Simms Waders

[Eagle Claw]

I purchased a pair of Simms waders last fall and have now completed one year of using them. I rinse them with a hose inside and out immediately after a day of fishing, dry them inside and out and never store them in my trunk or extreme temperatures. After on year, they are leakers. I returned them to Simms and got a reply they had moderate wear, and had pin holes in the body, minor seam leak and the feet needed to be replaced, all for the bargain price of $100 on top of the $13 I spent to send them back. I told them to go ahead and repair them and that I would use them for spares and was very disappointed and planned to go on some forums to advertise their product for what it is, comfortable, overpriced waders that hold up no better than anything else. I had a pair of Orvis waders that leaked after 2-1/2 years, sent them back for repair, received them back and they still leaked, sent them back again and got a new pair free. They were $200 cheaper, lasted more than double the time ,had built in gravel guards and nice pockets and got a new pair back when the free repair failed. I got no reply back from Simms customer service to try to make me a happy camper even after telling them I would advertise their product on fourms. Seems to me that is penny wise and pound foolish. My next pair will be Dan Baily, they have a reputation for not leaking, have lots of nice features like, built in gravel guards, and lots of pockets and coming out with even more nice features on 2008 that are not yet for publication. So how did Simms make out by doing me wrong, they saved $100 in repair costs and had me tell perhaps 1,000 that they basicly suck. Sounds to me like penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[AKSkim]

Mr. LL Bean.

Never any question on returns, repairs and replacements.. and they don't even charge you...

My chest waders, guide pants, and 5.5 mm neoprene are all LL Bean.

I guess I can honestly say.. I have spent my last dime on a pair of waders.

Ever.

As always, no worries in life....

AK Skim

 

[theartoflee]

EC

I thought with simms warranty the first repair is on them. You should ask them if that might be applicable to the most expensive repair they preformed on your waders and deduct that from the total cost for the repair. I recently bought the G3 waders from simms and feel they are an inferior product! I am on my third pairs in less then 1 year. The first two pairs had issues in one was in their first week the other after less then a month Simms found the first two pairs to be defective. The third pair leaks the tippet tender pocket has broken. They are a far cry from Simms original guide model waders. When I sent the Guide model back to simms it cost me over a hundred dollars to repair them. I dont think simms make them like they used to. In my opinon that is why they have there 90 day no questions asked policy. If something goes wrong in 90 days they give you a new pair no questions asked. Is that there solution to quality control?

When you get the Dan Bailey waders you will not have the same issues you are experiencing now. They rarely leak and if they do take them to the dealer you purchsed them from and they will give you a new pair no questions asked.

Its funny you say how comfortable the Simms waders are. Everyone says they are the most comfortable waders but I disagree. How comfortable is it when they are leaking while you are fishing in January?

 

[afishinado]

I bought a pair of Simms Guide waders and had a similar experience with them leaking after a few months. I had them repaired once, and had to pay for shipping. They began leaking again before the end of that season. I fixed them myself and now use them as a back-up. I have been using a pair of Orvis Pro-Guides without a leak for going on 3 seasons. I have never had a reason to send them back, but judging from my past experience dealing with Orvis, I’m confident that their customer service will take care of me. Also, my experience with LL Bean’s customer service has been at least as good as Orvis. One thing I will say is that IMO, the Simms are made of lighter more comfortable material than most other waders, but at a sacrifice in durability. When it comes to waders, I’ve found that opinions vary widely, depending on the person’s own experience. I would try to find a pair of waders that fit well and are comfortable, are known to be durable, and are backed by a decent company.

 

[dwing]

Simms problems? My brother has a pair of Simms & they look a mess... he doesnt really take care of them.. 6 seasons old.. just sprung his 1st leak this year. I'm ending my 4th season & have no leaks in my Simms. Why are you washing them inside & out each time? I just hang dry by the suspenders during the season & store them rolled (not folded) in a plastic bag in closet during off season. I talked to a guy this season who wore out the inseems on his Simms from all the hiking he does.. sent them to Simms & they replaced free of charge.

 

[Eagle Claw]

Why do I wash them, because I like to get off any small pebbles or abrasive dirt that the waders picked up from the water to the car. I rinse the inside to get all the body salts from sweat off the inside and prefer to air dry from both sides to get all the moisture off so I dont get any mold. Do you find somthing wrong with a little extra care ? Thats what pisses me off the most,
I take better care than most people do and they leak, and Simms wants to charge me $100 bucks to repair them. I treat fly lines the same, cleaning them after two or three times and wiping off my rods and guides with Armorall
after two or three outings. I also rinse and dry flys before putting them away.
I just like taking care of stuff, thats just me.

