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So with your thinking and reasoning it is perfectly ok to kill Americans without due process.

Keeping an eye on domestic terrorists? No, they are labeling people who don't agree with their agenda as possible domestic terrorists. Have you even read the MIAC report? Do you know who they are labeling as potential domestic terrorists? Not just the MIAC report, but reports put out by the DHS as well.

I will give you a brief synopsis. Basically it includes any one who believes in the Constitution, is Christian, flies the Gadsden Flag, Ron Paul supporters, Military Veterans, etc.

So easy for you to give up liberties in the name of "safety". I'm sure you have no problem with the NSA snooping through all your communications too.
 
Americans who openly call for and plot the death of Americans are no longer Americans in my book. MIAC is a report about anti-government militias.
 
fishhead said:
Americans who openly call for and plot the death of Americans are no longer Americans in my book. MIAC is a report about anti-government militias.
Click to expand...

So what about Americans who meet and conspire with known terrorists and Americans who knowingly supply terrorists with weapons and munitions? Are they no longer Americans and do they deserve to get targeted with drones and hellfire missles?
 
Oh, aren't you the sly one. I see the trap. If the individual in question is conspiring with known terrorists to attack Americans and supplying weapons that they know will be used against America or Americans and cannot be captured, by all means, stick a candle up their ass.

CTobias said:
So what about Americans who meet and conspire with known terrorists and Americans who knowingly supply terrorists with weapons and munitions? Are they no longer Americans and do they deserve to get targeted with drones and hellfire missles?
Click to expand...
 
Far Left? The Missouri Information Analysis Center, or MIAC is a "fusion center," combining resources from the federal Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, in particular local agencies. It collects intelligence from both the local agencies and the Department of Homeland Security and uses these combined sources to analyze threats and better combat terrorism and other criminal activity.

CTobias said:
A report by a far left leaning group.
Click to expand...
 
fishhead said:
Far Left? The Missouri Information Analysis Center, or MIAC is a "fusion center," combining resources from the federal Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, in particular local agencies. It collects intelligence from both the local agencies and the Department of Homeland Security and uses these combined sources to analyze threats and better combat terrorism and other criminal activity.
Click to expand...


Who's sitting in the White House? Who controls these organizations? A far left leaning organization. Odd how there isn't one left leaning organization considered a potential domestic terrorist group in the report.
 
fishhead said:
Oh, aren't you the sly one. I see the trap. If the individual in question is conspiring with known terrorists to attack Americans and supplying weapons that they know will be used against America or Americans and cannot be captured, by all means, stick a candle up their ass.
Click to expand...

I guess they need to send this administration and a whole bunch of people from congress to the candle factory then.
 
Report is about the Militia Movement. I understand that you think that the federal government is "far left leaning organization", but it is duly elected. The dozens of other entities run the gamut of state, local, and private organizations that cannot be readily categorized into your left leaning, government controlled model unless you believe that "the conspiracy" has permeated all of these entities as well. I don't know of any left leaning militias. Do you? Isn't the militia movement in answer to perceived left wing tyranny?

CTobias said:
Who's sitting in the White House? Who controls these organizations? A far left leaning organization. Odd how there isn't one left leaning organization considered a potential domestic terrorist group in the report.
Click to expand...
 
fishhead said:
I don't know of any left leaning militias. Do you? Isn't the militia movement in answer to perceived left wing tyranny?
Click to expand...

There is no militia movement. The only left wing organizations I know are domestic terrorists organizations. Weather Underground, founded by Bill Ayers (contributor to the Obama campaign), Southern Poverty Law Center (who worked very closely with the DOJ and Eric Holder). Lets just take a quick look at Barry's associates. Barack Obama -- Associates

I wouldn't say the tyranny from the left is perceived. It's pretty in your face at this point. Amnesty to ILLEGALS!!, NSA Snooping, IRS scandal(s), DOJ investigating journalists, Fast and Furious (a poor attempt by the left to create a scapegoat for more gun legislation), etc. The list goes on and on. If people aren't angry, then they aren't paying attention. If you don't think this administration would use other outlets to demonize and smear people who don't agree with their agenda, then you are sadly mistaken and aren't paying attention to the current events.

