Global Warming a Hoax, don't worry you will still pay for it.

[CTobias]

Not sure if any of you are aware of the "Climate Bill" that was rammed through congress. No one even got a chance to read the bill. Unless they are more than human and can read and understand a 1200 page bill in five hours. Some of you may argue that "Global Warming" is real and that we need to be "greener". Explain this then, why did arctic sea ice expand by 30% in the year since August 2007- August 2008?? Arctic Ice Grows 30 Per Cent In a Year Must be all that "global warming".

This bill will only help make Al Gore rich and create a huge transfer of power and wealth. Buchanan: Climate Bill Is Transfer Of Wealth To World Government
Going into this they KNEW this would create job losses in an already weak economy. This will cause companies to close and send more jobs over seas where there are no emission standards. This bill has already passed in congress and is headed to the senate. Every one needs to contact their senators and tell them to vote no on this bill. Unless of course you want to pay more for gas, electricity, and anything that produces a "carbon footprint".

 

[Bamboozle]

Ramming through legislation without reading it is par for the course for this Administration & Congress. Remember the "Stimulus Bill"; that too was rammed home with no KY. :fart:

Going into this they KNEW this would create job losses in an already weak economy. This will cause companies to close and send more jobs over seas where there are no emission standards.

The House version has increases for unemployment compensation written into it to cover the expected job losses! What a crock. Take a look at what "green jobs" did to the economy of Spain, I believe their unemployment rate is 18% after they went the windmill and solar panel route!

This bill has already passed in congress and is headed to the senate. Every one needs to contact their senators and tell them to vote no on this bill. Unless of course you want to pay more for gas, electricity, and anything that produces a "carbon footprint".

Unfortunately BOTH of my PA Senators are likely to vote for the bill, but it won't keep me from blasting that dress wearing POS "Arleen" Specter with a letter or two.

 

[Kilgour Farms]

Financial, auto, health and now energy. The oil and gas companies balance sheets are to strong for a governmant takeover, so tax them out of exsistence, then use government subsidies for renewables to gain control of the energy sector.

Call it a conspiracy but its happening right before your eyes.

 

[MACFLY]

Financial, auto, health and now energy. The oil and gas companies balance sheets are to strong for a governmant takeover, so tax them out of exsistence, then use government subsidies for renewables to gain control of the energy sector.

Call it a conspiracy but its happening right before your eyes.

The interesting thing will be to see the looks on the people's faces that voted for this "Change" and thought it meant they would get free everything when they get their first new bill for electricity. Whats to follow this little piece of legislation, Socialized medicine, immigration reform( read 20 million new citiziens who will vote almos entirely democratic), and then probably next year social security reform which will absolutely result in higher taxes as the insolvency of the program is accelarating due to unemployment rates being higher so less folks paing in to the system. Was out in California 2 weeks and had a person ask me why I needed to eat a hamburger for lunch when it was directly responsible for global warming. I was trying to not choke on my hamburger and then as luck would have it, I ripped a monumental fart and said "Got out of my carbon footprint"!!!!:give-the-finger:

 

[eddavidson9]

Whats to follow this little piece of legislation, Socialized medicine....

hopefully.

hey, i'm for this bill, and willing to pay the REAL costs (and reap the REAL benefits) of it, but i understand and accept opposing opinions on it. but, imo, the one place where we need a real, complete, total overhaul, and the one place where it really does make sense to "go left", is health care coverage. it wont happen (in this or the next decade) because there are too many big interests involved, and too much fear over this "socialism" plague. but you wait until us young'ins start holding a little more sway. some day...

also, F that d-bag. gotta love holier-than-thou lifestyle-preachers (like AK...:fart, hope you didnt hurt his feelings too bad

 

[CTobias]

It's good to see some of the people out there are awake on these issues. God knows most young aults (ok kids) my age are more concerned with the next reality t.v. show coming out.

T.V. is just like the Roman Gladitorial Games that lasted for months on end. It is used to keep the masses occupied and unaware of what is happening in their world. The only shows should be hunting and fishing shows. Of course deadliest catch and dirty jobs will be allowed on as well. Haha.

