Delware River, NY.

[dcabarle]

Admittedly, I've only been fishing the Delaware River System for 3-4 years. I believe NJFred is the one who initiallly got me hooked, Thanks Fred! I fished it a handfull of times in the past with my father but it never really intrigued me until just a few years ago. I must have been nuts to not have instantly fallen in love with the D. Don't get me wrong, I love the Beaverkill too, but the D is my 'new' True love. Anything wrong with this? Yeah, I know... Blasphemy again, right Future Fanatic!!!

Floating or wading the West Branch or the Mainstem makes me feel so good. Good to be alive, good to be fishing, good for everything. I'm so relaxed when I can get out there and fish to rising wild trout and simply get away from it all. I'm looking so forward to my first cast on the D this season which may very well be this coming weekend! I'll be in the area picking up a few things from some of the shops and if the water is fishable, I'll toss a line for few hours. If not, I'll take a ride to the Beaverkill on my way home.

Over the past few years with the help of a few new friends, Locals from the areas I fish who pass through this site, and through self experiences, I've learned quite a bit about the river and some of its surroundings. I'm by far a Tony Ritter, Jerry Hadden, Joe Tutino (JoeT), Paul Weamer, Al Caucci, or Jim Serio when it comes to the knowledge of such a great river system but, I do have some knowledge that I've picked up along the way and I occasionally post about it on the board for all of you to read; of course unless I'm asked not to post it.

There's just so much to learn about our fishing environment. I'd love to learn more and help out more but I'm like many of you, we're either too far to help and not necessarily too far because it's a 2hr drive or even more for many of you, but too far because we have kids, pets, wives, and get this one... some of us even have jobs... and some of us have wives with full or part time jobs which makes assisting anything other than monitarily, virtually impossible. I assist by placing banners on this site and encourage anyone who fishes the system to click on them and learn a little bit about what you can do to help if of course you have the time and are willing to put in the effort. For some of these folks, it's a full time job after their full time Jobs! Long meetings I'm sure and a lot of political BS to deal with. A round of applause for both Orgs please!

I recently posted a message on this site asking for someone to draw up a letter and I'd put a petition together. Then once enough people read and signed the petition, I offered to mail it out.

Tonight I received an Email from one of the DRF board members telling me that by my posting of that message... Awe hell, read it yourself:

Its like when you said write letters to congressman about the flows. Again with out any real knowledge of the situation you take it upon yourself to try and do something. Its nice for trying but you undermine years of work.

We not only have written letters to congressman but we have met with two in person last summer and floated them down the D.Trust me Dennis if we need letters we will ask for them or so will the FUDR BOYS So again leave the flows to the drf and fudr since we all know just a tad bit more with regards to the situation.

Wait a minute... Did this DRF board member just tell me that I have undermined years of work because I asked someone to write a letter and I would try to get people to sign it and send it in? But wait a second... Posted on the DRF's home page, it specifically says, "Compose your own letter to the people on this list, to voice your opinions." Well, I don't get it... This member contacts me and says, "Trust me Dennis if we need letters we will ask for them." Well, you did ask for them and you provide a link on your website with an entire Contact list of peoples names such as Gov. Pataki and other politicians, address's, phone numbers, and even email address's. More disturbing stuff was said in the letter sent to me by a person on the DRF's board. Maybe I'll post it tomorrow for everyone.

DRF, I really do appreciate your efforts, but I think one of your board members may be relaying the wrong message to some of your supporters with Emails like that. If we're not supposed to write letters, you might consider pulling that page off of your site. Also, I will only deal with the Chairman of the Board or its most senior board members for now on. I don't bite, you can call me anytime to chat or we can keep in touch via Email.

In the meantime while I'm 'not helping', I try to do what's right and loan my support to both of the organizations looking to maintain steady flows on this great river system. Please take notice of the DRF banner and the all new FUDR banner on the top of this site's page. Also take a look at the Tim Zietak banner. Tim Zietak is a current site sponsor and has donated quite a bit monetarily to this site to have the banner displayed within the rotation here.

The DRF and FUDR banners when clicked on, will take you to their web sites. Please take the time out to read what each organization is about, then if you're interested jump on the band wagon and join one of them. If you choose not to, that's ok too. It's a free country and you'll never hear me say something like, "Well I do this that and the other thing... WHAT DO YOU DO??????" Yeah, the DRF Board member unfortunately also asked me what I do! Just as a reference, the DRF banner on this site has over 400 clicks. I shouldn't have to explain what I do but I will say this, I spread the word to approximately 400 potential supporters of the DRF. It's up to them if they want to sign up or not. Before asking what someone does, think about it then don't ask... Chances are you'll look like a fool and wind up placing your foot in your mouth, not to mention, it's probably non of your business what other people do!

