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Montana trip low down.

dcabarle

Administrator
While packing for my trip, I fired up an old IBM T40 laptop I have laying around the house literally collecting dust. I just wanted to see if it still worked. I figured I'd use it to transfer my photo's from my camera's memory card to the laptop drive for storage and safe keeping. Of course if there was that slim chance of an internet connection in a town with a fly shop, a gas station, a bar, and a diner, I'd take full advantage of it.

Sitting in the diner, I took out my iPod and watched one of those Rise Form videos on how to European nymph with Aaron Jaspar. :) Ohhh come on now... So with my iPod in my hand, I have it search for some wireless connections. Wouldn't you know it, "Bo's Chevron" right across the street from the Blue Whale diner has an unsecured connection! Right on, "Bo"! Now you know when, Bo, chose to use his money for an internet connection instead of a new set of pearly whites, Montana means business (as far as the internet is concerned) and has its priorities in check!

Before I continue, let me mention a little something about the Blue Whale diner / restaurant. This place is SPOTLESS. It's a 50's themed type of place with lots of original old goodies hanging around. The food was good and the people were super friendly. They're closed on Mondays, but not to take the day off... They actually dedicate Mondays for cleaning. If that's not clean enough for you, they have what they call, "Employee Ketchup". So what is, "Employee Ketchup"? You know when you're in the diner late at night and you see the waitress's emptying the 1/2 filled containers into each other. Let's face it, there's a chance you might be getting some pretty old ketchup. Not at the Blue Whale. Those 1/2 filled ketchup containers are emptied into another bin for employee use and brand spanking new bottles of ketchup are put into service! Ok... reality kicks in. Have you ever had a bad bottle of ketchup? What are the chances. Anyhow, if you're ever in the area and need a quick fix, this place is my choice for Twin Bridges.

Onward... We stayed at xxxxx xxxxxxx. There's a reason I don't mention the name but I'll get to that later. Ok, I'll get to it now. As nice as these people were, they are penny pinchers. I had a bill come out to 61.75. I had some loose change in my pocket. Out of that change, at least .10 cents were in the form of pennies. The owner asked me if they were all there. I counted them but jesus H christ.... Who the **** asks if all of the pennies were there? I told her to count them over just to be sure, and she did just that. Any other fly shop or dingleberry store or (insert store type here (banks don't count so don't try getting smart with me. You know exactly what I mean and unless you're a cheapskate too, you would have simply put the pennies into the register and if 1 or 2 were missing, you would have said, "Ohhh well", taken 1 or 2 out of your pocket and called it a day)) would have thrown those pennies in the drawer and said, "I aint countin that shit." I purchased quite a few flies from this joint... As if I don't know that a large fly and small fly are only pennies in actual cost to the retailer... I attempted to return 3 flies and trade them in for 3 other patterns. This dope gives a sigh as if I'm ruining her day by asking to trade them in for 3 other flies. The flies they have are categorized as "Small, Medium, Large"... I just happened to have 3 "medium" sized flies for the trade. After the long sigh, she says to me, "Why don't you just take 2 large for the 3 medium." I took the 2 "Large" because I could see at this point, she was nickel and diming me. I was also purchasing a few souvenirs for the kids. I asked if she could just apply the cost of the 3 "Medium" flies to the cost of the sweatshirt. "NO." Now, if your really need to know the name of this shop, I'll give it to you privately but I'm certainly not going to endorse the name without them taking out a paid advertisement. I'll also add that they were very generous 1 evening when they invited us over to their place for dinner. They're just very business oriented and in my opinion, they're in it strictly for the cash and not because they love it (MY OPINION). I've been wrong before and I might be wrong now.

GUIDES: The first day, we went out with Mr. Personality himself, Mr. Eli McIntosh. He's a big AL Caucci fan. "Al this", "Al that", "Al was in my boat", "Al can lift up a rock and tell you almost to the second when it's going to hatch", "Al - Al - Al - Al - Al", "PRAISE BE TO AL!!!". ENOUGH ALREADY... Sorry AL, but I just couldn't care less who rode in this guys boat. Eli was ok, but it didn't seem like he was into doing what he was doing and it really didn't seem like he wanted to be there. It appeared as if he was a bit into himself (and Al) more than anything. This was the most uneventful fishing day we've ever had.

