spey hooks and spey hackle

[Trout Fever]

ok i have a new addiction salmon flies i would like to purchase alec jackson 1.5 hooks or a hook that is similar to that.. i was wondering what size blue eared pheasant hackle do i buy medium or large and which colors will cover a handfull of patterns? or is it the prefernce of the tyer? also what other hooks are similar to the alec jackson 1.5 hooks $28 for 25 hooks a little on the pricey side but its a classic salmon spey hook.


TF

 

[Broadheadscreek]

TF upon some research Tiemco makes a hook close to AJ's didn't check the price but not a bad looking hook and a very nice bend.Should work well for what you want to tye the catalog number is TMC202SP. As for BEP the medium to large will be fine to cover the 1.5' s and colors are up to the tyer most patterns gray is fine.If you would like I can send you a few feathers to get started.. You will also need some nice teal or gadwall and a nice golden pheasant cape for the throat hackle.Welcome to the new addiction a second job will be needed... Who said tying your own flies was cheaper ..LOL

 

[Trout Fever]

thanks allen the tiemco i dont see the tm202sp on this website but i do see the tmc 7999 which is a

im thinking buy the size 1/0 or would the 2/0 be better thanks allen i will pm you my address allways appericate your generousity

TMC7999 Up-turned tapered loop-eye, Heavy wire, Forged, Black. Salmon/Steelhead Wet Flies in size 2/0 1/0 2 4 6 8 the sizes are 2/0 1/0 2 4 6 8

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[WBDluver]

Here is a tip, buy the Alec Jackson hooks. Then send them to BHC to add the feathers and thread

 

[Lonewolve]

Trout Fever
If i may add, the Tiemco 202SP is a far better choice if you are going to use Tiemco,the 7999 is a better choice for hairwings, and traditional wets.
I personally prefer Alec Jackson Spey hooks,Alec Jackson also has a hook called Steelhead Irons .Now you have to figure out where in the water column you fish or how you are going to fish.The Alec Jackson Spey & The Tiemco 202SP are lighter wire ,they work mid column to the top really damn well.With the Tiemco 7999 and the Alec Jackson Steelhead Iron they are heavy hooks an will get down faster as well with a hairwing fly they also help to keep down.Usually lighter wire gets used during summer and fall ,during late fall winter when fish are more lethargic and also when it is spring an runoff is going on a heavier wire works to get the fly down an in the fish's face.
My favorite hooks are :
Alec Jackson Spey
Patridge Bartleet{Originally designed by Dave McNeese,not to be confused with the Harrison Bartleet}
Blue Heron { Dave McNeese designed this hook an it is made by Gamakatsu}
I also love the Alec Jackson Blind Eye its used for Dee and Spey flies have to add a gut or dacron loop for an eye
I also have the 202SP in various sizes.
Believe it or not i prefer the Mustad 36890 for Marabou Spiders,Popsicles ect.
If i can steer you to a great source i would highly recommend the following:
Tight Lines in Pinebrook ,NJ
otherwise i prefer:
FeathersMc.com..ask for John McClain
RedShed Fly shop...ask for Poppy
Tolt River Anglers...ask for Jack Cook
aside from that theres also
Malinda's Fly Shop, Altmar,NY
Malinda is a great gal who also can tie a great fly knows her stuff where it concerns Atlantic Salmon,Pacific Salmon,and Steelhead,she also always has really top notch materials and also excellent gear..your milage may vary.
BroadheadCreek{Allen} knows his way around a hook also
Btw be careful if you are tying for the NY Tribs 1/2" gape restriction in the fly zones.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[Trout Fever]

thanks rick did you get the teimco from tightlines? what size should i buy 1/0 ? i cant seem to locate them in the brief search i did on google?
the other thing alec jackson has a light wire spey 25 hooks for 22 dollars and the heavy gauge hooks for 28 dollars should i buy the light wire to start out with? and as for the 1/2 hook gap does that applie to the salmon river? and does the alec jackson 1.5 exceed that? what model alec jackson spey hook ?

also i got my running line and scandi head in last night do i have to have poly leaders? i think im getting confused backing running line scandi head poly leader and flourcarbon tippet or tapered leader ?

just trying to figure this whole thing out


TF

 

[Lonewolve]