A few posts back you were talking about trusting the media. You can't trust any of the half truths the main stream media puts out there. How many of them are even covering all of the scandals that are going on? They might have one story about it, and then it goes away. They are covering up everything for this administration and are critical of nothing except the next vacation the family is going on. Watch the news and see how much coverage their Safari gets.
 
The weather underground hasn't existed for 40 years and the Southern Poverty Law Center is a an unarmed civil rights group, but that is as close as you can come. No militia movement? No media coverage of the scandals? As the facts come out on the scandals, they are getting less and less scandalous, despite the efforts of right wing idealogues. Let the facts come out before you pass judgement based on the commentary of Fox News and Alex Jones.

CTobias said:
There is no militia movement. The only left wing organizations I know are domestic terrorists organizations. Weather Underground, founded by Bill Ayers (contributor to the Obama campaign), Southern Poverty Law Center (who worked very closely with the DOJ and Eric Holder). Lets just take a quick look at Barry's associates. Barack Obama -- Associates

I wouldn't say the tyranny from the left is perceived. It's pretty in your face at this point. Amnesty to ILLEGALS!!, NSA Snooping, IRS scandal(s), DOJ investigating journalists, Fast and Furious (a poor attempt by the left to create a scapegoat for more gun legislation), etc. The list goes on and on. If people aren't angry, then they aren't paying attention. If you don't think this administration would use other outlets to demonize and smear people who don't agree with their agenda, then you are sadly mistaken and aren't paying attention to the current events.

A few posts back you were talking about trusting the media. You can't trust any of the half truths the main stream media puts out there. How many of them are even covering all of the scandals that are going on? They might have one story about it, and then it goes away. They are covering up everything for this administration and are critical of nothing except the next vacation the family is going on. Watch the news and see how much coverage their Safari gets.
Click to expand...
 
I wouldn't say I'm engaging in hyperbole.

I truly believe if they are going to say that Americans who give aide to terrorists are themselves terrorists, then they should be labeled as such.

Look how well things worked out for us in Afghanistan when the CIA supported the pre-madonna Bin Laden.

This is just a proxy war with Iran, Russia, and China, as anyone can see. But there is a bigger reason for it and I just pray to God the end results they wish to obtain don't occur.

I really wish I could locate the YouTube video with the American General talking about taking out Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, and ultimately Iran. He called them the big five, if I recall correctly.

It was from 2005 I believe. He stated it during an interview that very few people probably ever watched.

Scary to think it is all happening now. Those "revolutions" weren't started by the local populace I can tell you that much.
 
Mid-east is a mess, and we have been a major contributor. It is probably the main reason the terrorists hate us. I don't agree with providing weapons to Syrian Rebels for a number of reasons, including the possibility that they will fall into the hands of anti-American extremists. I don't think they will be used against us because I don't think we will be foolish enough to send troops to get involved in Syria, but you never know. I know there are marines in Jordan on the Syrian border, but I am hopeful we are not drawn in. I don't doubt the American general was espousing the neo-con agenda or that our government has worked overtly and covertly over the years to promote "democratic revolutions". I think this is a major f-up on Obama's part, and I see your point, just think it's over the top.
 
I found it!!! General Wesley Clark (RET) from 2007. It was seven countries in five years. I knew there was a five in there some where. Just goes to show you all of this didn't start from demonstrations.

 
in the words of James Hetfield " It's All Fun and Games, Till Someone Losses an Eye". The Middle East has been in turmoil since biblical times. We ain't changing hearts or minds , or winning them for that matter. Only thing that will end the fighting over there is a few ICBM's with about 18 warheads in each. When that happens its over for all of us. When do we get smart and let the world come to us for intervention? Why is it we cannot be isolationists for a decade or two? Who made us the world's policy maker? Sounds like we are little Johnny that has the football and if we don't get to be the quarterback we are taking our ball and go home. I love the United States of America. But since when do we allow illegals to just receive citizenship without going through the program to become citizens? Then we are going to import more folks that will not blend in? Its nice to help folks out, but when you hurt the farmer you hurt the farm. Time to start taking care of the farmer for a while.
 
Lonewolve said:
Spy Drone Can See What You are Wearing From 17,500 Feet - YouTube here you go for the doubters
Click to expand...