 

[Lucci]

I had the same problems with my G3 Simms waders. When I sent them back becuase they were leaking after 8 months of use, after having paid the shipping, they wanted to charge me $80+ to repair them. (As a side note, the leaks were a manufacturing defect and not caused by me. The seams between the neoprene booty and wader leg were leaking on both legs. They had to replace both neoprene booties, but still wanted to charge me, trying to claim it was wear and tear that they were not responsible for. Ridiculous!) I wrote back telling them not to repair them, that I would never buy another Simms product again, and that I would write to every forum I subscribe to that the guarantee was worthless. Thereafter, I promptly received an email that they would repair the waders at no cost. In the past I had been happy with Simms and their customer service, but I am not sure I will purchase anything from them again; something has changed. It really aggravated me that after having purchased so much from them that they were going to squeeze every penny they could out of me, and that they were not fulfilling their obligations under their guarantee to boot. That is not how you treat a loyal customer.

 

[CR]

It's a shame to hear about not only the drop in quality of SIMMS' product, but also the awful customer service. That's double the reason to go elsewhere.

I owned a pair of SIMMS lightweight Gore Tex waders for 6 years and put them through all kinds of torture. Multiple trips to Alaska, Oregon, Montana, Arkansas, NY, NJ, PA, etc. They did not leak once. I was astounded with the high quality and was almost looking forward to seeing what it would take to make them leak. I found out this past winter: a family of mice had eaten through them.

I did not purchase SIMMS to replace them. I don't fish nearly as much anymore due to having young children, and so I could not justify the high price. I bought Patagonia and have been very happy thus far.

Hearing the negative reports has reinforced that I made the right choice.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I sent them three emails and they have failed to respond. The last one I told them to check out this site to see the negative things people are saying and they still have no comments. Aparently they don't give a rats ass about what people say or think, that is a big statement in itself by not replying. You would think they would at least get back to me and say we are sorry you feel this way and try to at least explain their warrantee, instead nothing, that says a lot. By the way, I am perfectly willing to eat everything I said and report a good result if that happens but I dont think so judging by their interest to date.

 

[Lucci]

I sent them three emails and they have failed to respond. The last one I told them to check out this site to see the negative things people are saying and they still have no comments. Aparently they don't give a rats ass about what people say or think, that is a big statement in itself by not replying. You would think they would at least get back to me and say we are sorry you feel this way and try to at least explain their warrantee, instead nothing, that says a lot. By the way, I am perfectly willing to eat everything I said and report a good result if that happens but I dont think so judging by their interest to date.

First off, the feet and seam leaks should be covered by their warranty, if I am not mistaken, and I would hold them to that. It is absurd for them to say that that this is normal wear and tear for what is considered a higher end wader. If that is the case, I'd rather save myself a few hundred dollars and stick with a lower end company. That way I do not have to spend over $200.00 to replace waders each year.

The pinholes may not be covered, depending on wader. However, they are easy to find and fix. Spray rubbing alcohol in the areas you think you have leaks. Then turn them inside out and you will see where the alcohol is absorbing through. There are your leaks. Use a wader patch kit to fix them. If you feel you can do this on your own, you can tell them to forego the pin hole repairs.

Now if you do not want them to do the work at their stated price, and think you can get the repaired somewhere else for cheaper (or even if you can't), tell them that they do not have your consent to fix the waders and to mail them back. Thus far, you have only mailed them in, as per their policy (read a bit between the lines), to have them evaluated and not have work done on them. This is the standard operating procedure for these types of transactions (same as when you bring your car in to have it repaired--they tell what is wrong, quote you a price, and then you essentially create a contract based on that price). If you do not like their offer, do not let them fix it. If they refuse to send them back, you can file a complaint with the Department of Consumer Affairs in the state in which they are located or incorporated. You can do it on-line (usually) but it will take some time to get a result. I would log all your emails and conversations with them. This may give you some room to negotiate with them. Remember, just because they quoted you a price doesn't mean you have to pay it. Your stance should be that it is covered and should not have to pay for what they warranted.

One last point, if they are not answering your emails, call them; and call them and call them...remember what they say about the squeaky wheel.

 

[AKSkim]

The last one I told them to check out this site to see the negative things people are saying and they still have no comments.

You have tried your best to first inform them of a problem, and after non-response from the company.. it generally will turn to anger and regret. Par for the course.

However, I suggest you phone them directly and express your concerns and frustration at their customer service. Politely and professionally of course. You'll catch more bees with honey.. or so I am told.

Still no satisfactory out come...

Then take off the kids gloves and send the local Better Business Bureau in your area, and Simms home base BBB a complaint.

Action... Lads... we will have A-C-T-I-O-N....

You can be well assured that they do know we in the "east" blog a lot and they are more than willing to put up with it.

As always, more than willing to do a little rabble rousing when needed...