Thanks for reading this. By the way, I will post that Email tomorrow sometime.

Dennis

 

[Andre]

Dennis,

First let me say you have nothing to defend. Your level of committment to change is yours and it it is up to no one else to judge it. We all do what we can in different ways or do nothing which is also acceptable. I spent years in public service and that was my way of giving back. I had time, kid was grown up, but more importantly it was something I wanted to do. I did not feel everyone else needed to do it.

You provide a public voice where people can speak out and become aware of issues and get involved if they choose to. That level of importance to the needs of fisherman can not be minimalized.

The email does sound incongruent with the goals of the DRF. If it were me I probably wouldn't post it here because it was not meant for public view. You decide. What I would do if it was written representing the DRF as you say, is send a copy to them and ask if this letter is consistent with their policy and await a response.

Again, the choices are yours, but it pains me to see you question your contribution when there is no need to.

BTW, I know I'm crazy but I'm on my way out the door to fish the olive hatch. Let you know how I did when I get back. Appreciate all your efforts.

 

[bjmiller]

Dennis,

If I were you (which I'm not), I would not post any private email on this site. Because someone is on the DRF board doesn't mean that any private email that he or she sends out, represents the board. Also, as has happened numerous time on this site, emails and posts frequently get taken out of context and negative tone may get perceived that doesn't exist. Phone calls and face-to-face talk leave less to the imagination.

This site is a great way to provide fishing info to the interested and I commend you for providing that!!!

Bruce

 

[Michael M]

Dennis

If I were in your position I would not post this private message unless it was intended for public information.

I would not give even one seconds thought to questioning your support of the Delaware system. We have never met but from just your own posts on this site it is crystal clear where you stand.

I've written letters myself and I agree with you about it being confusing, if that is not wanted it should be stated. I would think that if writing letters was counter porductive at this time then the DRF should (or would) have advised that fact, if not on the DRF site, then in a membership notice. I've been a member since the inception of the DRF and I have never read anything advising not to be proactive. I certainly would not want to do anything to subvert the best intentions of everyone actively working to protect this fragile system.

Since you do have a public pressence by owning this site I think you would be right to contact the DRF officially (though privately) and ask if the letter you received is an official position.

Just my $.02.

Michael

 

[dcabarle]

Guys... I'm sorry to have put some of that load on you, but after receiving numerous Emails from a former member of this site, telling me that I've screwed everyone in the region because of my posts... well, I thought I would share it with eveyrone. This individuals bitterness has gotten the best of him... He's already threatened to sue me and in the same breathe tells me to 'Grow up.' In another email he says that only less than 1% of all NY Flyfishermen visit this site... Maybe he's right, I'm not sure where he got his numbers from, but my conern with that is, Why is he so worried about what is posted here then?

I look to this site for a type of solace during both the off and on seasons and don't look forward to receiving Emails from anyone (member or former member) telling me that I've ruined it for all.

Anyway, sorry about that, just had to get it off my chest.

I thank all of you for your support.

 

[willowhead]

Dennis, just let it be water off a ducks back man. You do a good job and nobody has any right to dog you Bro. I'd sure like to know who's bugging you??????? I highly doubt it's anyone from the DRF board. Probably a wise ass trying to come off as a board member who actually isn't, just trying to stir up trouble. That's my guess. mark........

 

[Future Fanatic]

Dennis, I enjoy the West and the East Branches more too. You're not a heretic in my book with that choice! I'm not a big fan of the Main stem just yet. Mulrichs has shown me some beautiful trout water on both branches. NJFred told me as I just started to flyfish the West Branch that I should stick with it, keep trying and in a year or two I would catch fish. Well, that intrigued me! Luckily for me, NJFred's prediction, fell by the wayside much sooner than he expected. But, my appreciation for the tough fish on the West Branch will keep me going back.

As for the unfortunate turn of events you've experienced, it's too bad. It does seem a bit odd to denounce you for wanting to write letters when they supply a link to do just that. I also can't understand someone attacking (if that is what was done)your efforts to bring awareness of the issues to those that are directly involved with the outcome of any decision that might or might not be made about these rivers. I would venture a guess that 99% of the people who visit and contribute to this site (in one form or another) understand that you have had a positive affect in that regard. If I were you, I wouldn't sweat it until the day these organizations ask you to take down the banner ads. I think that day will never come, because the organizations, if not an individual, understand the value of your contribution and support.
John

 

[dcabarle]

Re: test html

Another oldy... Remember the DRF vs. FUDR days! What the hell happened to all these people.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Re: test html

Another oldy... Remember the DRF vs. FUDR days! What the hell happened to all these people.

