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Giant Straw to Suck up East Branch

eelweir

New member
Guys,

Check out the below story. Potentially really bad news for you East Branch fishers. Our good friends at Chesapeake Energy want to suck up 1 million gallons/per day of water at Peas Eddy on the lower East for their gas drilling scheme. Note: "Peace Island," as its mistakenly called in the story, is really Pea's Island, which is part of Pea's Eddy, for those who know it. There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea. Here are two that immediately come to mind:

1.) The lower East Branch is thermally challenged to begin with. Why make it worse by de-watering it even more?

2.) How can they assure us they will not be sucking up trout fry, shad fry, smallmouth fry, walleye fry, aquatic insects, etc.

There will be public hearings on this beginning on Dec. 4th (details are below). All Catskill fishers who give a damn about the river(s) should come and tell these guys: NOT ONE DROP FROM OUR RIVERS...

Here's the article:

DRBC gets 1st gas well application

By Peter Becker
Wayne Independent
Mon Nov 10, 2008, 05:18 PM EST

NARROWSBURG, NY -

Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) has received the first application for a permit docket, from a natural gas company hoping to drill into the Marcellus Shale in the Upper Delaware region.
Chesapeake Energy Corporation’s request is for water withdrawal from the East Branch of the Delaware River, said Carol Collier, Executive Director of the DRBC, reporting to the Upper Delaware Council (UDC) in Narrowsburg, Thursday night. She said specific well sites were not mentioned in the application and it is not clear if the wells will be in Wayne County, Pennsylvania or on the New York side.
The request is to take as much as 999,999 gallons a day from the East Branch near Peace Island. DRBC received the application in late October; and is studying the best way to handle this.
Fred Peckham, who is the Alternate Delegate to the UDC for the Town of Hancock, said that Chesapeake has been in touch with Hancock Town government, about Chesapeake’s intentions to drill four wells near the Millennium Pipeline. This natural gas pipeline is being built through the Town of Hancock. Peckham speculated this application may have to do with this.
Meanwhile, no application has been received from Stone Energy Corporation for their test well that was dug last May in Clinton Township, Wayne County. Collier said that DRBC is moving ahead “positively” in enforcing Stone Energy to comply and hopes to have a report at the December UDC meeting.
Meetings in NY on gas issue
The New York Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) has scheduled six public “scoping” meetings to record comment on the environmental impact of natural gas drilling in the Marcellus Shale region in New York State. DEC is taking comment through December 15 in preparation for a final “Generic Environmental Impact Statement (GEIS).”
The closest meeting to the Upper Delaware is scheduled Thursday, December 4, at Sullivan County Community College, Fieldhouse, 112 College Road, Loch Sheldrake, NY. Doors will open at 4:30 p.m., with brief remarks by DEC staff starting at 5;15 p.m. Public comments will be taken beginning at 6 p.m.
DEC’s draft statement looked at water withdrawal for hydraulic fracturing, transport of water to the site, use of additives to the fracturing fluid, space and facilities at the well site to ensure proper handling of water and additives, removal of spent additives and its disposal, noise, visual and air quality concerns and potential community impacts.
Willie Janeway was introduced as the Regional Director for DEC Region 3, which includes Sullivan and Orange counties in the Upper Delaware Corridor. He urged citizens to come and give input at the scoping meetings. He said they are glad for the cleaner fuel source natural gas drilling promises, and lessening dependency on foreign oil, but DEC remains “absolutely committed” to a thorough review of environmental impact.
DEC is under a state-ordered hiring freeze, and they are looking to cut expenses, said Janeway. In response, George Fluhr, the UDC delegate for Shohola Township, asked in that case, does DEC have a good working relationship with their Pennsylvania counterpart, Department of Environmental Protection (DEP)?
Janeway said that they do but DEP has different standards, and suggested that New York’s oversight was more “aggressive”. “There is communication with [Pa.-DEP] but not so much coordination,” he added. Fluhr suggested avoiding duplication.
Janeway said that if DEC’s staffing becomes a concern, DEC will adjust how many gas well permits are authorized, so that DEC will still be able to regulate them.
See the DEC web site for more information at New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.
 
They haven't won anything just yet but something tells me that the guy with the most money usually prevails. The entire river situation (releases) in my opinion is a real shame. Too bad they aren't fishermen.
 
