Regulation changes for Next year.

[flymantis73]

NJDEP Division of Fish & Wildlife - Proposed Changes to 2014-2015 Fish Code

i find it odd that Farrington will no longer be stocked, can anyone elaborate on that?
while i have never caught trout there, it seems odd to leave it off the list.
i learned to fish on Farrington.
always heard that the pike in the lake eat the trout, wich i don't doubt.
and it looks like they're doing away with the FFo section of Flatbrook, wich i haven't had a chance to fish yet.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

and it looks like they're doing away with the FFo section of Flatbrook, wich i haven't had a chance to fish yet.

And we're replacing it with a 4.2 mile 100% year round no-kill, artificial only regulations to see what that water might become if not hammered in spring during the 9 day slaughter fest and the constant limit creeling by even lots of fly anglers on that stretch. We know we have wild brookies and browns already and trout of all species hold over well in that river over most of it. This stretch held its temps even last summer and all trout could have survived in this 4.2 miles during the hottest summer ever recorded.

 

[flymantis73]

You are involved in the stocking or wildlife management programs if i understand, from reading some of your other posts around here?
so much info and fishing skills for me to learn...
it can be kind of overwhelming.
:confused3 :confused3

 

[JeffK]

Take it easy and enjoy the ride. Fly fishing can be a lifelong pursuit where you can learn something every day. I have fly fished for 45 years. Fished 5 days a week in college and a lot in my 20's and then marriage, kids, and work came before fishing for a long time. Now that the kids are gone and the dog is dead I'm doing a lot more fishing and volunteer work. In the prehistoric time before the internet, when there weren't many fly shops around, and when fly fishermen were crusty old codgers who didn't like to share learning to fly fish was a slow process. Now there is so much information and people who share. It's great, and I could learn in 5 years today what took 25 years in the past. However, I can see that as overwhelming.

 

[flymantis73]

there still may be a few Old Codgers out there! a few young ones too.
i'm learning, and i'm not interested in giving up, last year was a disaster, this year i've been out for or five times, landed several Brookies, and at least hooked fish on all five trips, much better than last year where the trout saw my flies and said: :give-the-finger: .
because i was using the wrong stuff. Farrington is my home area water, i fish westons mill pond with spinning rods from time to time, but farrington, unless you're on a boat, it's poitnless, i saw trout near the damn as a kid, and saw a few that didn't make it in Ireland brook, wich is a nice short ride to practice a cast or two (might go there this weekend).
i assume that the water doesn't really hold stocked trout? who knows. it's been interesting so far.

 

[PA1979]

And we're replacing it with a 4.2 mile 100% year round no-kill, artificial only regulations to see what that water might become if not hammered in spring during the 9 day slaughter fest and the constant limit creeling by even lots of fly anglers on that stretch. We know we have wild brookies and browns already and trout of all species hold over well in that river over most of it. This stretch held its temps even last summer and all trout could have survived in this 4.2 miles during the hottest summer ever recorded.

Theres been a bunch of talk amongst the people I fish with about the catch and release proposal on the flat brook.

Half the people think its a great idea. The other half hate it. No one seems to be indifferent.

The issue with the people that are against it is that they think it will ruin the river. They are under the impression that the state will no longer stock that section once it goes to catch and release. There's a healthy population of Heron. Tons of Mergansers. And just a few weeks ago I stumbled on a big healthy mink. It's likely that they're all eating trout. Some think it will be cleaned out, and the fish won't be able to keep up with natural reproduction.

I think it's a great idea/experiment. But I figured it would be several years before stocking was curtailed or eliminated in that section all together.

A friend is working with fish and game this summer, and he got me signed up with a volunteer logbook. My assumption is that the volunteer information will be gathered over several years, and then a decision can be made regarding the need to stock the river.

Does anyone here have any firsthand knowledge about the states intentions?

Anyone care to share their opinion on this section of river and the upcoming catch and release proposal??

The girlfriend, dog and I walked the river from the mud hole down to the gravel pit today. We saw a ton of fish. The river was 68-69 through the whole section, in the shade and in the sun.

 

[NJpatbee]

I cannot speak for the NJDF&W but based on direct discussions with their biologists I do not believe there is any immediate intention to stop all stocking. As part of TU, I have urged them to stop stocking brook trout on top of the wild trout, and perhaps browns also. Rainbows are good choice since they hold over well but do not spawn in the Flatbrook.

