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Ramapo Dilemma

Pete

Trout Hunter
Dilemma - the State is still stocking the Ramapo.
Normally we don't get marginal or lethal temperatures until a month (or so) after stocking is over.

In other topics, we're suggesting that the Delaware and other Catskill streams are too warm to fish.
The Ramapo must be boiling.....
But every Thursday, the State stocks the Ramapo.

If we "catch & eat" they die immediately.
If we "catch & release" they die today.
If we don't fish, they'll die in a few days.

What's the ethical thing to do?
 
Temps are dropping in a couple days. This is a short term threat and most rivers will be fishable by end of the week. Its just the fact that its happening so early in the season that is alarming. Hopefully its just a freak stretch of weather but how can you not think this summer is going to be brutal when this is happening in early may.
 
Let my firm restore it, hook into a few cold springs, and increase DO to the point where a few of those fish can make it through the summer months?

Bid to come out in May at some point ;)
 
Let my firm restore it, hook into a few cold springs, and increase DO to the point where a few of those fish can make it through the summer months?

Bid to come out in May at some point ;)

Hey if you are going to advertise at least pay Dennis the 7 bucks a month fee:)
 
Let my firm restore it, hook into a few cold springs, and increase DO to the point where a few of those fish can make it through the summer months?

Bid to come out in May at some point ;)
Off Topic:
Speaking of which....

At a recent council meeting, during the committee reports....
It was mentioned that there was a setback on the "River Restoration" because, "our contact at Trout Unlimited got another job". He didn't elaborate.
 
Off Topic:
Speaking of which....

At a recent council meeting, during the committee reports....
It was mentioned that there was a setback on the "River Restoration" because, "our contact at Trout Unlimited got another job". He didn't elaborate.

No setback. The Borough of Oakland is putting the bid out sometime this month. While I was still with TU and able to participate on a committee focused on the channel restoration, they got through everything they needed and now it is about to go out for bid. I had to recuse myself from the committee once I went to work with Urbani to avoid future conflict of interest. As VP for Sales & Marketing of Urbani Fisheries, I will be bidding on that work and hope that we win it. Given the parameters for the bid, the winning bidder must be a design and build firm and must have or be able to obtain approval from the NJ Division of F&W to perform this type of restoration work. I like our odds, but you never know. Even if my firm does not win the bid, I have donated my time to preparing the permit as NJTU state council conservation chair. Also, we still have a direct TU representative from your chapter, Pete. Your conservation chair has been on the committee since the beginning and is fully up to speed. There should have been no delays due to my leaving TU, just on the outside engineer's getting the bid specs together.
 
Has any work been done in the Glen Gray area? I was there on Sunday and it looked like they rolled some more rocks into the river upstream from the bridge. Or was the water that low that it looked that way?
Beautiful afternoon and did not see one fish rise. There were olives popping all over. Maybe when the cahills hatch.
 
No setback. The Borough of Oakland is putting the bid out sometime this month. While I was still with TU and able to participate on a committee focused on the channel restoration, they got through everything they needed and now it is about to go out for bid. I had to recuse myself from the committee once I went to work with Urbani to avoid future conflict of interest. As VP for Sales & Marketing of Urbani Fisheries, I will be bidding on that work and hope that we win it. Given the parameters for the bid, the winning bidder must be a design and build firm and must have or be able to obtain approval from the NJ Division of F&W to perform this type of restoration work. I like our odds, but you never know. Even if my firm does not win the bid, I have donated my time to preparing the permit as NJTU state council conservation chair. Also, we still have a direct TU representative from your chapter, Pete. Your conservation chair has been on the committee since the beginning and is fully up to speed. There should have been no delays due to my leaving TU, just on the outside engineer's getting the bid specs together.
Like I said, he didn't elaborate.
That was the April 22 meeting.
The next one is tomorrow. There's nothing about the project on the published "agenda", but it could come up again in the Committee & Liaison reports.
 
Has any work been done in the Glen Gray area? I was there on Sunday and it looked like they rolled some more rocks into the river upstream from the bridge. Or was the water that low that it looked that way?
Beautiful afternoon and did not see one fish rise. There were olives popping all over. Maybe when the cahills hatch.

