Esopus Catch and Release?

[Salvelinus]

First, the fishing was great on Sunday, with 20+ fish landed in an afternoon and evening of fishing. Mostly stonefly nymphs and some soft hackles at dusk when fish were chasing emerging nymphs. Monday, the creek muddied up substantially, whether from the portal or a thunderstorm up a trib or both, but the fishing fell off quite a bit. In the murky water, there was substantial feeding on small emergents in slow water, but I couldn't get it figured (any advice?).

On catch and release, I'm mixed on whether Phoenicia downstream should be C and R. This weekend I met two NJ bait fisherman that said they caught 150-175 trout over the previous 2 days, all on mealworms and worms. Obviously they released most of them...but how many were deep-hooked, etc.? There are some very good bait fisherman on the creek who catch a lot of fish, keep some. I don't know how much impact the meat fishing has.

I guess I'd rather see a fly-fishing only zone from, say, the parking lot downstream of Emerson, where the flood protection starts down to the old RR bridge. That way campers could still keep fish up by Phoenicia and Woodland Valley, and bait guys could still fish the big pools down low. But protect a nice stretch in the middle where you have to do a little bit of hiking anyway to get to sweet spots for fly-fishing and C and R. I bet some really nice wild fish would grow big in there.

On the other hand, there are a lot of fish per foot of water in the Esopus, and maybe it needs a little thinning. Fish don't grow big there, mainly because hatches are sporadic, water is often muddy, and competition for aquatics is intense. Worms are big pieces of steak to Esopus trout and a bait fisherman can do really well there. Maybe some more harvest should be encouraged ?! I wonder what the DEC found with their telemetry study.

Anyway, just looking for other opinions.

 

[Joe D]

First, the fishing was great on Sunday, with 20+ fish landed in an afternoon and evening of fishing. Mostly stonefly nymphs and some soft hackles at dusk when fish were chasing emerging nymphs. Monday, the creek muddied up substantially, whether from the portal or a thunderstorm up a trib or both, but the fishing fell off quite a bit. In the murky water, there was substantial feeding on small emergents in slow water, but I couldn't get it figured (any advice?).

On catch and release, I'm mixed on whether Phoenicia downstream should be C and R. This weekend I met two NJ bait fisherman that said they caught 150-175 trout over the previous 2 days, all on mealworms and worms. Obviously they released most of them...but how many were deep-hooked, etc.? There are some very good bait fisherman on the creek who catch a lot of fish, keep some. I don't know how much impact the meat fishing has.

I guess I'd rather see a fly-fishing only zone from, say, the parking lot downstream of Emerson, where the flood protection starts down to the old RR bridge. That way campers could still keep fish up by Phoenicia and Woodland Valley, and bait guys could still fish the big pools down low. But protect a nice stretch in the middle where you have to do a little bit of hiking anyway to get to sweet spots for fly-fishing and C and R. I bet some really nice wild fish would grow big in there.

On the other hand, there are a lot of fish per foot of water in the Esopus, and maybe it needs a little thinning. Fish don't grow big there, mainly because hatches are sporadic, water is often muddy, and competition for aquatics is intense. Worms are big pieces of steak to Esopus trout and a bait fisherman can do really well there. Maybe some more harvest should be encouraged ?! I wonder what the DEC found with their telemetry study.

Anyway, just looking for other opinions.

I think the fish aren't big there this time of year because it's a spawning stream for reservoir fish. There are many juveniles in the stream. The DEC also stocks the creek with 8-9 inch fish.

 

[woger]

The deep hooking with bait fishing is a worry. How about C&R for fish within certain size limits. Only fish between say 12 & 18 inches are allowed to be kept. Or just make sure creel limits are enforced and anyone caught breaking them be made an example off.

 

[Iso]

Most of the spawning beds are upstream of phoenicia. The thought is to make everything below it C&R (it would be open year round). We could still fish for spawners, but not on the redds. The DEC is doing a survey of anglers on the river this year -- I spoke with a couple guys and they are surprised at the number of "no" responses they are getting.

I'm in favor of it, but everything from phoenicia downstream may be asking too much. Then again the bait guys may be against it in principle no matter the size.

 

[Joe D]

Most of the spawning beds are upstream of phoenicia. The thought is to make everything below it C&R (it would be open year round). We could still fish for spawners, but not on the redds. The DEC is doing a survey of anglers on the river this year -- I spoke with a couple guys and they are surprised at the number of "no" responses they are getting.

I'm in favor of it, but everything from phoenicia downstream may be asking too much. Then again the bait guys may be against it in principle no matter the size.

Go for it. How about posting the contact info. for the DEC guys doing the survey?

 

[Iso]

It's not an online survey or anything. The DEC is doing a streamside survey, they want to know preferences of anglers on the river.

I've run into them several times. And if you tell them you've already been surveyed, they won't count you a second time... I may lie next time, what's the saying vote early and often.

 

[Salvelinus]

Most of the spawning beds are upstream of phoenicia. The thought is to make everything below it C&R (it would be open year round). We could still fish for spawners, but not on the redds. The DEC is doing a survey of anglers on the river this year -- I spoke with a couple guys and they are surprised at the number of "no" responses they are getting.

I'm in favor of it, but everything from phoenicia downstream may be asking too much. Then again the bait guys may be against it in principle no matter the size.

Thanks for this info, Iso. I didn't realize the spawning beds were that far upstream. Year-round Esopus would be spectacular from my perspective, I didn't realize that was part of the proposal. Makes me all the more supportive of it. I've voted yes C and R, even though I wasn't fully positive about the issue, just a knee-jerk reaction, since it's a good way to go, and mostly what I do anyway -- trout dinner 2 or 3 times a summer, and everyone else swims away. (I meat-fish walleye for the freezer, though, on Oneida, where there's just so many fish).

 

[mirroreyes]

Having done the streamside survey more than a few times, I do wish it was more detailed or had a follow-up online - they didn't mention some of the details I've read here. Using both fly and centerpin gear though I have to mention that I've deep hooked on both rigs, perhaps moreso on flies. Maybe using a float makes me quicker (or fly makes me denser, I'm learning), but I'd be surprised if no one else experienced something similar.

As to C&R on the Esopus - I'm fine with giving everything back to the river (though will miss the occasional meal), but not so much with the distinction between bait, lure and fly. Everything we tie to the end of the line is a lure. Bait doesn't always mean live bait but can also include plastics and lures. Flies are ofc both flies and a kind of lure. I've tried the tiny plastic grubs on fly gear with some success - which is that? I should draw a venn diagram.

BTW trout do stage during the summer, August can be a great month given the right circumstances.

 

[steeliejim902]

The deep hooking with bait fishing is a worry. How about C&R for fish within certain size limits. Only fish between say 12 & 18 inches are allowed to be kept. Or just make sure creel limits are enforced and anyone caught breaking them be made an example off.

The deep hooking with bait is a non-issue if you know how to handle the fish. Just cut the line and never, ever try to pull the hook out. This will have no ill effect on this trout if done this way. I fish all bait and have stocked trout in a small stream behind my house that swallowed a hook. 2 months later and they're fine. Hooks are dirt cheap anyway.

Many fisherman will not do this, but don't give all bait fisherman a bad rap.