You need to toss TU into that mix. It was all out war at times trying to get us all on the same page (where we're more or less at now)

 

[dcabarle]

Re: test html

You need to toss TU into that mix. It was all out war at times trying to get us all on the same page (where we're more or less at now)

Agreed! Just need to know 1 thing... Where the hell is the H2o today!?!?!?!?!?! under 400cfs on the WB for over a week now.

 

[GARYB]

Re: test html

Good old post. What's up with the flow, I thought it was 600 cfs minimum............................unless NYC wants to cut it down ??

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Re: test html

We must be in L2, but I no longer know all the flow stuff as I once did before joining TU staff. L1 flows would be higher than current flows as I recall.

 

[pitbull]

Re: test html

from what i understand when cannonsville gets below 80% the west br release is cut back and the montague mark of 2000cfs mostly comes from the lackawaxon..hale eddy was 64 degrees last week..

 

[GARYB]

Re: test html

Just read flow will stay as is until August 30th unless they get a lot more rain. Well good for the waders, bad for the fish and the floaters.

 

[flyI4]

Re: test html

yeah this flow just doesn't cut it this time of year, and although cannonsville is below 80% overall capacity for the system is around 85% and we're almost through summer. I'm really starting to doubt this flow plan, it allows for piss stream level flows early season when the res is anything but spilling to 95% and leaves flows at a still very low flow of 300-400 cfs all the way through late spring. Is this flow plan really worth having a month and a half of 500cfs where people are happy during the early summer? I know the yo-yo flows were harmful for fish and bug life, however if this is what we are going to get out of this plan during the warmest month of the year, screw it I'd rather go back to yo yo flows where you could get 1500 cfs during the summer and enjoy some streamer fishing, brief windows of fishable temps on the mainstem and periods of time when the waders couldnt wade the river and floating really came into its own.

Signed-----another delaware river angler pissing and moaning about river management.(for the record I do not blame those anglers and advocates involved that put this plan in place, its always been a bitch of a fight and I thank everyone involved for putting in as much time as they do)

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Re: test html

My take on the flow plans is that we need to keep making steady, albeit slow, progress. After all, we're literally fighting city hall and it's the biggest city in the nation. So we may never get what we want, but through science we can keep creeping up the flows as we convince NY that its citizens are in no danger of running out of water anytime soon. Especially since their usage consumption has fallen most of the last couple of decades...

Here we are at a borderline drought yet the reservoirs are averaging 85% of capacity. Clearly there is more water available for aquatic habitat health.

 

[Kilgour Farms]

Re: test html

I've been in the minority and have advocated scraping the FFMP and starting over. Many have said it would play havick on the system by reverting it back to the orginial flow releases but my thoughts are that scraping it would encourage the parties to fix it the way they should and put pressure on them to do it right and in a timely manner rather then trying to fix something that has proven to be unworkable to begin with and will not work no matter what they do, JMO!

The FFMP is damaging the ecology of the river whether some admit it or not and tweeking it will not help, we need a new plan!!

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Re: test html

I've been in the minority and have advocated scraping the FFMP and starting over. Many have said it would play havick on the system by reverting it back to the orginial flow releases but my thoughts are that scraping it would encourage the parties to fix it the way they should and put pressure on them to do it right and in a timely manner rather then trying to fix something that has proven to be unworkable to begin with and will not work no matter what they do, JMO!

The FFMP is damaging the ecology of the river whether some admit it or not and tweeking it will not help, we need a new plan!!

Sounds great, sign me up....

The only problem with your statement is that it makes sense. NY City doesn't care one bit about what makes sense for the trout or the river downstream of their reservoirs. They care about one thing and one thing only: if the drought of record were to begin today, will they have enough water to supply the needs of 9 million+ in the greatest city on Earth? Without convincing them through science and steady progress on flows, we'll never blow up FFMP and suddenly come up with some great flow plan that we can all agree on. As many flaws as FFMP has, it is, in fact, flexible and has been modified and can be again and again until we get closer to what we can agree are good flows for habitat that won't threaten the city's drinking water needs.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Re: test html

if the drought of record were to begin today, will they have enough water to supply the needs of 9 million+ in the greatest city on Earth?

Warwick? ...or was it the dark dirt place… or the mulch mountain town… I’m confused…

 

[Kilgour Farms]

Re: test html

What irks me the most we can be in drought conditions and have all kinds of water use restrictions as well as flow restrictions up here yet the folks down in the city can use the water as they see fit including opening up hydrants to cool the kids off on those hot summer days rather then conserving it.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Re: test html

What irks me the most we can be in drought conditions and have all kinds of water use restrictions as well as flow restrictions up here yet the folks down in the city can use the water as they see fit including opening up hydrants to cool the kids off on those hot summer days rather then conserving it.

In part because there are no water meters in NYC, you just pay a flat rate. Pay the going rate for your actual usage and many customers would surely conserve water. Bostonians use something like 1/3 of the water that NY City people use because they have metered usage.