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Carp are killing me
- Thread starter Andre
- Start date
catskilljohn
Just finished "Land of Little Rivers"!
How about a hand grenade?
Come on Andre,you got more class than that,and dont tell me your using a cane rod on those things!
Come on Andre,you got more class than that,and dont tell me your using a cane rod on those things!
cingras53
Trout,striper and grouse hunter
Andre, if you hook one you are in for a real fight. I guess it's hard to tell what they're feeding on but I would try a crayfish pattern off the bottom. Perhaps they are vegan. Throw a handful of corn kernels out there and then put one kernel on your hook with a little weight,maybe even with a strike indicator. Let me know if it works.
Andre:
Andy B here. Try a pattern that has worked for me. It's called Car Pooling:
Pattern:
Hook: Mustad Curved Nymph Hook Size 10 or 8 80050BR or Simular will do
Thread: Black Danville 6/0
Body: Black Chenille
Ribbing: Grizzly hackle sized around 8 or six. The hackle is tied in at the back of the hook and wrapped forward.
You may weight this fly if you want. Now those Carp all spook no matter what lake or pond or flats your on. The trick is to throw the fly out in thier general facinity and allow the fly to sit for about five minutes. The Carp in NJ from my experience do not go for a lot of movement unless it's a real fly or a Berry dropping from a tree. The fly I described is not pretty but has been affective for me. Give it a try and let me know how you did. One last pattern you might want to also imitate is a milk weed fluff. This has at times moved a carp or two. And last but not least us back home folk when we were between 8 through 10 caught them on home made dough balls. Ah the simple pleasures of youth in a much simpler time.
Andy
Andy B here. Try a pattern that has worked for me. It's called Car Pooling:
Pattern:
Hook: Mustad Curved Nymph Hook Size 10 or 8 80050BR or Simular will do
Thread: Black Danville 6/0
Body: Black Chenille
Ribbing: Grizzly hackle sized around 8 or six. The hackle is tied in at the back of the hook and wrapped forward.
You may weight this fly if you want. Now those Carp all spook no matter what lake or pond or flats your on. The trick is to throw the fly out in thier general facinity and allow the fly to sit for about five minutes. The Carp in NJ from my experience do not go for a lot of movement unless it's a real fly or a Berry dropping from a tree. The fly I described is not pretty but has been affective for me. Give it a try and let me know how you did. One last pattern you might want to also imitate is a milk weed fluff. This has at times moved a carp or two. And last but not least us back home folk when we were between 8 through 10 caught them on home made dough balls. Ah the simple pleasures of youth in a much simpler time.
Andy
Hey Andre,
Carp are more skittish then spring creek browns. Ssshhhh, don't tell anybody, but i normally fish for them on the susqu. I think they call them the fresh water bone fish.
Anyway, Stealth is very important. If they think you're look'n for them, they just sit there and stare at you.
I watch them till they decide to use their nose to look for crawfish (they dig up rocks and look under). Then I cast a beadhead wolly bugger near that area and let it sit. I cast about 3 feet from where they are feeding, then wade below them. Almost like a casting overthem, but not have them run because of the line. And trust me, if you cast over them, it's over.
When they hit the stones or rocks, strip you line towards you and hold on. (I'm sure you know this, but as a side note for others. Let the butt of the rod & reel do all the work. I use a 9wt and been spooled multiple times.)
Along the south branch, when I spot them I get them on san juan worm. But in truth, I rather just let them be. It's about a 30 min fight on my t3 3wt. I don't think it's too good for them or for me for that matter.
As a side note, My first trip with a guide, soak the buggers in fish oil.
here's some site's that have a little info on them too.
Good luck.
http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/articles/current/28/Carp+on+the+fly/
http://www.msu.edu/~connert/carp.htm
http://www.flyfisherman.com/midwest/dwcarp/index2.html
Carp are more skittish then spring creek browns. Ssshhhh, don't tell anybody, but i normally fish for them on the susqu. I think they call them the fresh water bone fish.
Anyway, Stealth is very important. If they think you're look'n for them, they just sit there and stare at you.
I watch them till they decide to use their nose to look for crawfish (they dig up rocks and look under). Then I cast a beadhead wolly bugger near that area and let it sit. I cast about 3 feet from where they are feeding, then wade below them. Almost like a casting overthem, but not have them run because of the line. And trust me, if you cast over them, it's over.