Dude,

Come to the public hearing and tell them that!!
THINK BOSTON TEA PARTY!! THINK BUNKER HILL!! EMBRACE YOUR INNER PATRIOT!!!

THINK BREAVEHEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!

--EW
 
it's important to raise the issue of the environmental impact of water withdrawals from the east branch at these hearings because that makes sure that the state evaluates this impact in its environmental impact statement as required by state law. Once people have raised this issue at the hearing they have the ability to sue if the state either doesn't look at the issue or doesn't evaluate it sufficiently. If we don't raise the issue we don't have standing to sue so it's important to participate. I'd be happy to speak on it at the hearing if someone is driving up from the city to the hearing and can give me a ride (i'll obviously help pay for gas and tolls) - it's good practice for me as a future environmental lawyer.
 
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Taking it one step further, what will that amount of withdrawn water mean to flows on the main stem?
 
Man, it's just one thing after another, ain't it?

Maybe this would force more water to be released from Pepacton??

Won't be able to make meeting, but many, many thanks to those who will.
 
Please do not consider this as condoning the withdrawal, I do not. But keep in mind the scale, is pretty small. 1 Millions gallons a day, is a small fraction of the water already drawn out from the system. NYC uses an average of 300-600 Million gallons a day, and averages just over 500 mgd. They are legally entitled to 800 million gallons a day.

The issue is not the million gallons, it is the bad precedent set by allowing it. The road to perdition, begins with a single step in the wrong direction.
 
Keep in mind the million gallons would only be the tip of the iceberg. there are a bunch of gas companies poking around up there with the potential for hundreds of wells. Do the math and it's pretty damn scary. And adding insult to injury, let's not forget the potentail runoff that could go back into the watershed...

NOT ONE DROP...NOT ONE DROP...NOT ONE DROP....
 
If my math is right, 1 million gallons is equal to about 5 CFS if withdrawn over 8 hrs. Not alot of water if used in that fashion. Of course if withdrawn over shorter periods... that could be significant.

I think a bigger question is what exactly they will do with it??? and what will the water contain when it runs back into the river????
 
Hi Fred,

You are exactly right.

I do not think the quantitiy of water should be the real issue here. It is not that much water. When the East Branch is running at 2000 cfs, it will not be noticed. Perhaps the withdrawls, if they have to happen, should be only allowed when the river is at some high level. Golf courses typically have withdrawl permits for much more water.

The precedent is not a good one to set.

The real environmental concern is what happens to the 700,000 gallons that comes back out after the frac is completed.

This application is most likely for the gas well that is going to be drilled on the Van Peters property at Peas Eddy. There are currently 4 wells proposed in the area for the near future.

Jim
 
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All good points!! Come to the hearing and make them in person. If you can't come, write 'em down and mail 'em in. Scroll down to see lots of info on on the upcoming public hearings and how to comment -- both in writing and in person (best to come in person, but if you can't make it PLEASE send in written comments).

It doesn't matter whether the river is flowing at 5 cfs or 2000 cfs -- any water from our precious Catskill Rivers -- clean, cold, TROUT WATER, mind you! -- that will be hauled away, fouled with chemicals, and belched into the ground to wind up God-knows-where is beyond wrong.

The companies that are trying to ram this down our throats ought to be ashamed of themselves. The DEC must do its job and protect this Class I trout river, which is a public resource -- not a private reservoir for a few Fortune 500 companies.

NO DRILLING IN THE DELAWARE WATERSHED!!!!

NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!!

Public Notice
Second Notice of Availability for Review
Draft Scope for Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program

Well Permit Issuance for Horizontal Drilling and High-Volume Hydraulic Fracturing to Develop the Marcellus Shale and Other Low-Permeability Gas Reservoirs

The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (Department or NYS DEC) is responsible for regulating the development and production of oil and gas resources in New York State. Natural gas exploration and production companies, and mineral rights owners, are interested in developing a potentially significant gas resource in the Marcellus Shale through the use of horizontal drilling and a hydraulic fracturing technique known as "slick water fracturing." This technique requires large volumes of water. The Department has identified the action of well permit issuance when high-volume hydraulic fracturing is proposed as one which requires further review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA). The first step in that process is issuance of a Draft Scope for public review and comment.

