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Conservation and water rights

No we should not be thanking NYC.

If you really took the time to understand how much water is available you would realize that there is enough water to accomplish 3 things.

1.NYC Drinking water

2.Montaque at 1750

3.Enough water for a healthy fishery.


You don't need need a 1000 cfs, in fact you don't need even 500 cfs on the WB


It was proven many years ago "The Shepard Study" that 325 CFS would provide enough water to keep the trout healthy from the top to bottom of the WB.

You need a little more on the EB (maybe 75 cfs) to keep it cool enough to Harvard and the Neversink maybe another 40 cfs.

What you need to understand is that the FFMP only uses the Cannonsville,Pepacton and the Neversink as Total Storage.


They are not taking into account the 4 other reservoirs.

1.Schoharie
2.Ashokan
3.Rondout
4.Croton

These 4 are accounted in there equation for drinking purposes but not the FFMP.

That's roughly 260 Billion Gallons of additional water they have.


You also now have

1.Lake Wallenpaupack
2.Rio

To take care of Montaque, which wasn't the case 7/8 years ago.

So in other words there is plenty of water in the entire system to achieve all 3 goals.

If you told me we're going to 325 cfs from May through August I'd throw the party.

I don't think everyone would agree with the lower number but it would work for the fishery.

However you do need thermal protection down to Buck.Forget Calicoon,Hankins, and Lordville.

That has to be in place..It never should get above 72 down to Buck.

You could pulse water from Midnight to Noon the next day at 1000.It would bring the temps down low enough where you probably could go every other day until the heat wave subsides..The 1000 is just an educated guess it could be less.

To reiterate this thermal protection is not a consistent release.

Just some ideas, but I really think if your going to express your opinions you need to be educated on the subject as some of us "complainers" are.


I suggest some of you need to actually read my post.For some odd reason JC and a few others have distorted what I actually wrote.

I never proposed a 1000 CFS on the WB.

You need to look at the big picture, and negotiate from a position that there is much more water than suggested in FFMP.

Negotiating is a give and take, all I've seen over the many years is the fishery giving and NYC taking more and more.

One more thing unless you actually have a Viable Business plan on how you will achieve your goals and objectives you haven't a chance.

I would ask anyone here do you know of any plans you could show me?

JC Do you have one from FUDR that you could share with the Group?

The Business plan should include how you will fund the lobbyist we need,the research that needs to be done on the rivers, and possibly a professional team of Consultants that know how to Broker deals at high levels such as these.

How someone will get National TU on board with both feet.

One bugs are parties, I've yet to see any plan whatsoever come out of one yet.A lot talk, a lot of smoke and mirrors, but for some of the astute ones that have been around we know better.


SHOW ME THE MONEY


****The Lobbyist idea is Dennis Watson's BTW ,he could help with that part.
 
I suggest some of you need to actually read my post.For some odd reason JC and a few others have distorted what I actually wrote.

I never proposed a 1000 CFS on the WB.

You need to look at the big picture, and negotiate from a position that there is much more water than suggested in FFMP.

Negotiating is a give and take, all I've seen over the many years is the fishery giving and NYC taking more and more.


One more thing unless you actually have a Viable Business plan on how you will achieve your goals and objectives you haven't a chance.

I would ask anyone here do you know of any plans you could show me?

JC Do you have one from FUDR that you could share with the Group?

The Business plan should include how you will fund the lobbyist we need,the research that needs to be done on the rivers, and possibly a professional team of Consultants that know how to Broker deals at high levels such as these.

How someone will get National TU on board with both feet.

One bugs are parties, I've yet to see any plan whatsoever come out of one yet.A lot talk, a lot of smoke and mirrors, but for some of the astute ones that have been around we know better.


SHOW ME THE MONEY


****The Lobbyist idea is Dennis Watson's BTW ,he could help with that part.

Joe NYC has spent hundreds of millions on the system. How much did the proponents of the fishery invest into the system?
 
I suggest some of you need to actually read my post.For some odd reason JC and a few others have distorted what I actually wrote.

I never proposed a 1000 CFS on the WB.

You need to look at the big picture, and negotiate from a position that there is much more water than suggested in FFMP.

Negotiating is a give and take, all I've seen over the many years is the fishery giving and NYC taking more and more.

One more thing unless you actually have a Viable Business plan on how you will achieve your goals and objectives you haven't a chance.

I would ask anyone here do you know of any plans you could show me?

JC Do you have one from FUDR that you could share with the Group?

The Business plan should include how you will fund the lobbyist we need,the research that needs to be done on the rivers, and possibly a professional team of Consultants that know how to Broker deals at high levels such as these.

How someone will get National TU on board with both feet.