Trout,
I got the Tiemcos when they were first available .I also reccomend that before you buy those hooks ,ask if the flyshop can make sure the Gape isn no larger than a 1/2" wide,meaning from the point to the shank. I have caught plenty of big Salmon and Steelhead on #3,#5,#7 Alec Jackson Spey{light wire} hooks,they are a great hook. I am sure they will serve you fine.If i were you i would get a box of Mustad 36890 #2,#4 to practice on they are cheap ..only require a quick drag across a diamond hone and will fish fine,also they are strong as hell.
Alec Jackson Hooks are IMHO at the Top of the heap alongside The Partridge Bartleet, and Dave McNeese Blue Heron hooks. You will pay for great materials and hooks make no mistake about it.Theres an old saying "You Get What You Pay For".
I am sure that if you ask the shop to measure the hook gape ,they will do it gladly.If not go elsewhere.
As for Hackles Broadhead is right you need to figure out what pattern you want to tie,get materials for that pattern,practice, then when you are satisfied go to another an keep at it.Also if you ask them to get certain materials for what you are tying they will I am sure be happy to oblige. I mentioned Tight Lines but Malinda's Fly Shop in Altmar is also a great place to buy quality materials for what you are tying along with all the others. cntd......

 

[Lonewolve]

Trout,
I can't recommend anything Scandi or Skagit.I use a Rio Windcutter Spey on both my spey rods, i use a 4/5,and a 5/6 on my Gloomis streamdance Metolius Troutspey 13'4" 5/6 wt,and I will use a Rio Windcutter Spey 7/8/9 spey as well as a Wulff Triangle Taper Spey on a Scott G series 14' 9 wt.
I have to find a bigger reel for the Scott yet.BTW thses are full floating lines ...no heads. If i need to get down i use Airflo Polyleaders,or Rio Spey Versa Leaders. I also use poly leaders on my Trout Spey.
You will need a Golden Pheasant skin, Mallard flank,Bronze mallard flank, Wood Duck Flank, Blue Eared Pheasant {BEP} feathers sized to the hook you are using,Schlappen comes in a bunch of colors,Turkey Center Tail Feathers,maybe some goose shoudler for colorful wings ect.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
Opps i almost forgot, Angora Goat ,SLF ,STS Trilobal,Lite Brite,Prism,UV dubbings all are great attention getters.You will need some spools of various tinsels,flat and round silver & gold embossed,Mylar tinsel in a few different widths.
Maybe some floss in various colors too the possibilities are endless like the Stars in the Sky.
wire also in various colors to suit your fancy so you can secure the hackle,yea you can use tinsel too but tinsel and wire makes for a highly durable fly.

 

[Broadheadscreek]

Thank you for expanding on the subject Rick I was tired when I responded and was going to come back to it tonight. All the sources you listed are excellent places to buy materials and if you call they will know what you are talking about and will be more than willing to help you out. As for the Tiemco hooks you can find them here at Umpqua you will also find a dealer list I believe there as well. Umpqua - TMC202SP . As for Alec Jackson hooks they are the finest money can buy the 2051 light wire work very well for the great lakes region. If you want a heavy wire hook the 2061's fit the bill ..For materials that haven't been covered yet some good metal tinsels and a few different types of dubbing from seal to PB or a good substitute ..SLF dubbings will work and there are many great colors to choose from .

 

[Johnny Utah]

J.W. Trout DAIICHI HOOKS Has a good deals on the daiichi.

 

[Trout Fever]

lol thanks guys i think that i am going to start of with some simple spey flies now the bronze mallard is that on a male bird or female? because i have one full dried mallard drake in the basement now i have quite a bit of wood duck teal and pintail feathers im going to go with the alec jackson 2051 for $22 for 25 hooks do you guys have a place to get them cheaper or is that a good price?


now my other question i was talking with chris and he told me to buy running line .030 floating and scandi 480 floating which is recommended for my rod do i have to use poly leaders or can i just use flouracarbon tapered leaders?

thanks again guys i will eventually get to the point you guys are


TF

 

[Johnny Utah]

lol thanks guys i think that i am going to start of with some simple spey flies now the bronze mallard is that on a male bird or female? because i have one full dried mallard drake in the basement now i have quite a bit of wood duck teal and pintail feathers im going to go with the alec jackson 2051 for $22 for 25 hooks do you guys have a place to get them cheaper or is that a good price?


now my other question i was talking with chris and he told me to buy running line .030 floating and scandi 480 floating which is recommended for my rod do i have to use poly leaders or can i just use flouracarbon tapered leaders?

thanks again guys i will eventually get to the point you guys are


TF

Tf the link i gave has them listed for

2051

Salmon

Black

3-5-7

10

$5.00

100

$42.55

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100 for 42.55 That is a really great deal.

 

[Broadheadscreek]

TF for 1.5s that's about right they have gone up a bit due to demand . The last year or so they have become hard to find because of the radiation problems in Japan they were not being shipped. The last I bought were I think $79 for 100 pack. Bronze mallard is from a colored up male on the flanks you'll need matched pairs meaning left and right feathers.