When they hit the stones or rocks, strip you line towards you and hold on. (I'm sure you know this, but as a side note for others. Let the butt of the rod & reel do all the work. I use a 9wt and been spooled multiple times.)
Along the south branch, when I spot them I get them on san juan worm. But in truth, I rather just let them be. It's about a 30 min fight on my t3 3wt. I don't think it's too good for them or for me for that matter.
As a side note, My first trip with a guide, soak the buggers in fish oil.
here's some site's that have a little info on them too.
Good luck.
http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/articles/current/28/Carp+on+the+fly/
http://www.msu.edu/~connert/carp.htm
http://www.flyfisherman.com/midwest/dwcarp/index2.html
catskilljohn
Just finished "Land of Little Rivers"!
Wow,I didnt realize how many guys actually TRIED to catch them. I always considered them bottom feeding garbage fish,similar to hooking a large turd. Call me stuck up,but I just dont see the point. And Andre,you have PRIME smallmouth water right up the road from you in Frenchtown.Carp,whew....
willowhead
~Jedi Dryfly~
It's GOTTA smell. Use some kind of scent. That does the trick. Of course for purist..............well to hell wiff 'em. LOL. Soak it, chuck it, and wait. Wait a half hour if you have to. Then strip...........AH WOOWWWWWWWW!!! mark....btw, there are plenty of them in the Delaware River down near Bushkill, the Water Gap area.
I fish carp and they are tougher than trout! The fly I use most often is a size 10 black wooley bugger with an orange tail, but, I don't think fly selection is a big deal. The carp have to be feeding and leaving a trail in my experience to get them. You must sneak up on them more stealthily than any trout, and the cast has to be perfect (if you cast too far and the fly heads towards a carp they will spook). Let the fly sink in front of the carp and pull it away when it is a few inches away to look like somethong the carp rooted up is trying to get away. Where I fish (mostly the Whippany River), if you catch one carp in a pool the pool is soured for a week (if that happened on the Beaverkill life would be hard!). The benefit is that once you hook one you will be into your backing in two seconds. In England people get all worked up about carp fishing and they are a real challenge on a fly. Tey are also in a lot of places with no torut. Two oddball experiences I have had are that carp and catfish would rise to dropping mulberries in the Delaware in Pburg ( a purple wooly worm is the ticket) and one day strong wind was blowing ants out of the trees in the Whippany and there was great dry fly fishing with foam ants.
Pete
Trout Hunter
What's the current thinking on carp? Catch & release, or kill on sight?
I have no desire to eat one, but their reputed fighting ability is tempting.
I noticed that in NJ they get the same minimal protection from overfishing as panfish (bag limit = 25). I remember when they were considered totally undesirable in waters inhabited by gamefish. In the 1950s, there was even a rule against using the fry as bait, to prevent accidental introduction.
With the possible exceptions of walking catfish and snakeheads, is there such a thing as a "trash fish"?
I have no desire to eat one, but their reputed fighting ability is tempting.
I noticed that in NJ they get the same minimal protection from overfishing as panfish (bag limit = 25). I remember when they were considered totally undesirable in waters inhabited by gamefish. In the 1950s, there was even a rule against using the fry as bait, to prevent accidental introduction.
With the possible exceptions of walking catfish and snakeheads, is there such a thing as a "trash fish"?
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MNTrout
Yellowstone Cutthroat
read this book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-1057864-2465701?v=glance&s=books
both this and his two pike books are excellent
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-1057864-2465701?v=glance&s=books
both this and his two pike books are excellent
Pete
Trout Hunter
I know the term is no longer politically correct, but it's hard to believe that some people are too young to have ever heard it.Kenny Joe said:
It's been used carelessly and applied to many fish, for various reasons, but in this context..... "An exotic species who's presence is detrimental to the ability of the native species to thrive". Of course this assumes that there are no environmental or other factors preventing the native species from surviving.
For most of my lifetime, carp were considered undesirable, except perhaps in waters that were too polluted for any native species. It was generally accepted that importing them had been a mistake.
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Pete
Trout Hunter
Actually when Browns were first introduced, to US waters, many people did consider them undesirable. After many streams declined and could no longer support brook trout, the attitude changed.
