Large Arbor...WHY?

Pete

Pete

Trout Hunter
If you look at flyfishing catalogs and magazine ads these days, you see more large arbor models, and fewer standard arbor model reels. It's getting hard to find a modern "top of the line" reel with a standard arbor.
Someone must be buying them .... But WHY?

For a given spool diameter and width:
  • 1.Large arbor reels hold less backing. When I was learning, the conventional wisdom, was to use as much backing as possible. You might not need it often, but you don't want to get "spooled" when you finally hook a monster.

    2, Regarding the "faster retrieve" hype. I don't buy it. For the same outside diameter, and spool width, a properly filled reel will have the same retrieve rate, whether the arbor is made of metal, or of backing.

    3. Large arbor reels tend to be more expensive. Much more than the cost of additional backing.

    4. In the "trout sizes" the weight savings is only one or two tenths of an ounce. How weak are you?

    5. In larger (saltwater/salmon/steelhead) sizes, weight savings can be significant. But isn't that when you might actually need the extra backing on a regular basis?
I don't "get it". Can someone please enlighten me?
 
Last edited:
the retreive is not that much of a difference, but it def is less annoying reeling a larger arbor reel. I had an abel tr2 and the arbor was tiny. Shittiest reel I ever bought for $350. I just buy lamson now. Drag systems tend to be better on large arbor reels. smoother and more sensitive since it is pulling on a larger diameter (when the actual reel is larger. my tr2 was tiny and stupid). The whole backing thing is kinda pointless. Who ever goes far into their backing on trout? Steelhead and stripers I can imagine, but my salt reel is large arbor and carries 300 yards of backing no prob which i will never need. You make a compelling arguement, but nothing worth changing my mind about LA reels
 
Pete said:
If you look at flyfishing catalogs and magazine ads these days, you see more large arbor models, and fewer standard arbor model reels. It's getting hard to find a modern "top of the line" reel with a standard arbor.
Someone must be buying them .... But WHY?

For a given spool diameter and width:
  • 1.Large arbor reels hold less backing. When I was learning, the conventional wisdom, was to use as much backing as possible. You might not need it often, but you don't want to get "spooled" when you finally hook a monster.

    2, Regarding the "faster retrieve" hype. I don't buy it. For the same outside diameter, and spool width, a properly filled reel will have the same retrieve rate, whether the arbor is made of metal, or of backing.

    3. Large arbor reels tend to be more expensive. Much more than the cost of additional backing.

    4. In the "trout sizes" the weight savings is only one or two tenths of an ounce. How weak are you?

    5. In larger (saltwater/salmon/steelhead) sizes, weight savings can be significant. But isn't that when you might actually need the extra backing on a regular basis?
I don't "get it". Can someone please enlighten me?
Click to expand...

Pete it's all a matter of personal preference, but since you asked...

1. Most LA 5wt size reels will hold 150 yds of 20 lb dacron backing, more if gel spun. Add 30 yds of fly line.

2. The retrieve rate is faster. Remember, on a "conventional" reel, as the line backing goes out the "arbor" gets smaller and smaller. Not the case with a large arbor.

3. Large arbor reels can be more expensive, depends on what you buy. There are some pretty pricey pawl drag reels out there too.

4. It's not weight but function. Large arbor reels are often heavier than their standard arbor counter part. If your priority is the lightest reel you'd go to a standard arbor in the higher price range, more expensive than most large arbors.

5. A large arbor in a common inshore saltwater size can easily hold 325 yds of 35 lb backing. If that's not enough you're going to need a bigger boat. Bluewater reels hold 600 yds or more of 50 lb backing.

Another LA benefit is that your line isn't stored in as tight a coil as a standard arbor alleviating memory problems. But when it comes to reels the real beauty is that standard, mid and large arbor reels are all available in price points to fit the budget of most anglers.

Hope your enlightened :)
 
I think a lot of the large arbor "craze" is rooted in the industry's natural tendency to follow each other in terms of aesthetics and style. Just like car bodies, clothes, cell phones etc. Once large arbors became THE design concept, which manufacturer is going to jump back to an old style. That sounds risky on the business end.