Day two... We met up with Seth. On the way to the river, we were kind of explaining to Seth how we like to fish and Seth (with a good sense of humor) says, "So basically you just want me to row the boat". YES YES YES!!!! Seth got it. I'd recommend Seth anytime to anybody. I don't want to go on and tell you what a great guy Seth is because let's face it, I don't really know him but, Seth was a great guide for the day. We asked to have him assigned to us again but the shop had other plans for us.

Day three... Mark... Mark is a big kinda guy with a pretty good personality. He was very knowledgeable about quite a few things and didn't hesitate to tell us anything that he thought was interesting. I'd certainly recommend Mark to anyone in need of a good guide. He was down to earth and pretty interesting. Only 1 thing irked me. This was Wednesday I believe and Wednesday was the day for the fly shop owners to show us some western hospitality. See... The owner was throwing this shin dig back at the ranch and told Mark that he had to have us back at the ranch by 6 or 6:30pm (I forget). Did I mention that it doesn't get dark in Montana until 10pm? After the 2nd or 3rd mention of this outing, I told Mark that we didn't fly 2500 miles across the country to sit at a BBQ. We were there to fish. Needless to say, we were back at the shop by 6:30. He stressed to us that, "She is the boss and I have to listen to her". I told him, "We are the boss, we are paying you." He didn't want to hear it. My opinion... He wanted to go home and do whatever he does once he gets there. What guide will rush you off the river for a bbq (that might I add, he didn't even attend!) after you tell him you didn't give a shit about the F'ng bbq? On a brighter note... the catching was lousy anyway and there were no signs of anything happening. Maybe this was a blessing in disguise? Well, we get home and another guide comes strolling in about an hour later. See Mark gave us wrong directions to the BBQ so we traveled a way down the road to the wrong house only to find that the owners have moved. We drove back to the shop and nobody was there. While bullshitting around, another guide rolls in (about an hour later)' see, he didn't care about the BBQ. He did the same float we did. While talking to the guide, he tells us, "After you guys left, the place lit up like fireflies! We caught fish after fish after fish." Now, do you know how frustrating that was? I asked them if they were caught on dries and he said 'NO'. So that was a relief. Again, I didn't fly 2500 miles to do that bullshit nymph fishing bullshit. I'm not a numbers guy. I'm a guy who likes to see the trout come to the top and take my fly. 1 nice fish on a dry beats 125 fish on a nymph ANY DAY, ANY TIME, PERIOD. Call me a purist... It's just my preference. You fish your way and I'll fish mine. ANYHOW....

For the next 3 guided days of fishing, we rode with Frank. Now here's what I didn't like about Frank. and that's all I gotta say about that. Frank convinced us that he wanted to be on the river. He was knowledgeable, he told some great stories, he kept us on the river for as long as we wanted, and he never lead us to believe he was in a rush. He's a funny guy who really enjoys employing very colorful metaphors to get things moving along such as, "Let's go, get in the fvcking car" or to motivate, "Catch that last fvcking fish so we can get to the fvcking bar", or even at times to encourage, "Take a lesson from the old man, he's the only one catching a fvcking thing" or maybe to say goodnight, "See you at the fvcking bar." Frank was a lot of fun to be with and I'd recommend him to anyone going out west. Contact me for his contact info because let me tell you... You'll have a great time with him. I don't want to cut Seth out of the picture here because he was also very good but Frank is the one we had the most fun with.

So here's what I learned about the Salmon fly hatch. It's a bout as predictable as Green Drakes on June 3, 2010. You with me?

As you can imagine, we were a little disappointed with this fishing experience because we were told on so many occasions that we would be in prime time Salmon Fly season (which we were). My father called a week in advance of our trip and the word was that they were knocking the trout dead with these flies. I called up the Thursday before we left and the story was the same, "They're slamming the fish on the Salmon flies on all rivers right now." Then when I arrived and got ready to fish, I asked the owner which flies they've been slamming the fish on. He directed me to the bin and didn't even hesitate to allow me to purchase 35 flies (Large and Medium).

See... even if they said, "Fishing's been kinda slow", we weren't going to cancel our trip. We would have still come. I might not have purchased 30+ flies from them but, to get us all excited over NOTHING then allow us to purchase a bunch of shit that they 100% knew wasn't going to work, was just wrong. What was even worse was going outside in the mornings and hearing the guides telling stories about how slow it has been and how the Salmon flies haven't started popping yet. Do you understand how I would be a bit pissed. These guys are in it for the money. The hospitality thing was nice but it was all part of the sales game.