If the catch & release is approved by the NJ Fish and Game Council, I expect the fly fishing on the Flatbrook to improve over the next few years with an increase in mature wild brookies and some browns, probably alongside stocked trout. F&W has identified wild brown trout in the 18" range on the Blewett Tract and it would be great to see some 11-12" wild brook trout become more common. If all goes well the number of stocked trout could be reduced over time - I would refer to the improvement in the fishery at the Ken Lockwood Gorge since it became a Year Round Trout Conservation Area.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

To add to what Pat said, the Division has no intentions to curtail stocking in that stretch in spite of what those against the proposed changes are saying. However, we do want them and strongly encourage them to stop stocking brook and brown trout and replace them with strictly rainbows which do not reproduce in that river like the brooks and browns do. I think they are on the same page with us on that stretch. The angler log books are in their 2nd year this year and supply good information on a variety of issues to the biologists. This year's focus is entirely on TCAs. They can give good info on C&R ethics, fish caught per angler hour, wild or stocked percentages, methods used for catching fish, mix of species caught, etc.

 

[PA1979]

Well guys. That sure does address the issues. I'm glad to hear that their is more going into this than most people think. It sure didn't make any sense that the stocking would be abandoned altogether

keep up the good work!

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Well guys. That sure does address the issues. I'm glad to hear that their is more going into this than most people think. It sure didn't make any sense that the stocking would be abandoned altogether

keep up the good work!

Currently in NJ, only one TCA goes un-stocked and that is the Claremont TCA on the upper SBR. All others see stockings of some sort. The year round TCAs get fewer fish and less often, but they have stronger populations of both wild and holdover fish and only allow (currently) one fish per day over 15". The KLG TCA will go to 100% no-kill beginning 1/1/2014. We're not yet sure what the Division will call this new section of the Flat Brook, but it is slated for 100% no-kill, year round, also beginning 1/1/2014. But they have not yet decided to curtail stocking, they are just considering elimination of stocked brookies and browns into water that has both reproducing. So if they stock rainbows, I'd be OK with that.

 

[falcon]

Its interesting to hear of the wild trout that inhabits the Flat Brook. However, just a couple of months ago I spoke with Pat Hamilton at a TU meeting and she said their findings indicate very few wild trout in the Flat Brook. The ones they found were above the Roy Bridge. This water also suffers from low water conditions especially upstream of Layton. I just don't see the upper stretch holding many trout after summer temperatures and low water. Mergansers hammer the fish in the upper stretches.

 

[NJpatbee]

Its interesting to hear of the wild trout that inhabits the Flat Brook. However, just a couple of months ago I spoke with Pat Hamilton at a TU meeting and she said their findings indicate very few wild trout in the Flat Brook. The ones they found were above the Roy Bridge. This water also suffers from low water conditions especially upstream of Layton. I just don't see the upper stretch holding many trout after summer temperatures and low water. Mergansers hammer the fish in the upper stretches.

The Division has performed a very thorough analysis of the proposed catch and release stretch on the current FFO on the Flat Brook over the last couple of years. The highest temperature recorded was 71F, and that was for a short period at the peak of sun on one day. They have documented wild brown trout 18" in that stretch, and most recent electrofishing results show other wild brown and brook trout. Wild trout are found after the summer heat and low water, but I propose that their numbers could and should be better, and apparently F&W agrees. Mature wild trout are harvested with the general kill regulations that currently exist. The water gets heavy fishing pressure for the majority of an 8 month period, and if even a few anglers a day kill a few trout the numbers go down. Other predators take their toll but that is true on any water.

I spend the majority of my time trout fishing in NJ for wild trout and some of the most productive streams shrink in size during drought periods to the point that they are hardly noticeable in spots. However, the wild trout survive and thrive even beyond my expectations. The proposed C&R section on the Flat Brook has 5 to 10 times the flow of these smaller brooks during drought periods and stays cold. I believe the odds are very good that the wild trout, especially the brookies, will increase in number and size under C&R regulations. That section of the stream has seen very little change over the last couple of hundred years because of its difficult to farm terrain and more recently the protection it receives as part of State and Federal Forests and parks. It should be interesting to look at the results after 5-8 years of C&R to evaluate the stream's actual holding capacity.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Its interesting to hear of the wild trout that inhabits the Flat Brook. However, just a couple of months ago I spoke with Pat Hamilton at a TU meeting and she said their findings indicate very few wild trout in the Flat Brook. The ones they found were above the Roy Bridge. This water also suffers from low water conditions especially upstream of Layton. I just don't see the upper stretch holding many trout after summer temperatures and low water. Mergansers hammer the fish in the upper stretches.