That being said, I like large arbors for the reasons Joe outlined. The situation that I recognize the advantage on a regular basis is on my saltwater reels. Unlike a day on the stream, in the salt your FULL fly line is going to come off the reel regardless of fish hooked, as you are simply casting that much line. Even though a line should be stretched prior to fishing, having it stored on the reel in the largest coils possible, helps it get to it's most manageable/castable state fast.

~James
 
Regarding the "larger coils", and "faster retrieve" argument...
I'm comparing filled reels with the same spool width and outside diameter.

Imagine the Same reel frame with two interchangeable spools, one with a large arbor, one with a standard arbor, and more backing (like the Abel "Super" series). If you never use the extra backing, there's no difference. If you do, you'll be glad it was there.

PRICE/WEIGHT
Abel makes reels with both options, on the same basic reel.
I made my comparisons here:
Abel Reels - Super Series
and here:
Abel Reels - Abel Creek Reels

DRAG:
Abel uses the same drag for both but....
IF... the extra room inside the hub, allows a superior drag, at a lower cost, that argument may have some merit.
 
Last edited:
Joe D said:
Pete it's all a matter of personal preference, but since you asked...

1. Most LA 5wt size reels will hold 150 yds of 20 lb dacron backing, more if gel spun. Add 30 yds of fly line.

2. The retrieve rate is faster. Remember, on a "conventional" reel, as the line backing goes out the "arbor" gets smaller and smaller. Not the case with a large arbor.

3. Large arbor reels can be more expensive, depends on what you buy. There are some pretty pricey pawl drag reels out there too.

4. It's not weight but function. Large arbor reels are often heavier than their standard arbor counter part. If your priority is the lightest reel you'd go to a standard arbor in the higher price range, more expensive than most large arbors.

5. A large arbor in a common inshore saltwater size can easily hold 325 yds of 35 lb backing. If that's not enough you're going to need a bigger boat. Bluewater reels hold 600 yds or more of 50 lb backing.

Another LA benefit is that your line isn't stored in as tight a coil as a standard arbor alleviating memory problems. But when it comes to reels the real beauty is that standard, mid and large arbor reels are all available in price points to fit the budget of most anglers.

Hope your enlightened :)
Click to expand...

Large arbor reels have a better line to retrieve ratio. A conventional real might have a 3 to 4 inch line retrieval ratio. A large arbor might have a 6 to 10 inch ratio. I disagree with line memory a good line will not have memory. A large arbor reel will give not much benefit while trout fishing. I personally have never had a problem with my conventional Hardy’s capacity for getting the job done. I have never lost a fish due to reel issues. Larger fish ( stripers, salmon, steelheads) you would see the benefit.
 
tomfly said:
Large arbor reels have a better line to retrieve ratio. A conventional real might have a 3 to 4 inch line retrieval ratio. A large arbor might have a 6 to 10 inch ratio. I disagree with line memory a good line will not have memory. A large arbor reel will give not much benefit while trout fishing. I personally have never had a problem with my conventional Hardy’s capacity for getting the job done. I have never lost a fish due to reel issues. Larger fish ( stripers, salmon, steelheads) you would see the benefit.
Click to expand...
Again...
SAME Outside diameter and width...
What difference does it make if you have a large arbor made of metal, or a small arbor built up with backing?
 
Piles of trapped wet backing will hold the moisture and deteriorate faster. That presence of moisture will also have reel-wide issues as well over time.

~James
 
jcstikfish said:
Piles of trapped wet backing will hold the moisture and deteriorate faster. That presence of moisture will also have reel-wide issues as well over time.

~James
Click to expand...
Good point, for an unvented reel, but that's not usually included in the promotional literature..
Wouldn't that also be true of any significant amount of backing, regardless of arbor size?
The distance from the vent holes on the sides of the spool to the centerline, remains the same.

skipper3245 said:
whats the benifit of having a small arbor reel?
Click to expand...
More backing for the same size reel (assuming you need it, or at least want to be ready).
More versatility on line size.
Based on a brand with otherwise identical reels, lower price (see the links in my post #6 above) .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SO FAR:
I'm can't agree that "Faster retrieve - bigger coils" have anything to do with arbor size. The outer coils of the line aren't anywhere near the arbor.
This seems to be the hype used to sell these reels....That's what I was challenging.

I can agree that neglected reels may suffer from James' "More backing = More moisture" hypothesis.
That's the first time, I ever heard of backing being considered a "bad" thing.