They can't say if it has been deployed. Of course it's been deployed! Does anyone think they would let this sit around in a warehouse?
All you have to do is only go out on cloudy days to avoid being seen. Unless the drones are equipped with infra red, then you need to just hide underground.

Nothing to see here folks, move along. This is all for your safety. Go back to sleep now, your reality tv shows are coming on.


Here is the video again. Damn commie Iphone wouldn't let me post the whole link, only the mobile link.

 
And the technology will only get better as we go further into the age of technology and information. Our electronic identities are not private. They never have been. There has always been records for the numbers your phone has contacted and the websites your computer's IP address has visited. Our government is not the sole developer or user of this type of technology. Other interests, from corporations that want to sell us stuff, to religions that want to convert us, to terrorists that want to kill us, to foreign powers that want to defeat us, are all finding ways to improve and use technology to serve their purposes. The genie is out of the bottle, and we may not like it, but we will have to find a way to live with it. I am no less concerned about what individuals, corporations, political ideologies, and special interest groups do with the information they can access as I am about the actions of the government. Perhaps even more so because, in theory at least, our government is supposed to operate in our best interests. The others are under no such compunction. We have all seen the security camera photos that identified the murderer, thief, or rapist. If we are out and around, there is a record of our travels on security cameras. The same cameras that government law enforcement uses to catch the bad guys. We are told now that a database exists detailing all of the calls and duration from every phone in the nation. There is also a government internet information database. Although content is not recorded, data mining this information can reveal details and patterns that can reveal all kinds of highly personal information. It also can be used to identify threats to our nation's security. I don't think the government's revealing its drone capabilities is an accident. We are currently engaged in a national debate on the benefits and dangers of the government's technology, how and under what circumstances our government uses its capabilities, how they should be limited, and the balance that must reach between openly revealing our capabilities without negating their benefits. I don't think this was ever envisioned by writer's of the constitution. Ironically, it should be the first place we look for the answers.


CTobias said:
They can't say if it has been deployed. Of course it's been deployed! Does anyone think they would let this sit around in a warehouse?
All you have to do is only go out on cloudy days to avoid being seen. Unless the drones are equipped with infra red, then you need to just hide underground.

Nothing to see here folks, move along. This is all for your safety. Go back to sleep now, your reality tv shows are coming on.


Here is the video again. Damn commie Iphone wouldn't let me post the whole link, only the mobile link.

Click to expand...
 
fishhead said:
We have all seen the security camera photos that identified the murderer, thief, or rapist. If we are out and around, there is a record of our travels on security cameras. The same cameras that government law enforcement uses to catch the bad guys.
Click to expand...

There are no cameras or recording devices in the bush.
 
Lonewolve said:
in the words of James Hetfield " It's All Fun and Games, Till Someone Losses an Eye". The Middle East has been in turmoil since biblical times. We ain't changing hearts or minds , or winning them for that matter. Only thing that will end the fighting over there is a few ICBM's with about 18 warheads in each. When that happens its over for all of us. When do we get smart and let the world come to us for intervention? Why is it we cannot be isolationists for a decade or two? Who made us the world's policy maker? Sounds like we are little Johnny that has the football and if we don't get to be the quarterback we are taking our ball and go home. I love the United States of America. But since when do we allow illegals to just receive citizenship without going through the program to become citizens? Then we are going to import more folks that will not blend in? Its nice to help folks out, but when you hurt the farmer you hurt the farm. Time to start taking care of the farmer for a while.
Click to expand...

Here is an example of when government is not the answer. Government will never solve the immigration issue until employers stop hiring undocumented workers for the cheap labor they provide. The border with Mexico is close to 2000 miles long and cannot be totally secured. As long as people can improve their lot in life by entering the US across either border, or overstaying visas, and finding work, they will keep coming. Want to stop illegal immigration? Punish the employers.
 
fishhead said:
Here is an example of when government is not the answer. Government will never solve the immigration issue until employers stop hiring undocumented workers for the cheap labor they provide. The border with Mexico is close to 2000 miles long and cannot be totally secured. As long as people can improve their lot in life by entering the US across either border, or overstaying visas, and finding work, they will keep coming. Want to stop illegal immigration? Punish the employers.
Click to expand...