 

[Trout Fever]

TF for 1.5s that's about right they have gone up a bit due to demand . The last year or so they have become hard to find because of the radiation problems in Japan they were not being shipped. The last I bought were I think $79 for 100 pack. Bronze mallard is from a colored up male on the flanks you'll need matched pairs meaning left and right feathers.

allen just went down stairs and located the bronze flanks so i have for birds worth!! nice right

 

[pitbull]

TF..absolutley have to use poly leaders..they anchor themselves in the water for spey casting..talk to drew at tight lines in parsippany..better yet you really should book a lesson with him..its alot to learn and can be a bit overwhelming at first..thats my opinion

 

[Lonewolve]

TF, when using poly leaders you just tie on about 3 foot of tippet,maxima or flouro. not leader then another leader.

 

[LyNcH]

Nice thread here with tons of great advise and help.

I'll chime in real quick and 2nd the polyleader recommendation. Depending on the length of your rod (no homo), you will want to get either 10' or 14' polyleaders. Depending on the flows and season, you will want to buy floating all the way to 5.6ips, and it won't hurt to have the 7ips either. They sell the whole leader setup with a wallet. You eventually will buy them all, so save yourself the hassle and get the entire lot right from the get go. If your rod is 13' or longer, you will want the 14' leaders in order to maintain anchor throughout your sweep and d-loop action.

A scandi head is perfect for the type of unweighted flies you will be tying up. When you start tying tube, marabou/zonker conehead winter type flies, then it's time to start talking skagit heads. Rick hit it on the head with leader. With scandi heads, I use 3' of 10lb or 12lb Maxima ultragreen. In terms of running line, just make sure it's a decent floating one, you will be shooting line quite often if you get into a wide run. I use both Airflo Ridge and Scientific Anglers mono depending on the season.

 

[WBDluver]

The last year or so they have become hard to find because of the radiation problems in Japan

I gotta get me some of these. Think of the up side. 1. hook will never freeze to hookeeper on rod due to constant warmth, 2. you will be able to follow your fly as it glows through the water, 3. can be used as a hand warmer on those cold days on stream. 4. put a few in your pockets and you will never have to hear the wife talk about vasectomy again.

See, you guys look at the glass half empty, i look at it as half full

 

[theartoflee]

Lots of good information in this thread especially the recommendations on poly leaders. In my opinion Compact Scandi lines paired with poly leaders are the way to go especially on the East Coast. My prefer is to fish 10 foot poly leaders as opposed to the 15 foot poly leaders. In some instances I use some 15 foot polys that I have cut down to 12 feet. I found that the shorter poly leaders work better with my 13 foot rod. If I am using rods under 13 feet like my switch rod I sometimes use 8 foot poly leaders primary on the smaller rivers Lake Erie river/tribs.

Weight should not be an issue with compact scandi lines in most instances. Often times "flies" are not as heavy as we would initially perceive them to be. In most instances tubes can be lighter then Irons especially the A.J. irons.

A good example might be these three "flies":

The heaviest of the flies is the one tied on the A.J. with the lightest of the bunch is the one with the cone head, which most might perceive at first as being the heaviest. Had the bugger been tied on a copper tube as opposed to a plastic tube it would have been the heaviest.

For hackle cheap and easy is the way to go for fishing flies the only expensive materials I really think makes a difference especially when fish have keyed in on bait fish pre or post spawn is Jungle Cock when used with bait fish style speys.

When it comes to color and size of materials you will need to buy that could be dictated by the area or river you plan to fish and what time you plan on fishing. Perhaps if you gave us more information such as when you plan on fishing and what system you plan to fish if you will be fishing for Salmon or Steelhead we could be more helpful.

 

[Trout Fever]

im going to be up there a couple times early and definatly in november few times

TF

 

[CTobias]

I buy all my hooks by the 100 pack. I would buy them by the 1000 pack if they still sold them, but they don't. I use the Alec Jackson spey hooks. There are a bunch of hooks out there, some even hand made. I guess it's all in how much you want to spend. The AJ hooks seem to be the best as far as quality control goes. Then again, I haven't bought many of the others.

You paid $80 for a 100 hooks? You got ripped off BHC.

There are these blue heron spey hooks. They are a bit pricey though.

 

[pitbull]

rule of thumb with poly leader length is rods under 12 ft.you should use 10 footers..rods over 12 ft..you should use 15 footers..if your leader is not long enough for the rod length then you will just lift your anchor in the air everytime...instead of having it anchor in the water like it should,,making the cast totally useless

 

[Trout Fever]

my rod is 12' 6" is 10' allright?

TF

 

[CTobias]

my rod is 12' 6" is 10' allright?

TF

It will be fine.

What pitbull mentioned may be true for him, but I know plenty of guys who use 13'6" rods and use the 10' poly with no problems. Not everyone casts the same, and so some may prefer the shorter poly leader for their casting style, where as some may like the longer poly leader.