I can agree with skipper3245's point, that some drags (eg "Conic") may benefit from the extra room inside the hub.
 
Why does anyone try to re-invent the mousetrap?.......Maybe the large arbor idea had a good salesman. It seems as if each has its own strengths and weaknesses..I have never used a large arbor reel so I have no opinion, but from the points made it seems as if it was just another way to look at the reel.....remember those auto retrieves? What were they good for?
 
Pete said:
Regarding the "larger coils", and "faster retrieve" argument...
I'm comparing filled reels with the same spool width and outside diameter.

Imagine the Same reel frame with two interchangeable spools, one with a large arbor, one with a standard arbor, and more backing (like the Abel "Super" series). If you never use the extra backing, there's no difference. If you do, you'll be glad it was there.

PRICE/WEIGHT
Abel makes reels with both options, on the same basic reel.
I made my comparisons here:
Abel Reels - Super Series
and here:
Abel Reels - Abel Creek Reels

DRAG:
Abel uses the same drag for both but....
IF... the extra room inside the hub, allows a superior drag, at a lower cost, that argument may have some merit.
Click to expand...

Try comparing different manufactures:
Large Arbor Fly Reels / Mirage Reels -- Orvis
Fly Reels / CFO Disc Drag Fly Fishing Reel -- Orvis

A large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel frame really isn't the same as a large arbor reel. That's like putting a six weight line on a three weight rod and then thinking you now have a six weight rod.

So what your question really becomes is, why put a large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel?
 
Pete said:
Regarding the "larger coils", and "faster retrieve" argument...
I'm comparing filled reels with the same spool width and outside diameter.

Imagine the Same reel frame with two interchangeable spools, one with a large arbor, one with a standard arbor, and more backing (like the Abel "Super" series). If you never use the extra backing, there's no difference. If you do, you'll be glad it was there.

PRICE/WEIGHT
Abel makes reels with both options, on the same basic reel.
I made my comparisons here:
Abel Reels - Super Series
and here:
Abel Reels - Abel Creek Reels

DRAG:
Abel uses the same drag for both but....
IF... the extra room inside the hub, allows a superior drag, at a lower cost, that argument may have some merit.
Click to expand...


As Tomfly posted earlier, with 30' of fly line out when fishing for trout, there's not that much difference. But when fishing SW, and casting your entire line, there is a difference. In addition, SW fish are more likely to take you into your backing during the fight. Check out most of the LA spools and you will see they have a wider spool diameter to allow enough backing capacity. Peel off your entire flyline on each reel and you will find the diameter of the line left on a LA spool will be significantly larger than the conventional arbor spool since the line is distributed across the wider LA spool. Therefore each turn of the LA spool will take in more line.

One thing to be careful of with a LA, is the wider spool makes it easier to wind the line unevenly on the spool when fighting a fish, and the bunched up line on wound on one side of the spool may hang up on the reel body. Fish off...

Trout, panfish, bass....no big deal. Salmon, steelies, SW.....LA rules.
 
Joe D said:
Try comparing different manufactures:
Large Arbor Fly Reels / Mirage Reels -- Orvis
Fly Reels / CFO Disc Drag Fly Fishing Reel -- Orvis

A large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel frame really isn't the same as a large arbor reel. That's like putting a six weight line on a three weight rod and then thinking you now have a six weight rod.

So what your question really becomes is, why put a large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel?
Click to expand...
I used Abel to get a comparison of weight and cost only. I wasn't endorsing it.

The Orvis pages you referenced, don't give enough data (like spool width), to make an "apples to apples" comparison. From the illustrations, it would appear that the CFO has a much narrower spool for a given diameter, and only it's largest model has an overlap on outside diameter. They're too different to compare.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My "evil plan" didn't work.

The forum has been a bit slow recently....

I've notices that a little controversy, often produces lots of posts.
I was trying to start a debate about fly fishing (as opposed to who's the "biggest boob").
With less than 20 replies, mostly on the same side, the effort was unsuccessful. :(
 
Pete, you can use any large arbor reel and standard arbor reel as a comparison for an apples to apples comparison. What isn't an apples to apples comparison is using a large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel. The comparison I gave you is a large arbor reel and a standard arbor reel designed for the same line weights.