On October 6, 2008 The Department released the Draft Scope for the Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program (draft SGEIS). Along with the Draft Scope, a Notice of Availability for Review was also issued, detailing the locations where the Draft Scope and its supporting materials, the 1992 Findings Statement and a Glossary of Technical Terms, could be reviewed by the public. The purpose of this Second Notice of Availability for Review is to announce additional locations where the public can access and review the Draft Scope and its supporting materials. These additional locations, in addition to the original locations, are listed under "Document Availability," and have been added in an effort to increase the accessibility of the documents in the New York City area.

In addition to the locations identified below, the Draft Scope may be downloaded and reviewed from the Department's website at: Draft Scope for Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation.

As detailed below, the Department is accepting written comments on the Draft Scope until December 15, 2008, and will be accepting verbal comments at a series of public scoping meetings which will be held at six venues in the Southern Tier and Catskills, throughout November and December. The meeting schedule was announced in a Notice of Public Scoping, and is posted on the Department's website at: Marcellus Shale - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation.

The primary goals of the scoping process are to focus the draft SGEIS on any potentially significant adverse impacts of the proposed Marcellus Shale gas well drilling and to eliminate consideration of any impacts that are irrelevant or non-significant. The Draft Scope presently available for review describes the topics related to well permit issuance for high-volume hydraulic fracturing that the Department has identified for review in the SGEIS. After consideration of written and verbal comments from interested parties, the Department will release a Final Scope. A copy of the Final Scope will be posted on the Department's website, provided to document repositories, and provided to all parties who submit written comments.

The Final Scope will serve as the outline and table of contents for the Draft SGEIS, which will also be made available for additional public review and comment. The final SGEIS, to be prepared after consideration of comments received on the draft, will set parameters for SEQRA review in addition to those established by the existing Generic Environmental Impact Statement (GEIS) on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program and its Findings. The Department will then issue well permits for gas well development using high-volume hydraulic fracturing in accordance with both the GEIS and the SGEIS.

Comments: Written comments will be accepted by mail or email until the close of business on December 15, 2008. Mail comments to: Attention: Scope Comments, Bureau of Oil & Gas Regulation, NYS DEC Division of Mineral Resources, 625 Broadway, 3rd Floor, Albany, NY 12233-6500. E-mail comments to: dmnog@gw.dec.state.ny.us with "Scope Comments" in the subject line. Include your name and return mail or E-mail address to ensure receipt of a copy of the Final Scope when it is available.

As previously mentioned, verbal comments will be accepted at the six public scoping sessions detailed on the Department's website at Marcellus Shale - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation.

To avoid duplication, and to ensure that the SGEIS serves to complement the GEIS, interested persons are urged to carefully review the GEIS, which may be found online at Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation, in connection with the preparation of any comments.

Document Availability: In addition to the Department's website at Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation, copies of the draft scope, the 1992 Findings Statement, and a Glossary of Technical Terms are available for review at the following locations:

NYS DEC Headquarters
Bureau of Oil & Gas Regulation
Division of Mineral Resources
625 Broadway
Albany, NY 12233-6500
Contact: Kathy Sanford or Carrie Friello
Phone: ( 518) 402-8056

Locations in NYS DEC Region 2, New York City

New York Public Library website: The New York Public Library
This website can be accessed from any computer with internet service and librarians at any branch of the New York Public Library can assist with accessing the document elecronically.

Paper copies of the document will be available at:

New York Public Library
Science, Industry and Business Library
188 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10016-4314

New York Public Library
St. George Library Center
5 Central Avenue
Staten Island, NY 10301

New York Public Library
Bronx Library Center
310 East Kingsbridge Road
Bronx, NY 10458

Brooklyn Public Library
10 Grand Army Plaza #1
Brooklyn, NY 11238

Queens Borough Public Library
89-11 Merrick Boulevard
Jamaica, NY 11432

Locations in NYS DEC Region 3

NYS DEC Region 3 Headquarters
21 South Putt Corners Road
New Paltz, NY 12561-1696
Contact: Halina Duda
Phone: (845) 256-3000

NYS DEC Region 3, White Plains Sub-Office
100 Hillside Avenue, Suite 1W
White Plains, NY 10603-2860
Contact: Beth Zicca
Phone: (914) 428-2505