I know... I know... "But you were out on a great trip with your Dad, doesn't that count for anything?" Yeah it counts for a lot of things but, let's cut through the bullshit. My Dad and I had a great time and I can't wait to do it again with him, no matter how good or shitty the Catching is. The point of the last paragraph: I DON'T LIKE BEING LIED TO. Let me explain it like this... You tell your 12 year old kid that you're taking him/her to the beach and boardwalk for a week. You call the resort and they tell you the weather has been great and there's no sign of rain for the next 2 years. FUN IN THE SUN!!!... You pack your bags and you're on your way. When you arrive, not only does it start to snow, but you just found out that everything on that boardwalk burned down last year and they're not done rebuilding it. You go into the little store and the guy sees a small opening in the thick clouds and has no problem selling you a bottle of his most expensive Suntan lotion and a few beach towels. You all with me here or did you fall asleep at Rise form?

My summary... I wouldn't use this outfitter again because I think they're liars and will do anything for a sale. So while they have my short term money they will never see me again. Isn't the idea behind business to gain the trust of your customers to ensure that they WANT to come back to see you. I'll find someplace else. Backdoor Outfitters is the place we used the first time we went to Montana. I'd use them over and over and over again because they were just that damned good.

Another thing that gets me is that there are 5 rivers in the general area. We were told before the trip that they're all kicking ass. We wound up fishing the Big Hole river 5 out of 6 trips. One day we fished the Madison for a change of view. Not a helluva lot was happening there either. Any time we mentioned to a guide that we wanted to fish a different river, they gave us the rundown of why we didn't want to fish another river. Only Frank said, "Let's give it a shot".

I'm pretty convinced that these guides don't fish with many people who actually know how to fish. They use these balloon bobber things which I think are just ridiculous. If you use an indicator for anything other than indicating; holding it off the water to keep track of the end of your fly line, than it's a bobber and not an indicator. The only difference between yours and the little red and white one are the colors. They float, they bob, they go under when a fish hits your bait. You midas well use worms too.

So how was the catching? Here are a few pictures:
 

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Thanks for the report dc some amazing shots you got .
That last picture is unblievable.

Sucks that it didnt go the way you had planned.
 
Hey dc, one hell of a report! Great pics too! If for nothing else, the scenery is almost worth the trip!
 
Your photos are top notch!

I have always heard that planning a trip around the salmon fly hatch was like a dog chasin' it's tail. Two years ago we heard the big bugs were hot and heavy on the south fork of the Snake. On our 12 mile float we saw 2 salmon flies! I like to play it safe and go in mid-July. Lots of different bugs and the river levels are usually great. At least you made it out west.....no trip for me this year.
 
Hello Dennis,

""They're slamming the fish on the Salmon flies on all rivers right now."

Any time you hear an outfitter say that after a huge snowpack winter you can pretty much know he is BS'ing you and just wants you to come out and not cancel your trip.

I'm no expert about when the Salmon fly emerges on Montana rivers but after going out there over forty trips and spending literally hundreds of days fishing I would say it is far more important to keep an eye on the USGS real time water watch for the section of MT you are planning to fish. Look at the historic flows for that day/week and compare them to the current flows and you'll get a better idea of what is going on on the rivers.

There is also a great web site (PM me for the link) that has "Tea cup" models of all the reservoirs of the Missouri River drainage so you will know how much water is in Clark Canyon, Canyon Ferry, Quake Lake, etc. This data will help you figure out if the rivers are going to get any higher.
 
I'll be posting more pics when I'm in the mood. I really liked the warmth of this photo. It remindes me of a time and place in the past. I can see a little post cart driving down this road or possibly a milk truck.

Since my monitor is not calibrated, you are probably seeing a completely different image than I'm seeing. Mine looks warm such as "magic hour" which is actually when this photo was taken. Hope you like it and if not... well maybe you'll like the next one. :)


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I'll be posting more pics when I'm in the mood. I really liked the warmth of this photo. It remindes me of a time and place in the past. I can see a little post cart driving down this road or possibly a milk truck. :)

That reminds me of Wisdom or any of those old cowtowns in southwest MT. Gorgeous shot! I believe you have my address to send my mural-sized print. :D
 
A couple of responses to your post... The salmonfly hatch is typically far more predictable on medium sized tailwaters of the west such as colorado's gunnison and henry's fork of the snake in idaho. The gunnison salmonfly hatch is super consistent, maybe the most anywhere, always early june.