Brookies and Browns appear to be able to coexist in streams like the Battenkill. Considering the limited protection given to carp in NJ, I was wondering if any new findings indicate that they are less harmfull than originally thought.
I really wasn't trying to shock anyone with the term. Merely wondering if releasing a carp, that was taken in waters that support bass and are marginal for trout, is good, bad, or indifferent.
Brookies and Browns appear to be able to coexist in streams like the Battenkill. Considering the limited protection given to carp in NJ, I was wondering if any new findings indicate that they are less harmfull than originally thought.
I really wasn't trying to shock anyone with the term. Merely wondering if releasing a carp, that was taken in waters that support bass and are marginal for trout, is good, bad, or indifferent.
fcch
Salmo salar addict
Pete,
That would be the same for 90 % of the Raindow fisherie in some really neat places (New Zealand for example), King Salmon in the Great lakes drainage, Steelhead East of the Rockies, Browns in South America. The list goes on and on.
As I pointed out above "One man's trash is another man's treasure ". We can take that further too as Today's trash can be tomorrow's treasure (for exactly the same society). Look at Wolves in Yellowstone, THE forest as seen by settlers in the 1700 vs our view today, Eastern mountain lions, ...
Natural resource management and acceptable utilisation/exploitation is a social thing. Hey we used to grind up pacific salmon for fertiliser. What the "public" (in downtown NewYork) WANT, Need and think they need are really different things. I do lots of public consultation in forest resources issues and the PERCEPTION that one has in an un-informed matter is MORE important than reality. (in terms of one who wants get a message/education across the table)
Ideas ???
That would be the same for 90 % of the Raindow fisherie in some really neat places (New Zealand for example), King Salmon in the Great lakes drainage, Steelhead East of the Rockies, Browns in South America. The list goes on and on.
As I pointed out above "One man's trash is another man's treasure ". We can take that further too as Today's trash can be tomorrow's treasure (for exactly the same society). Look at Wolves in Yellowstone, THE forest as seen by settlers in the 1700 vs our view today, Eastern mountain lions, ...
Natural resource management and acceptable utilisation/exploitation is a social thing. Hey we used to grind up pacific salmon for fertiliser. What the "public" (in downtown NewYork) WANT, Need and think they need are really different things. I do lots of public consultation in forest resources issues and the PERCEPTION that one has in an un-informed matter is MORE important than reality. (in terms of one who wants get a message/education across the table)
Ideas ???
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JAD
One summer in my youth, I worked as a lab tech in a research facility. One of the engineers that was my boss was a fisherman, and we fished saltwater together a lot. He happened to be from Taiwan. One day, I happened to mention carp fishing that I did with my friends. His eyes lit up, and he asked what we did with the fish. When I told him we released them, he couldn't believe it. Anyway, I then took him carp fishing with me, and soon after had my first (and only) taste of a cooked carp. Actually very good.
Go to any Chinese fish store, and you will see them for sale.
One summer in my youth, I worked as a lab tech in a research facility. One of the engineers that was my boss was a fisherman, and we fished saltwater together a lot. He happened to be from Taiwan. One day, I happened to mention carp fishing that I did with my friends. His eyes lit up, and he asked what we did with the fish. When I told him we released them, he couldn't believe it. Anyway, I then took him carp fishing with me, and soon after had my first (and only) taste of a cooked carp. Actually very good.
Go to any Chinese fish store, and you will see them for sale.
Pete
Trout Hunter
Hmm...Although no one actually came out and suggested releasing carp, I can sense a resistance to an automatic kill.
I think the January 2004 issue of New Jersey Fish and Wildlife Digest solves the dilemma. Near the end of page 6 and the beginning of page 7 there's a paragraph entitled "Waste of Fish". I assume that "Fish of any species" includes carp.
I guess if you don't have any use for the flesh and there aren't any "meat fishermen" nearby who want them, releasing unharmed is the best policy.
If they exist in fishable numbers, the population is probably established. The efforts of one fisherman aren't going to make much of a difference one way or the other.
I think the January 2004 issue of New Jersey Fish and Wildlife Digest solves the dilemma. Near the end of page 6 and the beginning of page 7 there's a paragraph entitled "Waste of Fish". I assume that "Fish of any species" includes carp.