I am sorry. but I am supposed to pay taxes and do the governments job.....If illegals stopped working the country would fall on it's face...all the restaurants would close...all the produce would rot on the vines.....

Restaurants do not employ illegals to save money..we do it because they are the only ones willing to do the work..I pay Americans as much as I pay Ecuadorians...They all have papers....I can't tell what is real and what is not...The government hasn't sent me examples of how they should look. I usually think you have a well thought out argument, and are a sensible person, but "Punish the employer"? we are just trying to run a business that the average American feels they are too good to work in....that is not the solution, a solution, or a good idea......

If you were to take illegals out of the food service industry, it would collapse. No produce would be available, and restaurants would close....not because we had to pay Americans more to do the job, because no one is willing to take the jobs...find me a responsible American in Hunterdon county NJ that will wash dishes 12 hours a day for $9.00 and hour...This is the going rate and what a restaurant can afford after the gov. lays all the taxes and insurance necessary to open....:down:
 
Illegal immigrants are the only ones willing to do that work for those wages. If the undocumented workers were not here to take the jobs, you would have to pay more to get an American worker to do the same job. It's not so much that people don't want to do the job. They don't want to do it for the wages offered. I don't want to deport all the immigrants that have come here illegally. Not only do I appreciate the fact that they are an integral part of the economy, I appreciate that their willingness to work for a lower wage keeps prices down for consumers as well as businesses. I was responding to those "small government" conservatives who resent illegal immigrants and oppose a pathway for those who are here to become citizens. A process they consider "amnesty". We have over 4000 miles of border and somewhere in the vicinity of 11 million illegal immigrants. I believe it is an impossible task for the government to secure the border or deport 11 million people while there is an incentive for people to cross and stay. It was intended as a tongue in cheek response, but you gotta admit-no jobs=no immigrants.


lightenup said:
I am sorry. but I am supposed to pay taxes and do the governments job.....If illegals stopped working the country would fall on it's face...all the restaurants would close...all the produce would rot on the vines.....

Restaurants do not employ illegals to save money..we do it because they are the only ones willing to do the work..I pay Americans as much as I pay Ecuadorians...They all have papers....I can't tell what is real and what is not...The government hasn't sent me examples of how they should look. I usually think you have a well thought out argument, and are a sensible person, but "Punish the employer"? we are just trying to run a business that the average American feels they are too good to work in....that is not the solution, a solution, or a good idea......

If you were to take illegals out of the food service industry, it would collapse. No produce would be available, and restaurants would close....not because we had to pay Americans more to do the job, because no one is willing to take the jobs...find me a responsible American in Hunterdon county NJ that will wash dishes 12 hours a day for $9.00 and hour...This is the going rate and what a restaurant can afford after the gov. lays all the taxes and insurance necessary to open....:down:
Click to expand...
 
Why would Americans want to work for low wages when they can sit on their ass at home and get money for nothing?!!

Progressives have destroyed this Country and the work ethic of many Americans. Illegals are a drain on this economy. I highly doubt they put in what they take, especially since they don't pay taxes!

If you don't have a work visa to be here, too BS so sad. Adios Muchacho.

Illegal is illegal. I don't care how bad it is in the country you came from, you can come here the legal way like many have before you. Deport all their illegal asses. The progressives just need more votes to secure the destruction of this Country.
 
I'm always amazed at the envy of people who are doing well for the lifestyle of the poor. Round up and deport 11 million people and then man the borders to keep them from coming back? Impossible. The majority of illegal workers do pay taxes. Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else, and what they put into SSI, they never get out. They also pay sales tax on purchases.
Historically, progressives have led the way to just about every good thing about this country, beginning with the Founding Fathers who were the first American Progressives.

CTobias said:
Why would Americans want to work for low wages when they can sit on their ass at home and get money for nothing?!!

Progressives have destroyed this Country and the work ethic of many Americans. Illegals are a drain on this economy. I highly doubt they put in what they take, especially since they don't pay taxes!

If you don't have a work visa to be here, too BS so sad. Adios Muchacho.

Illegal is illegal. I don't care how bad it is in the country you came from, you can come here the legal way like many have before you. Deport all their illegal asses. The progressives just need more votes to secure the destruction of this Country.
Click to expand...
 
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