 

[MACFLY]

hopefully.

hey, i'm for this bill, and willing to pay the REAL costs (and reap the REAL benefits) of it, but i understand and accept opposing opinions on it. but, imo, the one place where we need a real, complete, total overhaul, and the one place where it really does make sense to "go left", is health care coverage. it wont happen (in this or the next decade) because there are too many big interests involved, and too much fear over this "socialism" plague. but you wait until us young'ins start holding a little more sway. some day...

also, F that d-bag. gotta love holier-than-thou lifestyle-preachers (like AK...:fart, hope you didnt hurt his feelings too bad

Good luck with your belief that socialized (or whatever you wish to call it) medicine is the way to go. I have no problem with having an objective discussion on this topic. Let me just tell you having lived abroad for many years I have seen first hand what a government run healthcare program does. There is no doubt that reform in healthcare is needed but depending on our government to provide the answer is going to result in one definitive outcome "disappointment". You need only look at the most recent news coming from the CBO on costs for this program which are unsustainable. Quick little history. Back in 03 or 04 Pres Bush signed a bill for prescription drugs. To fund that bill at the time it was signed we needed to have 8 trillion dollars invested at treasury rates. We didnt have 8 trillion...we didnt have 8 billion... we didnt have 8 million...we didnt have 8 dollars. In fact we had nothing to fund this just as we have nothing to fund this new healthcare bill or the other bills now winding through congress with a rubber stamp. So what that means is your going to pay for it and be careful when you say you will fund whatever costs because its not just one bill..Its all of it in addition to the increases in state, local, and property taxes you will most certainly seein hte coming years. Your going to need that healthcare bill because the stress is going to kill you...lets just hope they arent rationing heart medication when that happens. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming!!!

Want an education on our current and future financial catastrophe...go to

www.IOUSA.com

 

[Drossi]

Greed will eventually be the downfall of this country. I'm afraid its going to take a catastrophic economic event to snap everyone out of the gangster society we've become. Back room deals and virtual RICO arrangments are now accepted forms of government spending. It's a shame that what should be positive emissions legislation has to be ruined by crooked politicians.

 

[Bamboozle]

T.V. is just like the Roman Gladitorial Games that lasted for months on end. It is used to keep the masses occupied and unaware of what is happening in their world.

Makes you wonder if Nancy Pelosi had a hand in the timing of the recent death of the "Gloved One"

"Hello, UCLA Medical Center, this is the Speaker of the House. How's Michael doing....not so good, huh? Well, thanks, for the update. Let me know when it's over. That'll be a good time to ram the Waxman-Markley bill through Congress while everybody is distracted."

Jeez, first Farrah, then Wacko Jacko, and finally Mr. Mighty Putty...

...Feeding Christians to the Lions was never as distracting as all of this! :down:

 

[Bamboozle]

...and then probably next year social security reform which will absolutely result in higher taxes as the insolvency of the program is accelerating due to unemployment rates being higher so less folks paying in to the system.

Jeez, I seem to remember the other side blasting the Bush Administration when they pushed Social Security reform 4-5 years ago. I seem to recall that despite similar projected deficits as we have today, the counter claim was the system wasn't broken.

...Was out in California 2 weeks and had a person ask me why I needed to eat a hamburger for lunch when it was directly responsible for global warming.

God how I wish that would happen to me or better yet, I wish somebody carrying those $2 "Save the Planet" shopping bags would try and challenge my conscience in the supermarket line when I get asked the eternal question:

"Sir, Would you like paper or plastic?"

"Ahhhh, some of each please and double bag everything, especially the ground beef!!!"

 

[FishsEddie]

Thread has me wondering...


In general, do flyfishermen tend to be more liberal or more conservative?

(In the current political definitions of those words, of course.)

 

[McRiffle]

I think most fly fishing folks are moderate, be it republican or democrat.

Here's my theory...

The divide and conquer tactics by both heavy right republicans and way left democrats only serve one selfish purpose. To pad and solidify their fringe ranks through hate and promoting mistrust.