Goshen Public Library
203 Main Street
Goshen, NY 10924

Port Jervis Public Library
138 Pike Street
Port Jervis, NY 12771

Kingston Library
55 Franklin Street
Kingston, NY 12401

Ellenville Public Library
40 Center Street
Ellenville, NY 12428-1396

Crawford Public Library
393 Broadway
Monticello, NY 12701

Town of Delaware Free Library
Lower Main Street
Callicoon, NY 12723

Locations in NYS DEC Region 4

NYS DEC Region 4, Stamford Sub-office
65561 State Highway 10, Suite 1
Stamford, NY 12167
Contact: Kent Sanders
Phone: (607) 652-3722

Huntington Memorial Library
Attn: Marie Bruni
62 Chestnut Street
Oneonta, NY 13820

William B. Ogden Free Library
42 Gardner Place
Walton, NY 13856

Windham Public Library
Attn: Candice Begley
P.O. Box 158
Windham, NY 12496

Locations in NYS DEC Region 7

NYS DEC Region 7 Headquarters
615 Erie Boulevard West
Syracuse, NY 13204-2400
Contact: Diane Carlton
Phone: (315) 426-7403

NYS DEC Region 7, Cortland Sub-Office
1285 Fisher Avenue
Cortland, NY 13045-1090
Contact: Jerry Rasmussen
Phone: (607) 753-3095, ext. 298

NYS DEC Region 7, Rogers Education Center
2721 State Highway 80
Sherburne, NY 13460-0594
Contact: Marsha Guzewich
Phone: (607) 674-4017

NYS DEC Region 7, Kirkwood Sub-Office
1679 NY Route 11
Kirkwood NY, 13795
Contact: Donna Baker
Phone: (607) 775-2545

Broome County Public Library
185 Court Street
Binghamton, NY 13901

Local History and Genealogy Department
The Galleries of Syracuse
447 South Salina Street
Syracuse, NY 13202

Guernsey Public Library
3 Court Street
Norwich, NY 13815

Morrisville Public Library
87 East Main Street
Morrisville, NY 13408

Cortland Free Library
32 Church Street
Cortland, NY 13045

Tompkins County Public Library
101 East Green Street
Ithaca, NY 14850

Oswego Public Library
34 East Bridge Street
Oswego, NY 13126

Candor Public Library
2 Bank Street, P.O. Box 104
Candor, NY 13743

Seymour Public Library
176-178 Genesee Street
Auburn, NY 13021

Coburn Free Library
275 Main Street
Owego, NY 13827

Cazenovia Public Library
100 Albany Street
Cazenovia, NY 13035

Locations in NYS DEC Region 8

NYS DEC Region 8 Headquarters
6274 East Avon-Lima Road
Avon, NY 14414-9519
Contact: Linda Vera
Phone: (585) 226-5324

NYS DEC Region 8, Bath Sub-Office
7291 Coon Road
Bath, NY 14810
Contact: Phil Faber
Phone: (607) 776-2165

NYS DEC Region 8, Horseheads Sub-Office
276 Sing Sing Road, Suite 1
Horseheads, NY 14845
Contact: Joe Yarosz
Phone: (607) 739-0809

Steele Memorial Library
101 East Church Street
Elmira, NY 14901

Watkins Glen Library
610 South Decatur Street
Watkins Glen, NY 14891

Dormann Library
101 West Morris Street
Bath, NY 14810

Locations in NYS DEC Region 9

NYS DEC Region 9, Allegany Sub-Office
182 East Union Street
Allegany, NY 14706
Contact: Christopher Miller
Phone: (716) 372-0645

Olean Public Library
134 North Second Street
Olean, NY 14760

Erie County Public Library
1 Lafayette Square
Buffalo, NY 14203

Lockport Public Library
23 East Avenue
Lockport, NY 14095-0475

Mary E. Seymour Library
22 North Main Street
Stockton, NY 14784

Ellicottville Memorial Library
6499 Maples Road
Ellicottville, NY 14731

Warsaw Public Library
130 N Main Street
Warsaw, NY 14569

Belmont Literary and Historical Society Free Library
2 Willets Avenue
Belmont, NY 14813
 
It doesn't matter whether the river is flowing at 5 cfs or 2000 cfs -- any water from our precious Catskill Rivers -- clean, cold, TROUT WATER, mind you! -- that will be hauled away, fouled with chemicals, and belched into the ground to wind up God-knows-where is beyond wrong.