AK Skim

 

[AKSkim]

However, they are easy to find and fix. Spray rubbing alcohol in the areas you think you have leaks. Then turn them inside out and you will see where the alcohol is absorbing through. There are your leaks. Use a wader patch kit to fix them. If you feel you can do this on your own, you can tell them to forego the pin hole repairs.

... you can file a complaint with the Department of Consumer Affairs in the state in which they are located or incorporated.

.... I would log all your emails and conversations with them. This may give you some room to negotiate with them. Remember, just because they quoted you a price doesn't mean you have to pay it. Your stance should be that it is covered and should not have to pay for what they warranted.

I read your post and feel that you have missed the point.

He has to do none of this..

They should honor their warranty without question, without jumping through hoops, constant e-mails, lengthy negations, redemption of your IRA's, threats of blogging sad reports plus taking your time in paying for the repairs, which should have cost you nothing in the first place, and worse of all............. doing the repairs yourself !!!!

As always, rather spend my free time reading the latest LL Bean Fly Fishing Mag...

AK Skim

 

[Lucci]

I read your post and feel that you have missed the point.

He has to do none of this..

They should honor their warranty without question, without jumping through hoops, constant e-mails, lengthy negations, redemption of your IRA's, threats of blogging sad reports plus taking your time in paying for the repairs, which should have cost you nothing in the first place, and worse of all............. doing the repairs yourself !!!!

As always, rather spend my free time reading the latest LL Bean Fly Fishing Mag...

AK Skim

I have to disagree with you. I don't think I missed the point at all. You are 100% correct: he should not have to do anything to get what was presented to him as warranted. However, the reality is they are not doing the right thing. If we could always count on people to do the right things we would have no need for a constitution, government, laws, a judicial system, the military, police, etc., etc. But like I said, they are not doing the right thing, and he can either enforce his rights (which he does have under the Consumer Fraud Act and the Magneuson-Moss Warranty Act), fix the problem himself or find someone else to do it at a better price, or do nothing and hope all turns out well--I guess if you are a dreamer and live in fantasy land this could work.

Furthermore, I can't understand the contradiction of your posts. You tell me that he should not have to do any of the things I suggested, but in your previous post state that he should file a BBB complaint(????) after I said to file a complaint with the Dep. of Consumer Affairs, and basically reiterate things I told him to do. Your criticism makes no sense to me. I believe I presented to him a civil way to try get a just result. I suppose he could just do a little "rabble rousing" as you put it, but I don't think he is going to get the result he wants.

All I was trying to do is present a possible solution to a fellow fisherman to an aggravating situation. More importantly, whether or not he should have to do it is a moot point. Regardless of whether or not, philosophically/theoretically/ideally, he should have to do it is meaningless for him at this point. He wants his waders fixed, and the only way this will happen is if he acts, whether or not he should have to do what needs to be done. People who act in this world are the ones who get results, not those who try to wax intellectual on what we should or should not have to do.

As always, willing to point out who really missed the point,

Lucci

 

[Future Fanatic]

The last time I leafed through the Consumer Fraud Act, I believe I saw in the fine print, buried somewhere in the bowels of that bloated document, a provision that allowed for punching the "non-honorer of the warranty" in the nose.

I'm no lawyer or nothin' but I think you can hop on a plane, head on out to Bozeman, head on over to Simms, find the person you spoke to on the phone, or better yet, go right upstairs and find "Mr. Simms". Then, pop him in the nose.

Exit the building, find the nearest trout stream(it's Montana;it shouldn't be hard), rig up, and start casting until the Staties arrive.

It'll feel good...

 

[Eagle Claw]

In all fairness, I can't find my receipt of purchase and the warrantee says
30 days full refund for any reason and 1 year on everything else, that does not change the fact the boot foot replacement and seam wear should not occur in a years time. The pinholes in the body may be legitimate if I walked through some sticker bushes. I will not buy Simms again, big mistake when there are so many good customer service oriented companies out there. That being said, we should not take unreasonable advantage of those companies or those deals will go away. Stuff should wear out at some point and we should not expect replacements for as long as we live. However, top of the line Simms waders should not have seam and boot foot problems after a year of moderate use. I think my view point is perfectly reasonable, as for Simms, they could have avoided the negative press by just caring enough to email me back or calling me to work out something we could both live with. I induct Simms into the Hall OF SHAME. Enough said, done with this thread and Simms.

 

[Lucci]

That being said, we should not take unreasonable advantage of those companies or those deals will go away. Stuff should wear out at some point and we should not expect replacements for as long as we live.

I didn't see that suggested in anyone's post. I don't feel people should be taking advantage of companies, but I also do not feel companies should be taking advantage of the consumer, which is what I see happening to you. Implied and Express Warranties/Guarantees are not just some abstract concept that companies can throw out there to lure customers in, and then when they are called on them, decide they are not going to honor them. If you do not want to do anything about it and flush that money down the toilet, that's your perogative. However, there is also nothing wrong with holding people to their word, and you should not feel guilty doing so.