In my experience people who fly fish are largely moderates because they are average or better intelligence and can see through this artificial BS and think logically.

For instance
...conservative republicans are more likely to favor mining companies that'll pollute rivers while
...liberal democrats are more likely to try and ban certain guns.

Does it need to be either or for these two contested topics to then be able to call yourself a republican or democrat? This, a huge list of other topics don't seem so cut and dry. A moderate stance on either (mining rules that don't allow overburden to be dumped wherever and maybe have a waiting period to buy a hand gun out of state) would be reasonable.

Sadly the flame war tactics are only going to widen the gap. Maybe voting to get more moderates elected is the way to go, even if it means crossing your own party lines.

Then again, maybe I'm :smiley-sniffer:

 

[John Wesley Northridge]

I'm not quite sure why this is in the "education" forum, but apparently some people feel the need to spout nonsense from street corners even in the information age.

Is there a propaganda and paranoia sub-forum?

Edited to add a little reality:

The premise (30% increase in arctic sea ice) is inaccurate and based on a report of a guy doing his own "research" by counting pixels in a 2D representation of a 3D planet. Maps are distorted because a 3D object can't be accurately represented in a 2D space.

See the editor's note at the end of the original article the initial link referenced at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/.

 

[Trout Nazi]

I think that the arctic sea ice example was maybe not the best way to counter the steaming load of BS that is man-made climate change. Maybe pointing out that there is data that actually shows that CO2 increases as a result of warming is a better place to start. Maybe talking about climate change with the perspective that there have been something like 8 ice-ages (that we know of), and 6-12 interglacials within each. Oh, and all before people. How about the influence of Milankovich cycles and solar radiation vs. Earths magnetic field? How about actual science to prove that CO2 causes warming on a global scale? Still waiting for it.....

 

[webdevmonkey]

I have seen the discussion of this subject started up on every web forum I've ever been a part of for the last ten years.

It never goes anywhere, and nobody from either side ever convinces the other side of anything.

Let's see how long we can make this thread...

 

[Trout Nazi]

Is that a challenge? Still won't be as long as the old Salmon River Report or West Branch report.

Plus, seems pretty one-sided here to me.

 

[MACFLY]

I have seen the discussion of this subject started up on every web forum I've ever been a part of for the last ten years.

It never goes anywhere, and nobody from either side ever convinces the other side of anything.

Let's see how long we can make this thread...

If the only reason you have a discussion is to change the other person's mind you might as well become a monk. If on the other hand you want have a discussion to raise awareness of a particular point of view or some information that someone may not have seen or been privy to than thats probably a better way to go. Regarding the Global Warming issue I had posted an interesting article on this a couple of years ago that discussed some of the positive impacts if in fact global warming is true. I dont claim to know positively. My belief based on information I have read is that it is unclear at best and murky to suggest that if there is global warming man is responsible for it. I felt differently a couple years ago but as I read more and more it seems patently unclear. However I have very deliberate beliefs about the bill going through congress and that is its going to be very bad for the U.S. and for our wallets overall. It is also ridiculous to think that this will help given the fact that china, India, and others are not remotely interested in curbing their emissions.

I truly believe its a great idea to invest in renewable energy sources and cleaner fuels as I believe we need to have a capability to produce our own energy. A Bill could be produced that would incentivize industry to invest in this area instead we are going to radically alter our economy in some kind of social expirement based on something short of facts. You could do a lot to optimize, conserve, and generally make better use of our existing energy capabilities without impacting us economically. Why would it be necessary to create such hardship if there are alternatives.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Lets not forget about the other justification made for this legislation, that it will decrease our reliance on foreign oil. I find this really funny since there aren't any bills forthcoming that try to curb our dependence on foreign cars, or our dependence on all the other cheap foreign junk thats made from foreign oil.

 

[Bamboozle]

And no bills to explore or drill for our OWN oil!

 

[Morgan]

Shhhh -- listen -- hear that??? A sound I haven't heard since the mid 90s: the thrumming rotors of black helicopters!

 

[Corndog]

I read this thread with discust.