I guess if you don't have any use for the flesh and there aren't any "meat fishermen" nearby who want them, releasing unharmed is the best policy.
If they exist in fishable numbers, the population is probably established. The efforts of one fisherman aren't going to make much of a difference one way or the other.
Have you caught any carp yet? In my area (Central NJ), carps are not active until Summer. I used a home-made fly that simulated meal worm and was on a 20+ minutes tug-o-war with a carp on my light trout fly rod. I put in my 2 cents on the 'carp on fly?' thread...
Happy 'carp'-ing
Happy 'carp'-ing
fluid
ok
Carp On Fly
I have only had a carp once. It hit a bead head nymph size 16. I had to cast about 2' in front of the mouth of the carp..then strip little strips really slow...The carp wagged its tail and sucked it in. The carp was feeding on bottom.
I have tried about a dozen times at one particular location. This location allows you to see the fish. The water is only 1-2' deep. If you can't sight fish for them it is pretty tuff if they are subsurface. If they are on top then it may be a little easier. I like fooling them with a nymph becuase I think that you are actually fooling them that you have a nymph.
It is tuff though I have made so many cast that they just ignore.
I actually snagged one fishing wooly buggers early season in a pond one time. I did not see it.
As a side note I have caught lots of "Common Golden Shiners" on bead heads too.
These fish only run to about 8"(females)....but I can catch them early season in many local lakes.
I attached some pictures of the "golden shiners".
They are much easier than carp IMO.
Carp are actually the tuffest fish I have tried for.
I have only had a carp once. It hit a bead head nymph size 16. I had to cast about 2' in front of the mouth of the carp..then strip little strips really slow...The carp wagged its tail and sucked it in. The carp was feeding on bottom.
I have tried about a dozen times at one particular location. This location allows you to see the fish. The water is only 1-2' deep. If you can't sight fish for them it is pretty tuff if they are subsurface. If they are on top then it may be a little easier. I like fooling them with a nymph becuase I think that you are actually fooling them that you have a nymph.
It is tuff though I have made so many cast that they just ignore.
I actually snagged one fishing wooly buggers early season in a pond one time. I did not see it.
As a side note I have caught lots of "Common Golden Shiners" on bead heads too.
These fish only run to about 8"(females)....but I can catch them early season in many local lakes.
I attached some pictures of the "golden shiners".
They are much easier than carp IMO.
Carp are actually the tuffest fish I have tried for.
Attachments
flytire
schizophrenia beats being alone
Listen to Ian Collin James on this podcast and then go to hos web site to learn more on carp fishing
He'll talk about a 15 foot level leader.
http://www.flyfishradio.com/2006/01/episode-11-ian-colin-james-brings-some.html
He'll talk about a 15 foot level leader.
http://www.flyfishradio.com/2006/01/episode-11-ian-colin-james-brings-some.html
WTSObsessed
www.wildtroutstreams.com
Andre- I used to fish for Grass Carp on a pond in Princeton...actually got to be pretty good at it. On a good day I'd catch one or two...all 10+ lbs. Also snapped a Sage rod on one, but that's another story. Here are some key tips: You can only catch a carp when it's feeding. Either on the surface ('clooping' is the proper English term...they who invented Carp fishing), or on the bottom (tailing). If they're schooled up, and not moving, forget it. It's a total waste of time. I've had best luck early in the season, using dry flies. Early season (i.e. now through May), they're not too fussy. You want a big bushy dry fly that looks like a leaf (for grass carp, anyway). Sofa Pillow with a green body will do just fine. You'll need a LONG leader, 15' or more, if you can throw it. Carp are very line shy. Look for a solitary carp clooping - if you cast into a group, the problem is that you're bound to spook one, and the one will spook the rest. There's a lot of randomness to the pattern of a carp feeding on the surface...but find one that's feeding regularly, and throw out a cast 20 feet in front of it, in the direction it's headed. If you try anything closer you'll spook it. Then just wait, and hope the carp takes your fly. It's an excruciating 30 seconds or so waiting for the fish to methodically work its way to your fly. Use the time to make sure you've got the drag on your reel set properly, and your line isn't tangled around an guide or anything else. Often he'll give it a miss, or take something right next to it. But there's something incredibly satisfying to see that big mouth close on your dry. If he doesn't take it...wait til he swims past, and try again. If he does take the hook, set it, and get ready for for a long fight. Any fish that size is incredibly strong. Grass carp can be quite annoying, in that they'll let you lead them in, but they freak out when you go to release them, and swim out repeatedly. But it's all great fun on a light rod.
