is another good non-leaf color to incorporate into you autumn flies.
~James
If you had a good day mid-september, chances are you will have a tough day if you return mid-October and fish the same water.
As the water is cooling, trout are dropping back out of the areas of high aeration/oxygen that they needed to be in in order to survive the summer. (At least that is case here in NJ)
This is part of the reason that fish tend to be more spooky in the fall. Yes, the flows are low and clear, but, more importantly (IMHO) the fish are holding in "quieter" water, often with a much flatter surface. Making them more vulnerable and therefore "spookier".
Unless I am fishing a very small fly, I stick with 5X.
A few of my favorite fall patternns are Iso. nymphs, partridge and orange soft hackles and various caddis larvae.
During the next few weeks when there will be a ton of leaves in the water, stick with flies that have some non-leaf qualities to it. White caddis larvae (for example) look nothing like a small bit of a leaf and will stand out to the fish as a sure source or protein, not just another piece of leaf to run through the digestive system.
Blue is a great steelhead color and stream rainbows will also respond to it as well. So.. blue is another good non-leaf color to incorporate into you autumn flies.
~James
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theartoflee
Anadromous Angler
Sonny when I fish in the winter I have pruned down my techniques used to primarily three. I will list them in the order at which I usually resort to them. How may you ask do I decide which one to use? Only after observing the water first. I know others have mentioned how important it is to observe the water first but neither of us can emphasis the importance of observation enough.
If I see rising fish I go right to diptera or midges. Effective patterns are tiny olives 22-24. Al's Rat or griffiths gnats. This season I may add a few more flies after having read Ed Kotchs book midge magic. The distance I keep is entirely dependent on my comfort level. How far do I feel I can effectively present a fly drag free. I usually approach the water upstream first since I prefer a down stream presentation.
If I do not see rising fish and am fishing knee to waist deep pockets/pools I will fish either a sinking leader to 12lb tippet or a sinking line 120gr+ to 12lb tippet. Rford has taught me that heavy tippet is not an issue when streamer fishing. My go to fly in the past has been a black zuddler big like a size 4. I also like a size 2 pattern that Jeff White developed. This season I will give the gray ghost a shot and think its going to produce well. The way I like to work my streamers is to hit the far bank swing or dead drift the fly through the pocket till its directly below me then slowly strip and twitch the fly back to me working the bank that I am on. I do not like to give action to the fly till it is directly below me.
If I am going to nymph in faster water I will use shami worms as they have been extremely productive for me in winter depending on the river. I will usually fish two one in a size 12 or 14 the other in size 18-20. The amount of weight you use entirely depend on the water. I take an entirely different approach to my nymphs then streamer. I like to go small with my nyphs and will fish Pheasant tails primarily. I start off with two in two different sizes once I figure the best size I will remove one and fish a single nymph.
Those three techniques are most productive for ME although I am certain you can catch fish with other techniques. When the weather gets nasty and :cold: I tend to have some of my best fishing of the season. Just remember no matter how good your tackle and technique is it will be worthless if you are not comfortable. Dress appropriate try searching for AKSkims old thread winter fishing that could prove to be more helpful.
One last suggestion is do not throw your fish on the bank in the winter if you need to take a picture... try and keep the fish in the water.
Undertaker Don
Trout Whisperer
Those fish didn't bite well on Fri or Sat--Cause they just put most of them in -They don't even know what a fly is----& the smart holdovers or natives are spooked from all the new bretheren & also the openig dayers in Oct. plowing thru there homes with boots & spinners & P.B & worms --there should be as law-----