Agreed, but what Pat says below is key and this has been TU's position for years. Drive up there today and you will find trout anglers using fly rods and creeling fish up to their 4 fish limits. The Division's surprise came from how few wild fish they electrofished in the summer in spite of excellent aquatic insect life, water temps and habitat. When they saw all those wild and holdover fish leaving on stringers, it was an eye opener.

The Division has performed a very thorough analysis of the proposed catch and release stretch on the current FFO on the Flat Brook over the last couple of years. The highest temperature recorded was 71F, and that was for a short period at the peak of sun on one day. They have documented wild brown trout 18" in that stretch, and most recent electrofishing results show other wild brown and brook trout. Wild trout are found after the summer heat and low water, but I propose that their numbers could and should be better, and apparently F&W agrees. Mature wild trout are harvested with the general kill regulations that currently exist. The water gets heavy fishing pressure for the majority of an 8 month period, and if even a few anglers a day kill a few trout the numbers go down. Other predators take their toll but that is true on any water.

 

[falcon]

You are right Pat did talk about electro shocking and mentioned that there were very few wild fish found but did not discuss the upside (potential of the habitat and insect life). I believe our biologists are second to none. I'm all for it. The potential is good especially after hearing about the monitoring of the stream temps. The fact that fish won't be removed in the early season will certainly help. The BFB has never been a no kill so who knows how good it can be. The water from the Mud Hole to the Roy bridge has the depth, canopy and cover to hold fish. The water that I am concerned about is the water above Schaffer's bridge as it gets very low in there and could use stream improvement (which won't happen due to dwarf mussels). I volunteered for the stream survey last year and this year. I believe I caught one small wild brown last year. I have also caught a few small wild browns upstream of the Mud Hole. I will ask her more when I see her.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Last summer we removed a monster log jam that happened just above the Pole Gate (just upstream of the top of the Blewett Tract) that happened during Hurricane Irene. That jam had the stream braiding out into the woods into many channels and de-watering the main river. Pat and her crew electro fished the area the day before we did the clean up with a big track machine and chain saws and she got mostly wild brookies with some wild browns. If memory serves, they only found one stocked trout in that section.

 

[Alan_B]

Take it easy and enjoy the ride. Fly fishing can be a lifelong pursuit where you can learn something every day. I have fly fished for 45 years. Fished 5 days a week in college and a lot in my 20's and then marriage, kids, and work came before fishing for a long time. Now that the kids are gone and the dog is dead I'm doing a lot more fishing and volunteer work. In the prehistoric time before the internet, when there weren't many fly shops around, and when fly fishermen were crusty old codgers who didn't like to share learning to fly fish was a slow process. Now there is so much information and people who share. It's great, and I could learn in 5 years today what took 25 years in the past. However, I can see that as overwhelming.

Crusty old codger eh! I resemble that remark!

 

[Alan_B]

The sad truth is all these special regs for the BFB wont do squat to deter the ones who have no regards for the regs in the first place. how many times have you seen the telltale ring of a bucket next to a pile of cigarette buts next to an empty bait container next to empty beer cans next to a PILE of fish guts on the flatbrook. Some toothless, inbred, Sussex county wood booger sat there all night in an artificial only stretch because he knows there is no enforcement. Don't get too excited about any rebound or increase in wild trout populations up there.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

The sad truth is all these special regs for the BFB wont do squat to deter the ones who have no regards for the regs in the first place. how many times have you seen the telltale ring of a bucket next to a pile of cigarette buts next to an empty bait container next to empty beer cans next to a PILE of fish guts on the flatbrook. Some toothless, inbred, Sussex county wood booger sat there all night in an artificial only stretch because he knows there is no enforcement. Don't get too excited about any rebound or increase in wild trout populations up there.

Here's the good news on that topic. I have joined the FSB/North Jersey chapter nearly every year for the past 14 years on their annual Flat Brook river clean up. Each successive year, we find fewer and fewer trash items and most notable are less worm containers. All rivers see some poaching, but this one is seeing less and less. And if you catch someone poaching by fishing illegally, PM me for the local CO's phone #.....

We do find bait containers in TCAs like the KLG, Point Mountain and others, so this problem exists on a small scale everywhere and not just with the 3-eared locals on the Flat Brook

(to my many Sussex friends, I'm just kidding about the 3 ears - although you can hear better than most:burp