The companies that are trying to ram this down our throats ought to be ashamed of themselves. The DEC must do its job and protect this Class I trout river, which is a public resource -- not a private reservoir for a few Fortune 500 companies.

NO DRILLING IN THE DELAWARE WATERSHED!!!!

NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!!

Haven't we heard for years that EB water is NOT cold? Maybe if they draw off enough warm summer water, the Main Stem would benefit. :rolleyes:

You guys should be pushing NYS DEC to require "closed-loop" systems for Frac'ing. Saves a bunch of headaches... NO open pits to leak or be swamped by flooding, reusing most of the water... Think closed-loop systems, boys.

EARTHWORKS - Alternatives to Pits
 
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Haven't we heard for years that EB water is NOT cold? Maybe if they draw off enough warm summer water, the Main Stem would benefit. :rolleyes:

You guys should be pushing NYS DEC to require "closed-loop" systems for Frac'ing. Saves a bunch of headaches... NO open pits to leak or be swamped by flooding, reusing most of the water... Think closed-loop systems, boys.

EARTHWORKS - Alternatives to Pits

Trouble is that closed loop facing has yet to be perfected. The gas companies know that is the way to move, but they simply are not there yet. Even closed loop systems still have to deal at some point with the poisons that come back out of the ground.
 
OK read most of the document.

Here are some questions to think about. Eventually I will submit them as written comments. They do add alot of stuff to the water taken for the Hydraulic Frac process. They appear to recover the water from the drilling site in tanks or pits and then send on to waste water treatment (which means it's got problems with it!)

What is the maximum rate of water (e.g. CFS) they will take from the river? Over what period of time?

How much of the water or fluid used is recoverd from the process? What happens to the rest of it that is not recovered (into the ground water around the site?)? Does any water escape the site over or under ground and head back to the river?

Exactly what are the chemicals and ingrediants they add to the water? For this particular sight? What damage could they do to the system if they leak back into the Delaware?

Are they planning closed tanks or open pits for this particular site?

What happens if there is an accidential leak of the recovered water? What provisions are being made to avoid this? Who will monitor the site for "leakage?" What is this companies history at other established sites?

Just a couple of mroe specific questions that come to mind!
 
The real environmental concern is what happens to the 700,000 gallons that comes back out after the frac is completed.
Jim

From my limited understanding of this drilling process that fracking water is considered wastewater and is contained in either lined ponds or tankers and must be treated before ever being put back into the watershed. I guess what needs to be answered is whether or not there are treatment plants up there that can or will handle it?
 
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With a closed loop system, there are not 700,000 gallons to dispose of.

Supposedly, there is a treatment site in PA that will treat "Frac" water. Life is going to get busy for that guy...
 
What do you mean by "perfected"? Can you give an example of how the imperfection might damage the D?

By not being able to extract 100% of the water pumped in and treat it (or re-use it multiple times), the excess fluid would then leak into ground water causing problems not only for the Delaware fisheries, but anyone who has a well nearby.
 
By not being able to extract 100% of the water pumped in and treat it (or re-use it multiple times), the excess fluid would then leak into ground water causing problems not only for the Delaware fisheries, but anyone who has a well nearby.

Most water wells are in the range of a couple of hundred feet below ground level. These Marcellus shale wells are on the order of 3000-7000 feet down, well below where anyone would be drawing groundwater.

Also, the well bore is lined with a casing and cement. The frac'ing fluid never touches ground water, or ground, for that matter, unless it's thousands of feet down, in the impermeable layer it's meant to break up.

The real problem, as I see it is when this fluid is brought back to the surface. If placed in a lined pit, well, all sorts of negative things could happen. But if the fluid is "cleaned up" in a closed loop system, most of the water could be trucked back off site, to the next well. Then the concentrated waste could then be dealt with appropriately, either REALLY cleaned or treated as a hazardous waste and disposed of as such.
 
And Rusty,I should have said it in the last post, you wrote "Trouble is that closed loop facing has yet to be perfected" when I suggested using them. And you clarified what you meant by stating "By not being able to extract 100% of the water pumped in and treat it (or re-use it multiple times)..."

Open pits or closed loop systems, 100% of the fluid will not be recovered. BUTwith a closed loop system, most of the water can be reused, thus, the amount of ground or surface water that will be pulled for use by the gas drilling companies can be greatly reduced. This way, a "giant straw" will not be needed to suck up East Branch water.
 