Bluefish94
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
Newbie Question?
I'm new to the carp fishing but I gave it try for the first time this week. Ended up with one small one around four pounds or so. The question I have is, I got maybe a half dozen other fish to take the fly but could not get hooked up. I sharpened the hook, waited a second after they took the fly before setting it and then tried not setting the hook till he or she turned. None of which seemed to make a difference. The fish I did catch I did not see him take the fly do to the mud cloud, one more strip and away we went. If anyone has any ideas to increase the catch ratio I would appreciate the help. Its usually the other way around the fish won't even look at the fly but this is frustrating the want to eat the thing but can't hook them.
Thanks.
I'm new to the carp fishing but I gave it try for the first time this week. Ended up with one small one around four pounds or so. The question I have is, I got maybe a half dozen other fish to take the fly but could not get hooked up. I sharpened the hook, waited a second after they took the fly before setting it and then tried not setting the hook till he or she turned. None of which seemed to make a difference. The fish I did catch I did not see him take the fly do to the mud cloud, one more strip and away we went. If anyone has any ideas to increase the catch ratio I would appreciate the help. Its usually the other way around the fish won't even look at the fly but this is frustrating the want to eat the thing but can't hook them.
Thanks.
On the hooking of carp...
First, get rid of the barbs. They are absolutley worthless. Second, if you are not seeing the take, it will be very difficult. When fishing for carp you must set the situation up to give you every advantage. It is almost impossible to catch a carp if you can not see it.
If anyone has carp they want to catch... I will gladly show you how.
I am not embarrassed to say they are my favorite freshwater fish (in NJ).
Carp fishing with a fly is more hunting than fishing. It is all about stealth approach and very visual. Oh yes, you can not get away with sloppy casting either. These fish are wild, they are well adapted to NOT get caught. When you hook one you will see what I mean about a fish that is not meant to be caught. You are truely deceiving the carp if you are able to catch one.
A tip on the leader: Go as heavy as possible with F-carbon leader. A big carp (Over 20 lbs) will snap 5x like a spiderweb. Mono is a waste of time. You need to be able to control the fish (which you can't with a light tippet). If there is any structure in the water, the carp will undoubtably try to head for it and break you off.
Open water is much better to actually land carp.
First, get rid of the barbs. They are absolutley worthless. Second, if you are not seeing the take, it will be very difficult. When fishing for carp you must set the situation up to give you every advantage. It is almost impossible to catch a carp if you can not see it.
If anyone has carp they want to catch... I will gladly show you how.
I am not embarrassed to say they are my favorite freshwater fish (in NJ).
Carp fishing with a fly is more hunting than fishing. It is all about stealth approach and very visual. Oh yes, you can not get away with sloppy casting either. These fish are wild, they are well adapted to NOT get caught. When you hook one you will see what I mean about a fish that is not meant to be caught. You are truely deceiving the carp if you are able to catch one.
A tip on the leader: Go as heavy as possible with F-carbon leader. A big carp (Over 20 lbs) will snap 5x like a spiderweb. Mono is a waste of time. You need to be able to control the fish (which you can't with a light tippet). If there is any structure in the water, the carp will undoubtably try to head for it and break you off.
Open water is much better to actually land carp.
Fireman202
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
I used to "float fish" with pizza crust or french bread for carp when I was a kid. If it helps at all I know you have to make sure they take the fly first.. sometimes due to cloudy/muddy water conditions you can see the carps lips moving in and out try to grasp the object to eat.
I grew up fishing the tidal section of the passaic river so i know all about carp fishing.. They also frequently take the object in and spit it right back out numberous times..so if you're watching your fish make sure he's not spitting your fly back out as your trying to hook him.
I grew up fishing the tidal section of the passaic river so i know all about carp fishing.. They also frequently take the object in and spit it right back out numberous times..so if you're watching your fish make sure he's not spitting your fly back out as your trying to hook him.
Fireman202
Just finished a River Runs Through it!
also if you can tie a fly in a moleberry pattern that would be great