CT you're a SNAGGER for starting this thread! :rofl:

I come here for the same reason I fish. It's to get my mind off the stress of the day and focus on one of the things that really matter in life. Take this issue up on another forum and lets get back to fish talk here.

Herbert Hoover once said, "As civilizations, cement pavements, office buildings, and radio have overwhelmed us, the need for regeneration has increased. Fishing is a sound, valid reason to go away from here to somewhere else."

Cdog

 

[tompg]

the sooner we burn all the oil, the sooner we don't give a shit about the ****in desert. you know the one with all the oil under it.

 

[BIGBOW]

Its upsetting to see some members so anti any bill that would benefit the environment. Regardless if you buy into global warming or not, what's so bad about a bill that would help keep the planet cleaner? Taxes? Thats B.S. If it costs me a little more to do whats right for the world so be it. We know many of these emissions and pollutants have terrible long term impacts on the earth (who cares if its global warming or not), so why not take a look into better methods of living. I suppose theres no hole in the ozone either? If we leave things the way they are, will they get better or fix themselves? Some of you are the ones buying into a crock of shit! If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Then there are those great people who will go against everything that their party does without thinking for themselves. Gotta love politics.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Thats beautiful. I'd agree with you if this bills purpose was to actually make the Earth cleaner.

And the hole in the ozone layer is so 90's. That problem slowly "went away" after they discovered its been there all along, occurring naturally.

At the end of they day, it doesn't matter, we'll be driving gasoline and diesel engined cars till the day we die. You can't just invent a technological revolution and discover a new energy source because the government commands it. Last time that happened was in the 40's, and the worlds top physicists were involved. I don't see people that smart involved this time.

Going back to tying now.

 

[catskill dick]

Not sure if any of you are aware of the "Climate Bill" that was rammed through congress. No one even got a chance to read the bill. Unless they are more than human and can read and understand a 1200 page bill in five hours. Some of you may argue that "Global Warming" is real and that we need to be "greener". Explain this then, why did arctic sea ice expand by 30% in the year since August 2007- August 2008?? Arctic Ice Grows 30 Per Cent In a Year Must be all that "global warming".

This bill will only help make Al Gore rich and create a huge transfer of power and wealth. Buchanan: Climate Bill Is Transfer Of Wealth To World Government
Going into this they KNEW this would create job losses in an already weak economy. This will cause companies to close and send more jobs over seas where there are no emission standards. This bill has already passed in congress and is headed to the senate. Every one needs to contact their senators and tell them to vote no on this bill. Unless of course you want to pay more for gas, electricity, and anything that produces a "carbon footprint".

CT Tobias,

When you speak of the "Climate Bill" I assume that you mean the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009" which has been available on thomas.loc.gov (the Library of Congress Website) in one form or another since May 15th - over one month before it was "rammed through Congress" (actually, I'm pretty sure it was rammed through the House of Representatives - but why should we let the facts get us all confused). I think that one month is more than enough time to read 1200 pages. The moral of this story - if you care about this issue and want to stay informed don't rely on Rush, Buchanan and the rest of the right wing airbags. Instead, get out there and do some research for yourself. This bill was readily available to anyone that was interested.

 

[MACFLY]

Its upsetting to see some members so anti any bill that would benefit the environment. Regardless if you buy into global warming or not, what's so bad about a bill that would help keep the planet cleaner? Taxes? Thats B.S. If it costs me a little more to do whats right for the world so be it. We know many of these emissions and pollutants have terrible long term impacts on the earth (who cares if its global warming or not), so why not take a look into better methods of living. I suppose theres no hole in the ozone either? If we leave things the way they are, will they get better or fix themselves? Some of you are the ones buying into a crock of shit! If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Then there are those great people who will go against everything that their party does without thinking for themselves. Gotta love politics.