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Most water wells are in the range of a couple of hundred feet below ground level. These Marcellus shale wells are on the order of 3000-7000 feet down, well below where anyone would be drawing groundwater.

Also, the well bore is lined with a casing and cement. The frac'ing fluid never touches ground water, or ground, for that matter, unless it's thousands of feet down, in the impermeable layer it's meant to break up.

The real problem, as I see it is when this fluid is brought back to the surface. If placed in a lined pit, well, all sorts of negative things could happen. But if the fluid is "cleaned up" in a closed loop system, most of the water could be trucked back off site, to the next well. Then the concentrated waste could then be dealt with appropriately, either REALLY cleaned or treated as a hazardous waste and disposed of as such.

Actually, the gas layers are much deeper than 3-7,000 feet, but why split hairs? The idea that we can send thousands of gallons through a hole in the earth, whether lined or not, and expect to get it all back is arrogant at best. Where the lost waste water will wind up is still the topic of conjecture. As you mentioned, we all know what problems surface ponds can create, just come over to the Musconetcong and I'll show anyone interested several that are now a federal Superfund site.

IMO, there needs to be a lot of additional studies before we see drilling of the scale that is being planned. By the way, I'm all for energy extraction - we need that gas - but we first need to ensure that we are doing so in an environmentally safe way. And we're not there yet.
 
It's great to see a healthy, respectful conversation here. Those about to decide on this -- who may not have thought about all of these points -- need to hear from you at the public hearing or in writing. If enough people speak out, we can stop this or at least make sure that if and when this happens it will be done in a way that does not harm our waterways, fisheries, health, etc. These are private companies -- not the unmoving monolith that is New York City. IF ENOUGH OF US SHOW UP AND SPEAK OUT, WE CAN STOP THIS...

NO DRILLING IN THE DELAWARE WATERSHED

NOT ONE DROP...NOT ONE DROP...NOT ONE DROP
 
I don't mind splitting hairs ;) I enjoy correct information. Could you point me to where I could find this?

John,

There was another thread on NEFF recently just about this with lots of great info. Some of this I know from reading news reports, some from my boss at TU (who is working hard on funding to hire someone just on this issue), some from talking to the companies involved after they contacted our hunting camp for a lease, and some from reading links on the other thread. I in no way consider myself an expert, but I am getting educated as many of us here are. I'm not good at posting links to other threads, but you'll find it here I'm sure.
 
I agree with Eelweir, I haved learned a lot from this thread and appreciate all of the good information. Thanks!
 
John,

There was another thread on NEFF recently just about this with lots of great info. Some of this I know from reading news reports, some from my boss at TU (who is working hard on funding to hire someone just on this issue), some from talking to the companies involved after they contacted our hunting camp for a lease, and some from reading links on the other thread. I in no way consider myself an expert, but I am getting educated as many of us here are. I'm not good at posting links to other threads, but you'll find it here I'm sure.

Well, take it from me...

The Marcellus Shale goes from being at the surface at its northern terminus in NY down to over 9000 feet in South Central PA. In the region we are all concerned about, the NY/PA border/Western Catskills, the depth of the Marcellus is between 3000 and MAYBE 8000 feet down, it being anywhere from 150 to 350 feet thick.

AND don't believe a thing the gas companies tell you ;)
 
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Come to the hearing and make them in person. If you can't come, write 'em down and mail 'em in. Scroll down to see lots of info on on the upcoming public hearings and how to comment -- both in writing and in person

The DEC must do its job and protect this Class I trout river, which is a public resource -- not a private reservoir for a few Fortune 500 companies.

NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!! NOT ONE DROP!!!

Eelweir, you do realize that the DEC has "washed their hands" of deciding who gets water and who doesn't, don't ya? You can complain to them all you want about not giving the evil gas companies water, but they've got little to say about it.

"The Susquehanna River Basin Commission (SRBC) and the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) regulate the rate and volume of water withdrawals within their respective basins. These regional water authorities must review and approve water used for hydraulic fracturing projects in the Marcellus Shale. DEC has representatives on both Commissions and also regularly communicates with the New York City Department of Environmental Protection regarding the city's upstate water reservoirs."