 

[AKSkim]

Yesterday I happened into a fly shop and they had a pair of Simms waders hanging there (however, not in effigy). I wasn't all too interested in the construction or materials of the waders, I was interested in the tag dangling from the suspenders. The warranty card. Interesting reading I must say. I attempted to put to memory the warranty... but now with the advent of the internet I would just look it up and post it.

At Simms, we stand behind everything we make. If your Simms product fails due to workmanship or material defect during the life of the product, please return it to us for repair or replacement. This warranty does not cover damages caused by improper care, accidents or the natural breakdown of materials over extended use and time. All defective or damaged products should be returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired or replaced at the discretion of Simms Fishing Products.

What does this mean for waders?

Workmanship & Materials are Guaranteed for the Life of the Product.
If a Simms wader fails due to workmanship or material defect during the life of the product, please return it to us for repair or replacement. All defective or damaged waders should be returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired, replaced or returned at the sole discretion of Simms Fishing Products. This warranty does not cover damages caused by improper care, accidents or the natural breakdown of materials over extended use and time.

30 Day “Across the Counter” Wader Exchange.
If, within 30 days of the purchase date, you are unhappy with a Simms wader, bring it back to the dealer you bought it from. Present your sales receipt, and we will replace it, no questions asked.

The First Repair Is On Us.
At Simms, we stand behind everything we make. But, from time to time, we all take a tumble in the pursuit of fish. If you accidentally damage your Simms wader during the first year that you own it, the first repair is on us. Simply ship us the wader, along with a copy of your receipt, and we will repair it and ship it back to you.
Further, we will only charge you our actual cost for any additional repairs that you may need during the life of your wader. Our Repair Department is not a profit center. Simply bring the wader to your dealer or contact Simms’ Customer Service for a Return Authorization. Then, ship the wader to us with a note describing the problem and someone from our Customer Service Team will promptly contact you with a repair estimate. Once we receive your approval we will repair your waders and ship them back to you.

Using the About Repair section to your advantage. Learn about care & maintenance for your Simms Waders, and other important details to increase the life-span of your waders. The online registration form allows you to quickly register your waders with Simms.

 

[Raven456]

I must say that the reason I shop at Orvis is primarily their warrant and return policy. The will take back any product, for any reason, any time. I have had to return 2 pairs of waders and have never had a problem. Each return was for what I believe was maufacturer defects. I don't think that one should take advantage of a warranty so that they receive a lifetime supply of free waders, but when a substantial sum of money is spent, I think that an expection of product longevity is assumed.
I love my Orvis Pro-Guide waders and with some of the promos they offer, I'm not sure you can get a better wader for the money.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I invited Simms to look at this forum to see all the negativity this has caused them. I received my first email back from customer service saying thank you for directing us to the post and they were going to call some kind of meeting to discuss it, that was a few days ago. Today I receive my second email back from them saying my repaired waders are being sent back to me. They did not say if an invoice would be included. They could have avoided all the negativity (over 450 views) by just contacting me after I told them how disappointed I was with their product and telling them I would post. I will let everyone know if I got billed or if they stood by their warrantee that says the first repair is on us.

 

[AKSkim]

EC:

I am very happy to see that my advise has helped you with this situation.

As always, more than will to stand in the footlights and accept the applause of my fellow fly fisherman.

AK Skim
The Fly Fisherman's Ralph Nader

 

[Eagle Claw]

AK, if they send the waders back with an invoice, I will forward it to you for handling or I will have to turn off the lights.

 

[AKSkim]

I will forward it to you for handling

Have no fear.

As always, we'll just sue the bastards!

AK Skim, Esq.

 

[Eagle Claw]

Got my waders back repaired, no invoice in the carton.
They could have done that the first time as their warrantee said they do, not try to charge me and see what happens. Now you tell me, was that worth it for them, 567 views, 95 percent negative replies. I wonder how many of the 567 told others, only Simms can be the judge of whether it was worth it or not. Heck, I would even have eaten the repair portion for pinhole in the body of the waders, the seams and feet are another thing.

 

[dcabarle]

Leaky Simms everything thread:
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/f19-waders-vests-gadgets-everything-else/t121-simms.html

Leaky Orvis Wader thread:
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...erything-else/t4969-my-orvis-waders-leak.html

You're paying for marketing! My next pair of waders will be Dan Bailey's or Patagonia. Anyone I've spoken with who purchased from either of these two places always had something good to say about everything! From what I've heard, SIMMS and Orvis like to do a lot of doubletalking.

Notice that a lifetime warrantee is no longer a lifetime warrantee in the form we consider a lifetime. Lifetime is now the estimated lifetime of a product.