Other questions loom from what u wrote. Why go after the salmonfly hatch anywhere? It is difficult to time in most places, and fish are generally gorged by midday on the nymphs. It is not the best fishing scenario that it seems, even if you do hit it right. With six weeks of set your watch green drake hatches on the frying pan river in colorado, why would someone spend so much time and energy on a trip more difficult to predict?

Another question i have as a guide is, if you wanted to fish until dark why did you not schedule a 1-dark trip? Guides are at the mercy of shop times and the owners schedule. I dont say this to put blame on you, the shop should have mentioned that the best fishing was from 1-dark. It is very important to come into any shop and communicate with the guides or owners about conditions. the guides main job is to give u what u want, but many times without enough communication it gets lost in the shuffle. I dont know how reputable that service is anyway, could have just been a bad shop.

Before anyone on this site books a trip out west, please contact me on here or by phone at 917 715 3424. I work for the most reputable shop in the rocky mountains with more guides and guided trips per year than any other shop in the world. We have been open with only one ownership change for 37 years, and can refer other great shops for anywhere in the west.
 
DC - great report. Nice to see you're another dry fly addict like me!!! Why nymph during dry fly season except in the dead of winter when you just have to catch a trout to shake off those shack-nasties? "Dry fly or die" I always say :)

coloradoguide - here in the East on rivers like the Delaware and its tribs the guides take you out around 9:30 or 10 am and fish 'till dark or beyond. That is a normal "full day" fare. Thought it was interesting when you mentioned the 1-dark trips.
 
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My last trip to Montana, was in the late '90s to fish the Bitteroot, they guide was really great. He asked how late I wanted to stay out, and I asked how long his arms could holdout. We hit the river for three days by 9:30 and never gt off before 10:30/11:00 pm. Sadly Paul Koler who owned the shop passed away and his wife closed it. I would recommend the guide, but he drank the Kool Aid and is now a TU Staff person!
 
My last trip to Montana, was in the late '90s to fish the Bitteroot, they guide was really great. He asked how late I wanted to stay out, and I asked how long his arms could holdout. We hit the river for three days by 9:30 and never gt off before 10:30/11:00 pm. Sadly Paul Koler who owned the shop passed away and his wife closed it. I would recommend the guide, but he drank the Kool Aid and is now a TU Staff person!

Big Dave Rogers? If so, right now he's changing diapers for his latest addition to the family.
 
Other questions loom from what u wrote. Why go after the salmonfly hatch anywhere? It is difficult to time in most places, and fish are generally gorged by midday on the nymphs. It is not the best fishing scenario that it seems, even if you do hit it right.
Hindsight is 20/20. Now I know. We thought it would have been a blast to catch large trout on large flies. Difficult doesn't bother me. I like a challenge.


With six weeks of set your watch green drake hatches on the frying pan river in colorado, why would someone spend so much time and energy on a trip more difficult to predict?
I/we did not realize this was a difficult hatch to predict but, I would have liked to know that before we went. I still would not have cancelled knowing that the fish were actually not on. Knowing what you mention above, beforehand, I would have prepared for this trip a little differently. I left the majority of my fly boxes at home because I was told that the Salmon flies were, "ON FIRE". Since this was not the case, I had to purchase flies from this shop which I already have tons of.

Another question i have as a guide is, if you wanted to fish until dark why did you not schedule a 1-dark trip? Guides are at the mercy of shop times and the owners schedule. I dont say this to put blame on you, the shop should have mentioned that the best fishing was from 1-dark. It is very important to come into any shop and communicate with the guides or owners about conditions.
Trust me, we told the shop owners EXACTLY what we were looking for. Even the day of the BBQ we stressed to the owner that we wanted to fish and were not concerned with the BBQ. It was as if the woman in charge said to the guide behind our backs, "Fvck them, get them back here by 6:30pm." These people knew EXACTLY what we wanted. I'm sure there was no communication issue. This was an issue of, "We have them here, we have their money, fvck them." And that's what the attitude is in this shop. I have no problem with people making money in this business but, I don't think you have to be a scumbag about it.

As far as your 1pm - dark thing and being at someones mercy??? Come on... You're on a boat floating down a river... The only mercy you're under once you leave the shop is your shuttle service and Mother Nature.

