cape versus saddle

T

troutmd

too much work not enough fishing
Finally got into fly tying but am not up to my neck, literally in material. Am trying to figure out the best way to go regarding dry fly hackle. I still mangle my flies quite a bit so I will not be buying whiting platinum anytime soon. I was wondering a) what is the difference between dry fly cape and dry fly saddle b) Is it worth getting a full cape/saddle and c) what colors should I definitely get....

I know this question is a lot about personal preference, but I am really in need of some advice

any input appreciated
 
Troutmd-

I don't have answers for you since I'm new to tying too. I thought you might be interested in this site though. Its a hackle coop.

Line's End Inc - [Body Parts]

Basically, you can buy smaller amounts of various colors. It sounds like a good way to get the materials need to tie a lot of different patterns without laying out a ton of dough.

Anybody have any experience with this coop idea?

Thanks
 
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The response to this will be full of definite maybes.

The necks you need depend on the flies you tie! Keep it simple - think hard for what flies you really fish with. Get the necks to tie those.

Saddles and capes/necks are from different parts of the rooster. The saddles have long feathers that are easy to tie with and can even tie a few flies sometimes but don't have as many sizes - usually heavy on the 12's and 14s. Necks have shorter feathers, but usually tie down to about a size 20 or 24 depending on the neck. Need to tie midges - a neck will be better. Pumping out dozens of size 14 elk hair caddis - maybe a saddle.

Colors are a tough one. I am going way out on a limb here, but maybe start with a dun one for the early season bugs (the April grays) and a tan/light brown for the late season bugs. Select hackle with mottling or barring rather than a solid color since it looks buggier and can cover more color schemes.

Go to a fly shop or to the Fly Show and ask someone to show you what to look for in a neck. Explain that you are a beginner and what you expect to get out of fly tying. Going over necks and saddles in person with a knowledgable guy is really the best way to get started. Reading about selecting a neck is a poor substitute for actually touching and feeling them.
 
I'm often one to go on the hunt for cheap stuff when obtaining tying materials, but dry fly hackle is definitely not one of them.

The best advice I think I could give you is to get the best quality cape you can afford. I have mostly Whiting capes, and nothing less than Silver grade, for dries. There are several good brands of dry fly capes out there, but Whiting is probably the only brand I'd trust to buy over the Internet.

Ideally, you want to take them out of the bag and look at the feathers, and bend the quills to make sure the barbules separate.

Regarding color I think you can probably tie up 95% of everything you could possibly want to tie with just three - a medium dun, light ginger, and grizzly. If I was going to buy just one, it would be the medium dun.

Saddle is what I use for streamers.
 
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Scott said:
Regarding color I think you can probably tie up 95% of everything you could possibly want to tie with just three - a medium dun, light ginger, and grizzly. If I was going to buy just one, it would be the medium dun.
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Scott got this perfect. The three colors above can tie most dry flies.
Buy quality in a cape. The better the quality, the less webbing in each feather. Hoffman (whiting farms) hackles also have long feathers so you can get more sometimes up to 3 flies per feather.
The better the grade, the more sizes you can get off a cape. Keep in mind though, you will be able to tie many different size flies from a good quality cape. 12's - 26

If you are tying all size 14's or all size 16's...buy a quality saddle in that size. You will get more bang for your buck.

Since your are just starting, no need to go crazy. You can get a decent neck and saddle combination from (Edited in COLLINS) Hackles, I wrote the wrong one earlier) hackles for about $36. Perfect to start with and their colors are good as well.

Start with a med dun, then grizzly, then a ginger. To cover brown and black, if you find a good Cree neck, jump on it.
 
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Cree necks are great! You can tie an Adams (brown and grizzly hackles combined) with just one feather and they work great for most caddis flies. Since what is called cree can vary a good deal it is best to see one before you buy it - especially since cree commonly comes at a premium price. This is one time where going to the fly tying or fly fishing show and rummaging through bins of necks can be useful. Usually there is someone to talk too also.

Collins is another good hackle supplier, especially for multi-colored necks.

One more caveat about buying too many necks. I have accumulated tons of necks over the years, but seem to use comparaduns, sparkle duns, showshoe emergers, and CDC flies more and more and hackled flies less and less. As a result, all those necks are mostly just sitting. A few good patches of deer hair get me buy most of the time these days (and Blue Ribbon Flies has the best!)
 
Here's how I understand it:
Saddle comes from the rooster's butt (next time you say "what?" and someone says "chicken butt", think of saddle hackles... :dizzy: ). It's those long showy feathers they have on their rear end.

Cape is just what it sounds like. It's from where you would wear a cape, around the back of your neck and down your back. Same with a chicken.
 
a lot of good info has preceded this.

I like capes so I can tie lots of different sized flies.

I usually buy Whiting ( et all ) Silver grade half-capes.
Good bang for the buck.

Whiting, Herbert, Hoffman, Collins, Conranch all produce good hackle.

You can purchase full capes, full saddles, half-capes, half-saddles, quarter-saddles
depending on which merchant that you choose to go through. Lower initial cost for cut ups ( but less product, too )

A couple of Cool sites to peruse:
FlyTyerVariant
Whiting
Collins Hackle
Conranch Fly Tying Hackle
 
since I posted I have been looking into some different cape's.
What is confusing me is grade. Should I shy away from collin's grade 3 and conrach's grade 3 and compromise with grade 2? I have only been tying a couple of months and most of my flies I razor off the thread and restart.
How about Keough. Ramsey has their tyer's grade on sale for 19-21 $
Any input much appreciated.
 
troutmd said:
since I posted I have been looking into some different cape's.
What is confusing me is grade. Should I shy away from collin's grade 3 and conrach's grade 3 and compromise with grade 2? I have only been tying a couple of months and most of my flies I razor off the thread and restart.
How about Keough. Ramsey has their tyer's grade on sale for 19-21 $
Any input much appreciated.
Click to expand...

The higher the number, the better the grade. If you buy a gread 2 or 1, you will get more usable feathers, better variety of sizes. You will also find a higher grade easier to tie with. The better the feather, the easier it will wrap.

take a few tying lessons before buying materials.
A grade 3 is a tough grade to tie with. Grade 2 is fine for now but you will see, as you tie more and more, you will want to use a better grade feather.
 
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