One bugs are parties, I've yet to see any plan whatsoever come out of one yet.A lot talk, a lot of smoke and mirrors, but for some of the astute ones that have been around we know better.


SHOW ME THE MONEY


****The Lobbyist idea is Dennis Watson's BTW ,he could help with that part.

Just so you know Dan Plummer was recently added to the board of trustees of TU National so I would expect there to be a little more synergy with FUDR moving forward.

Board of Trustees - Trout Unlimited | Trout Unlimited - Conserving coldwater fisheries
 
Just so you know Dan Plummer was recently added to the board of trustees of TU National so I would expect there to be a little more synergy with FUDR moving forward.

Board of Trustees - Trout Unlimited | Trout Unlimited - Conserving coldwater fisheries

If that's the case that is great.National TU has the Political contacts as well as the Deep Pockets, well much deeper than FUDR.i really believe without them in with both feet working together with FUDR things will continue to be difficult in getting things done..

It comes down to Funding.

Thanks.
 
Joe NYC has spent hundreds of millions on the system. How much did the proponents of the fishery invest into the system?

Please explain what that has to do with the price of tea in China?

Your view like most is very Myopic.

Why don't you go the the FUDR meeting Sunday and try and educate yourself on the topic.
 
Please explain what that has to do with the price of tea in China?

Your view like most is very Myopic.

Why don't you go the the FUDR meeting Sunday and try and educate yourself on the topic.


What do you mean money has nothing to do with it. The system was engendered and developed; all the monetary expenditures were committed for the system to supply NYC with drinking water. I do not see any of the demanders as stake holders. I can sympathize with the argument but the fact is not one party that is making a demand has not committed any monetary risks into the project or for its maintenance.

The truth is and Dluver stated it eloquently, it started out to be sense of gratitude for the system then it became an expectation now it is a feeling of entitlement. Now if the parties that are demanding the resource had a monetary stake in the system, there would be a legitimate argument. The system would deemed not only be a reserve of drinking water but also a stainable cold water fisher. .

Ask yourself this Joe or anyone else who believes they are entitled. Will you stand up in front of the cameras and explain why a cold water fishery was more important to maintain then the drinking supply for millions individuals when and if the supply becomes critical. Will you take partial responsibility for it? As it stands now only the managers of the system are in that position.
 
What do you mean money has nothing to do with it. The system was engendered and developed; all the monetary expenditures were committed for the system to supply NYC with drinking water. I do not see any of the demanders as stake holders. I can sympathize with the argument but the fact is not one party that is making a demand has not committed any monetary risks into the project or for its maintenance.

The truth is and Dluver stated it eloquently, it started out to be sense of gratitude for the system then it became an expectation now it is a feeling of entitlement. Now if the parties that are demanding the resource had a monetary stake in the system, there would be a legitimate argument. The system would deemed not only be a reserve of drinking water but also a stainable cold water fisher. .

Ask yourself this Joe or anyone else who believes they are entitled. Will you stand up in front of the cameras and explain why a cold water fishery was more important to maintain then the drinking supply for millions individuals when and if the supply becomes critical. Will you take partial responsibility for it? As it stands now only the managers of the system are in that position.

Sure Funding has everything to do with it right now.Without it the FUDR cannot accomplish their objectives.

I'm not sure what side your on ,the fishery Groups? or the DRBC ?

If the DRBC and NYC looked at it the way you do they wouldn't be negotiating flow plans for more than 40 years now.

Your way way off the reservation on this one..I suggest you do some homework, for starters study what the DRBC is , also very important look at the 1954 Decree.

Nobody feels entitled to anything.

1.The right plan helps the economy up there..(I suggest you look at that study as well) Did you ever here of sales Tax, and property taxes? That benefits NY and PA..

2.Still leaves NYC with plenty of drinking water,

3.Montaque at 1750 is taken care of

You need to look at the big picture.

Have Fun.

Joe.T
 
Sure Funding has everything to do with it right now.Without it the FUDR cannot accomplish their objectives.

I'm not sure what side your on ,the fishery Groups? or the DRBC ?

If the DRBC and NYC looked at it the way you do they wouldn't be negotiating flow plans for more than 40 years now.

Your way way off the reservation on this one..I suggest you do some homework, for starters study what the DRBC is , also very important look at the 1954 Decree.

Nobody feels entitled to anything.

1.The right plan helps the economy up there..(I suggest you look at that study as well) Did you ever here of sales Tax, and property taxes? That benefits NY and PA..

2.Still leaves NYC with plenty of drinking water,

3.Montaque at 1750 is taken care of

You need to look at the big picture.

Have Fun.

Joe.T

I am always on the side of the fishery. With that said I have to look at both sides. You can not make a effective point of contention without understanding the opposing sides views and contingences on any given action for the fishery.
 
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