I think you western guides need to check out BackdoorOutfitters.com (bitter root, clark fork, blackfoot, etc...) These guys bust their asses all day and are generally good people who are in it for the love of the sport. They don't nickel and dime you for every little ****ing thing. As a matter of fact, they have a fly shop which you can go to, pick out the flies you want, write how many you took on a chalk board (honor system), and return the ones you didn't use at the end of your trip. The guides keep you on the river until you're ready to get off. 10+hr days was not uncommon with these guys. Guiding is not a 9-5 job. This shop assured us on numerous occasions that the guides here were not the 9-5 type and that they would stay on the rivers as long as we wanted. Again, a line of bullshit to get our money. Also, as Rusty Spinner noted... Our guides here in the East also keep you on the rivers until after dark. A 10-11am float - 9pm-10pm is not uncommon.

the guides main job is to give u what u want, but many times without enough communication it gets lost in the shuffle. I dont know how reputable that service is anyway, could have just been a bad shop.
There was no mis-communication. Did you read my report? Did you not see where I told the 1 guide that the BBQ although on his adjenda, was not on ours and we were there to fish, not to BBQ. We were very clear with everyone as to our intentions and what we wanted and what we expected. I know you're a guide and have to kind of stick up for your comrads but what's right is right.

There are some great rivers I've fished out west. I'd be happy to fish any of them again but I'll never use this place again, that's for sure.

Before anyone on this site books a trip out west, please contact me on here or by phone at 917 715 3424. I work for the most reputable shop in the rocky mountains with more guides and guided trips per year than any other shop in the world. We have been open with only one ownership change for 37 years, and can refer other great shops for anywhere in the west.
Sounds good, thanks..
 
First of all, it is the Blue Anchor, not Blue Whale. Secondly, I can't imagine talking about the teeth or lack thereof a local Montana boy who may not be able to afford the dental work.
Finally, no one at this shop ever asked you if the pennies were all there--it just didn't happen. No one ever told you that you could not return your flies for anything else in the shop. Your father returned $44 worth of flies and bought a $45 sweatshirt. Many of the flies that you and your father returned were not even bought at this shop and several still had the tippet attached to them, where they had been used. I have NEVER had flies returned to this shop. There was definitely a case of nickle and diming and it wasn't us! We included all of your flies in your guide trip, so there was never any reason for you to buy your own flies, except that you thought you knew more about our local rivers than your guides who were either born and raised here or have been professionally guiding on these waters a heck of a lot longer than you when you strolled in to town! We also invited you to a BBQ at our home on our dime, as our guest, along with some other clients. You did NOT have to accept our invitation, and frankly would have been happier in retrospect if you had not. It is quite a coward who sups at someones table and then stabs them in the back. The report form all of the guides was that you were the most difficult client that they had ever had in their boat, EVER, BAR NONE! You think you know it all and can't be guided. The reason you did not fish again with Eli or Seth is that the REFUSED to take you out again. We DO call indicators bobbers and no one ever told you that it was a sure thing that the salomon flies would be holding on until your blessed arrival. If we could predict that, we wouldn't need to be running a fly shop. You could have fished any river you wanted, but you said you wanted to catch fish. We can't make the fish eat flies on top, and when you figure out how to make them eat YOUR dry flies, let us know.
 
First of all, it is the Blue Anchor, not Blue Whale. Secondly, I can't imagine talking about the teeth or lack thereof a local Montana boy who may not be able to afford the dental work.
Finally, no one at this shop ever asked you if the pennies were all there--it just didn't happen. No one ever told you that you could not return your flies for anything else in the shop. Your father returned $44 worth of flies and bought a $45 sweatshirt. Many of the flies that you and your father returned were not even bought at this shop and several still had the tippet attached to them, where they had been used. I have NEVER had flies returned to this shop. There was definitely a case of nickle and diming and it wasn't us! We included all of your flies in your guide trip, so there was never any reason for you to buy your own flies, except that you thought you knew more about our local rivers than your guides who were either born and raised here or have been professionally guiding on these waters a heck of a lot longer than you when you strolled in to town! We also invited you to a BBQ at our home on our dime, as our guest, along with some other clients. You did NOT have to accept our invitation, and frankly would have been happier in retrospect if you had not. It is quite a coward who sups at someones table and then stabs them in the back. The report form all of the guides was that you were the most difficult client that they had ever had in their boat, EVER, BAR NONE! You think you know it all and can't be guided. The reason you did not fish again with Eli or Seth is that the REFUSED to take you out again. We DO call indicators bobbers and no one ever told you that it was a sure thing that the salomon flies would be holding on until your blessed arrival. If we could predict that, we wouldn't need to be running a fly shop. You could have fished any river you wanted, but you said you wanted to catch fish. We can't make the fish eat flies on top, and when you figure out how to make them eat YOUR dry flies, let us know.
You argue your points well.But personally i would like to know what makes someone the worst guided client bar none .
Im not sticking up for dc i dont even know the chap but it seems to me he knows what he wants when he goes fishing.
Is that wrong does that make him a d1ck ? IDONT THINK SO.
I personally have had a few experiences with guides who wouldve wiped my ass if i asked them.Thats not my style i like to fish and learn the ropes.