Yea, we rolled some rocks there.. from my understanding there were two projects done as the first did not have the desired outcome. The second one seemed to have a much better impact, and it funnels water into the main part of the stream creating what looks like nice fishy water...but I have yet to catch a fish in there... I know from years past, risers could always be had up the way, so I'm sure they will be better numbers with the stream improvements (if they're not all already cooked - not by meat fishers but by mother nature)

If I understand the idea behind that structure correctly, it will push the water away from the banks preventing erosion, and will focus the current in the middle. Over time (hopefully) it will scour some deeper water...time will tell
 
Yea, we rolled some rocks there.. from my understanding there were two projects done as the first did not have the desired outcome. The second one seemed to have a much better impact, and it funnels water into the main part of the stream creating what looks like nice fishy water...but I have yet to catch a fish in there... I know from years past, risers could always be had up the way, so I'm sure they will be better numbers with the stream improvements (if they're not all already cooked - not by meat fishers but by mother nature)

If I understand the idea behind that structure correctly, it will push the water away from the banks preventing erosion, and will focus the current in the middle. Over time (hopefully) it will scour some deeper water...time will tell

The first "rock rolling" was a large crew involving two conservation groups.
  • EJTU took the lead, but we were a bunch of decrepit old pharts, (I was NOT the oldest guy there).

    MEVO (a bunch of "Greenies" from Mahwah) supplied a bunch of strong young bodies.

    Also participating were unaffiliated volunteers from Oakland, and Ramapo College.

    A certain TU staffer stood in the middle of the river and "pointed" at stuff. :)

They got a lot done and it made a big difference. They accomplished their goals.
After observing the results during the following year, it was determined that some "fine tuning" was appropriate.
The second stage was a much smaller crew from TU (w/o Brian but with Thursthouse).

BACK ON TOPIC
After Fly14 replied to my first post, I checked the temperature on the USGS gauge at the Pompton Lake Dam.
It was in the low 70s F, and appeared to be dropping into the 60s nightly.
If the water below the Dam is marginal, we're probably not having any massive fish kills in the upstream areas.
All this crying about the Delaware and the Catskills misled me.
 
A certain Trout Unlimited staffer stood in the middle of the river and "pointed" at stuff.

Hey, I resemble that remark! :)


They got a lot done and it made a big difference. They accomplished their goals.
After observing the results during the following year, it was determined that some "fine tuning" was appropriate.
The second stage was a much smaller crew from Trout Unlimited (w/o Brian but with Thursthouse).

Whenever I supervise any "hand rock rolling" projects, it is almost always necessary to come back to tweak things. It is much easier to do it once with a large track excavator, but the hand built weirs just above the Glen Gray Road bridge were large and required more work than volunteers could do in a long day. I went back with the chapter's (then) president and their conservation chair to suggest just what needed to be tweaked since I wasn't able to help them the day they set for round two. The restoration plan that Oakland will be putting out for bid later this month will address issues like this from that bridge downstream for approx. 2 3/4 miles, but will allow the use of excavators and large boulders to improve flows and habitat in that river in Oakland down to the US Army Corps dredging project to reduce flooding downstream including gates on the Pompton Lake dam, a diversion weir on Potash Lake in Oakland, etc.

I should add that Oakland hopes by doing the project, upstream neighbors in Mahwah and in NY state take notice and possibly perform similar restoration or better protection of the river.
 
.............I should add that Oakland hopes by doing the project, upstream neighbors in Mahwah and in NY state take notice and possibly perform similar restoration or better protection of the river.
The timing may not be right (Mahwah is in the midst of some VERY contentious political battles now), but have you guys considered giving them a presentation similar to the one that got all this started in Oakland.
 
The timing may not be right (Mahwah is in the midst of some VERY contentious political battles now), but have you guys considered giving them a presentation similar to the one that got all this started in Oakland.

It's been talked about, but it was beyond the scope of my TU job and would now seem self-serving given my new job. But the East Jersey chapter could certainly approach Mahwah and I would be more than willing to help them prepare a PP presentation for same.
 
Update: I fished the Ramapo last night and the fish are fine. Tons of bugs. I mean tons. Cahills everywhere, midges, tiny blue wings, caddis. Even saw a couple rise. 3 on dry dropper, left them alone after an hour or so.
 
OFF TOPIC
There was no mention of the river project at last nights Council meeting, but the same councilman mentioned a good turnout from Trout Unlimited on an unrelated "Clean-up project" on Skyline Drive.
IMHO: This indicates that they are communicating with the right people.

ON TOPIC
coloradoguide - Did you happen to take a water temperature reading?
 
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Somewhere on the 'Po after the restoration, several pools that are built will hook into some colder groundwater and some trout will begin to summer over. Or at least that is my hope. Dissolved oxygen will also be greatly increased which is essential on marginal rivers like the Ramapo. It happened near the lower Paulins Kill when we restored a mile and a half nearly 3 summers ago now. The club used to replace 100% of their trout each fall and again in spring only to lose them all each summer and only see smallies in that water. Now nearly all their trout survive, so they have begun to feed them to keep them growing and around and so they don't need to stock as many big fish which cost a lot more.
 
Didn't an older member of EJTU die of a heart attack from the rock rolling back then ?
 
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