I got this from:
Marcellus Shale - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation
 
Excellent point!!! --which is why you should also write to the four governors who oversee the Delaware River Basin Commission which has final oversite over the watershed. Here are all of their addresses and a sample letter, written by a fishing buddy:

New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine
State House
Trenton, NJ 08625
Fax:(609)292-5212
Tel:(609)292-6000
web: http:/www.state.nj.us/governor

New York Governor David Paterson
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224
Fax:(518)474-3767
Tel:(518)474-8390
email: gov.pataki@chamber.state.ny.us
web: www.ny.gov/governor

Delaware Governor Ruth Ann Minner
Legislative Hall
Dover, DE 19901
Fax:(302)577-3118
Tel:(302)577-3210 11/00
email: gminner@state.de.us
web: State of Delaware - Governor Ruth Ann Minner's Home Page

Pennsylvania Governor Edward Rendell
225 Main Capitol Bldg.
Harrisburg, PA 17120
Fax:(717)783-4429
Tel:(717)787-2500
email: governor@state.pa.us
web: PA PowerPort

November 12, 2008

Governor Edward G Rendell
225 Main Capitol Building
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17120

Re: Caution on gas drilling

Dear Governor Rendell,

I write to ask you to contact the DRBC to request that their authority over the natural gas interests be used to protect the Delaware River basin from contamination resulting from gas wells. I am certain you are aware there is rush to drill in the Marcellus Shale that nearly surrounds the upper Delaware watershed. This area is the source of drinking water for New York City and a significant portion of Eastern PA. Millions of people rely on this resource.

If it is fouled so that a few can profit, we all suffer. No doubt the public will again be asked to bear the burden of huge clean up costs. The gas extraction industry has damaged entire aquifers, streams, rivers and wildlife with its operations in many parts of the country, and can be expected to imperil our river valley. In the first place, one well requires enormous amounts of fresh water - estimates run at about a hundred thousand gallons per day per well. Where will this volume of water come from? The Delaware River already runs dangerously low in periods of light rainfall, and in fact regularly warms to the point of killing fish and other aquatic life in the summer.

Regulations require toxic water resulting from gas extraction to be treated prior to release into the environment. The treatment plants in proximity all lack BOTH capacity and the necessary technology to handle with the bi-product of drilling. How can the gas industry comply with the regulations requiring proper treatment when the facilities don't exist, are too far away, or are grossly inadequate?

One method the industry uses to avoid this vital issue of responsible treatment is to dig above ground holding impoundments to store the tainted water. In other states where the industry has operated, disastrous conditions have resulted. The unsightly impoundments have allowed the toxic waste water to seep into the surrounding ground water, resulting in the contamination of both municipal and private wells. Numerous reports document other environmental damage caused by the above process. Why in the world would this method of extraction ever be permitted? Money is the answer to that question. But what will be the eventual cost to the public?

The soon to be past administration in Washington did not consider the ultimate cost, and permitted gas companies to proceed without any requirements to make public the kinds and numbers of chemicals used in drilling - hard to believe but sadly so!

I most emphatically urge you to use your influence and power to protect the public. Government must oversee this notoriously irresponsible industry. At the very least, the gas industry should be forced to demonstrate its willingness and ability to operate within the confines of the regulation with a small number of demonstration wells, prior to issuing additional permits.

At the very least, the government should prevent drilling from taking place in a wide corridor along the ultra-sensitive Delaware River Valley, until the industry has demonstrated a history of responsible operation in the region? Even if the industry can demonstrate good corporate citizenship by way of an acceptable track record, should it not be forced to postpone drilling in this long designated "wild and scenic" valley until such time as there is nowhere else to exploit? The gas rigs are enormous, hideous, and generate air, noise, light and sound pollution. The towering drilling rigs are powered by huge diesel engines that emit damaging particulate matter, toxic foul smelling fumes, exhaust noise in abundance and worse yet, they are festooned with bright lights that shine through the night sky.

Sincerely yours,


NO DRILLING IN THE DELAWARE WATERSHED

NOT ONE DROP...NOTONE DROP...NOT ONE DROP
 
Closed-loop systems are for drilling not fracing. CHK has already told the town that all production water will be contained and hauled away to reprocessing facilities, no pits.

The DRBC is requiring all gas companies to submit the chemicals they will use in the fracing process.

There is currently alot of confusion on who has what power to regulate the drilling.
 
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