Im pro environment...and anti government is the solution. You need only look at a couple pieces of this legislation to know how bad its going to be be for your wallet. So when you say you will pay a little more...it ends up being a lot more and its not just for one piece of legislation. In other words a little here and a little there adds up to a lot out of your wallet. One small example of this legislation that is troubling (there are many). In order to win voites from agriculture state congressman provisions were made to extend ethanol based fuels even though it has been proven that these fuels are not green and have implications for our food supply costs. So instead of seeking to reduce costs we will continue to pay farmers to grow crops to provide fuel that is not in our best interest. In PA next year the average utility bill will increase 10%..thats before any of this legislation is enacted...so be careful when you sign up to paying for the costs.

 

[MACFLY]

CT Tobias,

When you speak of the "Climate Bill" I assume that you mean the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009" which has been available on thomas.loc.gov (the Library of Congress Website) in one form or another since May 15th - over one month before it was "rammed through Congress" (actually, I'm pretty sure it was rammed through the House of Representatives - but why should we let the facts get us all confused). I think that one month is more than enough time to read 1200 pages. The moral of this story - if you care about this issue and want to stay informed don't rely on Rush, Buchanan and the rest of the right wing airbags. Instead, get out there and do some research for yourself. This bill was readily available to anyone that was interested.

Well lets get our facts straight..The bill was still being written when it was voted on by the house..That is a fact and its got nothing to do with right wing or left wing. Unfortunately, today you dont have anyone reporting the news you only have folks spouting their specific beliefs. You might also want to include in your post the fact that while this bill was being considered work on healthcare and a defense bill were being worked on. Unless you have sat in on committee meetings and worked with representatives on these bills its a little naive to sate unequivocally that you can read the whole bill. The average legislator will work a 12 hour day while in session. Given the political reality of campaigns today, He/she has to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort raising funds for reelection the minute they go into office. while they will work 12 hours a day (many work longer) their staffs will routinely put in the same amount of time.

So If you care about an issue and want to be educated I say dont rely on Rush or Keith olberman or Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow or Mark Levine or Chris Matthews. There are plenty of blowhards on either side of the aisle. First go read the constitution, the declaration of independence, and while your at it the Federalist Papers. You will then have at least a sense of the history of our great country.

 

[catskill dick]

Well lets get our facts straight..The bill was still being written when it was voted on by the house..That is a fact and its got nothing to do with right wing or left wing. Unfortunately, today you dont have anyone reporting the news you only have folks spouting their specific beliefs. You might also want to include in your post the fact that while this bill was being considered work on healthcare and a defense bill were being worked on. Unless you have sat in on committee meetings and worked with representatives on these bills its a little naive to sate unequivocally that you can read the whole bill. The average legislator will work a 12 hour day while in session. Given the political reality of campaigns today, He/she has to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort raising funds for reelection the minute they go into office. while they will work 12 hours a day (many work longer) their staffs will routinely put in the same amount of time.

So If you care about an issue and want to be educated I say dont rely on Rush or Keith olberman or Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow or Mark Levine or Chris Matthews. There are plenty of blowhards on either side of the aisle. First go read the constitution, the declaration of independence, and while your at it the Federalist Papers. You will then have at least a sense of the history of our great country.

I have read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence (not law) and the Federalist Papers (also not law - but boy-oh-boy do you Conservatives seem to think that they are), non of which are relevant to my post. I was trying to make the point that there was plenty of information available to follow this bill and be aware of its contents (and changes to its contents) during the month or so leading up to its passage by the House.

 

[CTobias]

Thread has me wondering...


In general, do flyfishermen tend to be more liberal or more conservative?

(In the current political definitions of those words, of course.)

I for one am Libertarian. In today's government there is hardly a left or a right. They are all one in the same as clearly shown by the current administration carrying over many of the lasts programs. "I will pull all our troops out of Iraq!!" (and then send them to Afghanistan)

Like was stated, a good majority of fisherman in general are moderate, but there are a few who can lean one way or the other. At the end of the day does it matter, not really. I have emailed and sent letters to senators and congress people, it does nothing. Unless you are a lobbyist with a butt load of money to contribute to their campaign, they could care less what you have to say. It's unfortunate and disgusting and Americans need to take back America.

 

[CTobias]

TEN MYTHS of Global Warming - Global Warming Hysteria