So my point is is that being labeled the worst client ever bar none is an overstatement .
Im sure you have had worse and why doesnt seth and eli state for themselevs that they did not want to guide him and his father instead of you lord almighty.

The customer is always right me old boy what buisness ethics course did you take.

Sometimes you should look at the bad points to make trips more enjoyable
for Mugs like us who pay top dollar to come out west .
Unfortunatly for me ive never had that experience of going out west.

Jamie.
 
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I don't expect anyone to believe everything or anything I say, but I'm sure that out of the 3000 or so users we have here as well as the thousands of users who simply view the site without actually registering, those who know me whether they love me or hate me, definetely know that I'm at least honest. Every story has 2 sides. Now that everyone has both of our stories, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Keeping in mind of course... reporting this story the way it happened doesn't put cash in my pocket. This site is paid for and maintained by me.

The bottom line is that I have nothing to protect. It doesn't benefit me in any way shape or form to lie about something. You on the other hand have every reason to "defend" at any cost, your livelyhood. Also, please note that I didn't mention your business name and you won't find it anywhere in MY post. That's not to say that someone else may have figured it out.

Now, let me just say that I speak for me, not for me and my father. He actually had nothing to say about you or your business in the public forum. I'll be sure to let him know what you and your guides really thought of him. He was planning another trip out there to see you guys because although some things didn't go his way, overall he was happy with you and your guides.

First of all, it is the Blue Anchor, not Blue Whale. Secondly, I can't imagine talking about the teeth or lack thereof a local Montana boy who may not be able to afford the dental work.

As far as my comment about, Bo... I don't know Bo. I didn't know if he had all of his teeth or not. Thanks. My comment towards, Bo was in jest. Maybe poor humor? I don't know. I'd like everyone to know that I have a front tooth that was knocked out by a hockey accident and I HAVE CHOSEN THE INTERNET & AN EXPENSIVE TRIP TO MONTANA INSTEAD OF DISHING OUT THE $5000.00 for the new tooth. No big deal... No harm, no foul. My tooth is loose and I pray to the tooth fairy every night that it doesn't fall out with the next apple I eat.

Blue Anchor / Blue Whale... My mistake. I had nothing bad to say about them. I thought it was funny about the employee ketchup but that was it. It's a nice place, well kept, and very clean. Where's the beef?

So far I've addressed the diner and Bo. Let me move on because I think some of your statements are flat out lies. Keep in mind that I'm only going to speak for me because I wasn't there the entire time you dealt with my father. I don't know what he purchased and I don't know what he returned.

Finally, no one at this shop ever asked you if the pennies were all there--it just didn't happen.
Yes, it did and I have a witness. Probably not the best witness but I do have one. My father could not believe that you had the girl count every single last cent. He even mentioned to me when we got outside that he couldn't beleive you did that! I stick to my story... It most certainly did happen. Shit, I'd deny it too. That's embarrasing.

No one ever told you that you could not return your flies for anything else in the shop.
Actually, I asked if I could return the flies for a credit. I was told YES by, Greg, but when it was time to return the flies, I asked his wife if I could apply them to my sweatshirt. She got a bit smug with me and told me that she'd prefer if I returned the flies and swapped them out for, "2 large" flies. I wasn't going to argue with her, so that's what I did. By the way, I'll remind you that I personally only returned 3 flies total. I was going to return a bunch more but I lost them. She really made it sound like I was creating the most inconvenient situation for her by swapping out 3 mediums for 2 larges! Incredible.