The argument you are trying to make doesn't exist. If you like standard arbor reels, that's great, use them. If you like large arbor reels, that's great too, use those. If you like a large arbor spool on a standard arbor reel you can even use that. Individual preference is why there are different types and style of reels made. If you fish for varying species in different situations would would come to understand there is a place for all reel types.
 
lightenup said:
Why does anyone try to re-invent the mousetrap?.......Maybe the large arbor idea had a good salesman. It seems as if each has its own strengths and weaknesses..I have never used a large arbor reel so I have no opinion, but from the points made it seems as if it was just another way to look at the reel.....remember those auto retrieves? What were they good for?
Click to expand...

That is Capitalism in one sentience. Look at it this way; If the mousetrap was not reinvented from time to time, humans would still be rubbing two sticks together.
 
Pete,
you are comparing reels apples to apples but not size reel. I have a hardy LRH the spool diameter is 2.87" hold a DT 5 and 55 yrds I also have hew Hardy ultra light 4000DD the spool diameter is 3.74" and it holds a DT 5 and 50 yards of backing. with those two reels I can strip off the fly line and reel it in twice as fast with the LA. do you need it - only when you do nice fish runs at you, I can not tell you the number of clients I have taken out that have to line trip to keep up too a decent fish that has run at them with a regular arbor. Oh my Hardy Uniqua # 5 has pretty much the same diameter as the untra light and holds a wf 10 and 350 yards of 30 pound backing. An YES it does keep the line from coiling. I have to strech the line on my LRH ever time I use it,not on the LA. Do you need it No but that is what is so great about this sport you don't have too but don't question why some one else would.

Steve
 
steve b said:
Pete,
you are comparing reels apples to apples but not size reel. I have a hardy LRH the spool diameter is 2.87" hold a DT 5 and 55 yrds I also have hew Hardy ultra light 4000DD the spool diameter is 3.74" and it holds a DT 5 and 50 yards of backing. with those two reels I can strip off the fly line and reel it in twice as fast with the LA. do you need it - only when you do nice fish runs at you, I can not tell you the number of clients I have taken out that have to line trip to keep up too a decent fish that has run at them with a regular arbor. Oh my Hardy Uniqua # 5 has pretty much the same diameter as the untra light and holds a wf 10 and 350 yards of 30 pound backing. An YES it does keep the line from coiling. I have to strech the line on my LRH ever time I use it,not on the LA. Do you need it No but that is what is so great about this sport you don't have too but don't question why some one else would.

Steve
Click to expand...
By "size" do you mean what the manufacturer says?
Ignore that, you can put on any size line you want.

Make your choice based on the spool outside diameter, width, weight, (and quality).
If you end up putting a 5 weight line on a reel that the manufacturer claims is for 8 weight, and you only gained two tenths of an ounce, but can fit more backing, you're ready for the monster you're hoping for, and your only loss is the energy it takes to lift two tenths of an ounce.

Don't worry about whether it looks high tech, or what the latest style is. It's a reel, not a new dress.

Disclaimer: If you're a guide, or involved in tackle sales, style and looks, may matter.
 
has anyone on here ever gotten anywhere near the end of their backing on a trout? I have caught trout up to 30 inches and got no where near the end of my backing.
 
skipper3245 said:
has anyone on here ever gotten anywhere near the end of their backing on a trout? I have caught trout up to 30 inches and got no where near the end of my backing.
Click to expand...

Just once. An osprey grabbed a fish I had on. Fish turned on it's side in a riffle. Next thing I know line is peeling off, heading skyward! True story.

~James
 
tomfly said:
That is Capitalism in one sentience. Look at it this way; If the mousetrap was not reinvented from time to time, humans would still be rubbing two sticks together.
Click to expand...


Yes Tom, I agree...the point I was trying to make was that the mouse trap we have, you know the one with the flipping spring killing arm? That is the best one ever made.....but for some reason people think they can make something better to kill mice....sure I have no problem that they keep trying, because there is always some moron who will buy the more expensive crappy mouse trap that doesn't work as well. I was being a bit facetious.....:)
 
Rest assured that on April 26, 2013 which is the next coming Arbor Day, I will be sure to raise a glass and give humble thanks to all arbors large and small.
 
Large arbors are great. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top