Your father returned $44 worth of flies and bought a $45 sweatshirt. Many of the flies that you and your father returned were not even bought at this shop and several still had the tippet attached to them, where they had been used.
Again... I returned only 3 flies and I'll bet my life on it that they were returned in the same unused condition they were purchased in. I made sure I cut the tippets off before returning them. I also bathed them to ensure nobody would know. I thought I did a great job but I guess the joke is on me because you knew the entire time.

I have NEVER had flies returned to this shop.
I had no issue with the quality of your flies. My issue was that you held my hand around the fly boxes and told me what the fish were gobbling up and probably laughed about it in your head. I asked if I could return any unused flies for a credit (I never expected a cash refund) and you said, "Yes". When it was time to do so, I was denied by, Robin.

There was definitely a case of nickle and diming and it wasn't us! We included all of your flies in your guide trip, so there was never any reason for you to buy your own flies
Then you, my friend, should have made that clear to me when I was purchasing the flies on the day I arrived, but instead, you walked around the shop and told me which flies were on fire.
, except that you thought you knew more about our local rivers than your guides who were either born and raised here or have been professionally guiding on these waters a heck of a lot longer than you when you strolled in to town!
I never once said or insinuated that I know more about your rivers than you do. I do remember asking about the fishing below the bear trap on the Madison. I asked about this because of a report I received from a reliable source who works in a shop out your way. We did take your guides advice and never fished that part of the Madison. Here's the deal though... When we booked the trip with you, we were very specific as to how we wanted to fish. We told you we wanted the guides there to row the boat and that was all. You agreed. We told you we wanted to be on the rivers for extended periods of time... You told us, "Not a problem". We also told you that we did not want our hands held while fishing. We told you that if we weren't catching fish, it would not have been the guides fault. Speaking for myself, I specifically told each guide that I wasn't interested in their input (not in those words, I'm not a total douchebag). I like to figure things on my own because it's fun. It's NOT FUN IN MY OPINION to have your hand held and let some guide do all of the figuring out for you so you could sit back like a retard waiting for that bobber to bounce... but that's just me and that's not how I roll and I made that very clear to you and to each one of the guides. If I'm not catching fish because of something I was not doing right, than too bad. Not the guides problem. I know for sure that I let you know that on many occasions before our trip.

We also invited you to a BBQ at our home on our dime, as our guest, long with some other clients. You did NOT have to accept our invitation, and frankly would have been happier in retrospect if you had not. It is quite a coward who sups at someones table and then stabs them in the back.
We asked many times to be kept on the river late. We told our guide, Mark, that we didn't need the BBQ. We spoke with you in the morning and told you that we'de prefer to fish. Instead, Mark insisted that Robin was the boss and she wanted us back in time for the BBQ. We told Mark that we were paying him but he said that Robin was the boss and Robin pays him. One thing you mention above, the word "client". I know that technically in a business sense, we're "Clients". This was part of the problem. I don't want to be referred to as a "Client". Save that terminology for the proctologist. "Guests" would have been fine. Using that term makes it feel like a visit to the therapist instead of a fishing trip.

The BBQ was nice. You have a beautiful house too. I kinda lost all hope in finding any of the Salmon flies that you said were tearing up the rivers. Then the nickel and diming thing during check out was just ridiculous (come on... I can't make that stuff up!). So while I still remained somewhat positive and good spirited the night of the BBQ, I'm thinking that instead of the BBQ, we should have still been out fishing. Not for nothing... Are you telling me that the entire time we were at your place, you were friendly with us but when we turned our backs, you and your guides would talk about us but still invite us into your home, all the while thinking what dickheads we were without actually telling us we were dickheads? Didn't you just call me a coward for doing just that?

The report form all of the guides was that you were the most difficult client that they had ever had in their boat, EVER, BAR NONE!
I'm not sure how? We told them that all they had to do was row the boat. What's so hard about that? Sure, we were dissapointed about not catching those Salmon flies that you told us were tearing up the rivers but other than that?
You think you know it all and can't be guided.
I don't know it all... I like to learn on my own and didn't want to be guided. I just wanted someone to row the boat and I told you this on numerous occasions and I also told the guides this before the boat was in the river. Seth caught on pretty quick... As I was speaking about it in the car, he turned to me and said, "So you just want me to row the boat." I'm surprised he'd say we made his life miserable. Again... we were disapointed with the extremely high water flows and no salmon flies but we did laugh with each of your guides and made the best of the day with them. We had no issue with any of your guides. The only guide I didn't care for was Eli and quite frankly, I was very happy to not have had him again.

I'll also mention that your guides didn't have an issue fishing with us either. We specifically told the guides that it was their day off. When we got out of the boat, they could fish if they wanted. NOW THAT'S A FVCKING HARD JOB... GET PAID TO FISH AND GET A DECENT TIP AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I know I can be a dickhead and not too easy to warm up to as a person. This is why I communicate in a forum. But, I don't have an issue meeting up with people who disagree with me. I don't hide behind an alias or handle... My name is everywhere and photo's of me are everywhere. Everyone knows where I fish and how to contact me.

For anyone reading this... Not 1 time did a guide have to tie a tippet onto my line or a fly onto my line. Not time did a guide have to untangle a line or recommend a fly to use. I think that makes for a very easy day. I know I'm not the most easy person to have a conversation with but my father is a jolly bowl of laughs and will turn the crappiest of situations into something positive. I'll also mention that the guides here who called us difficult didn't have a problem taking my fathers cigars or drinking his aged scotch. Again, touche' on the cowardness... All of the guides you speak about had no problem taking my fathers liquor or his cigars. So here they all are chumming it up with us than running back to you to complain about the self sufficient guys who don't want their help... and I'll remind you that we told you this before booking the trip and numerous times after booking the trip. You were very eager to book this for us and explained to us that none of this would be an issue so what's the issue?

We DO call indicators bobbers
I never said you didn't call them bobbers. Here is what I said,

"I'm pretty convinced that these guides don't fish with many people who actually know how to fish. They use these balloon bobber things which I think are just ridiculous. If you use an indicator for anything other than indicating; holding it off the water to keep track of the end of your fly line, than it's a bobber and not an indicator. The only difference between yours and the little red and white one are the colors. They float, they bob, they go under when a fish hits your bait. You midas well use worms too."

I expressed my opinion on the balloon things. Nothing derogatory about you or your guides.

and no one ever told you that it was a sure thing that the salomon flies would be holding on until your blessed arrival. If we could predict that, we wouldn't need to be running a fly shop.
You are right... You never told me that. But what you did tell me was that the guides have been into some great hatches and fish were being hammered on the flies you pointed out and recommended that I purchased. I don't even have an issue with that but, when the guides are all outside the shop talking about how slow the fishing has been and that the Salmon flies haven't even arrived yet.... And you telling us another story... well, that's where my problem is. Even on the river, the guides would tell us that it just hasn't picked up this year yet. So you're telling us that the rivers are on fire and the guides telling us a different story... that's an issue.

I'll also mention that we still would have come. We had just preferred it if you were more honest with us when we spoke about this to you.

You could have fished any river you wanted, but you said you wanted to catch fish. We can't make the fish eat flies on top, and when you figure out how to make them eat YOUR dry flies, let us know.
Of course we wanted to catch fish! I'm not even sure how to respond to this paragraph so I'll leave it at that.

Edit: I use the term "You" very often. I'm not quite sure which proprietor I'm speaking to here. You is being referred to as one of the two prioprietors. Sorry for any confussion.
Also, 2:10am... Post modified to correct typos and added a few more comments.
 
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I think someone in Montana... this isn't the best week... for anything.

Next week the bloating will be gone and "it" might be back to normal.

Lastly, I though the "Blue Whale" was the owner.. LOL

I guess I was wrong.

AK Skim


PS

I asked before, you didn't want to post it, but what is the name of that outfitter and shop???? After their response I would say all bets are off.

I like nothing better than to drag some cheapo through the mud for a while.

YEEeeeeee..... HAAaaaaaaa....
 
First of all, it is the Blue Anchor, not Blue Whale. Secondly, I can't imagine talking about the teeth or lack thereof a local Montana boy who may not be able to afford the dental work.
Finally, no one at this shop ever asked you if the pennies were all there--it just didn't happen. No one ever told you that you could not return your flies for anything else in the shop. Your father returned $44 worth of flies and bought a $45 sweatshirt. Many of the flies that you and your father returned were not even bought at this shop and several still had the tippet attached to them, where they had been used. I have NEVER had flies returned to this shop. There was definitely a case of nickle and diming and it wasn't us! We included all of your flies in your guide trip, so there was never any reason for you to buy your own flies, except that you thought you knew more about our local rivers than your guides who were either born and raised here or have been professionally guiding on these waters a heck of a lot longer than you when you strolled in to town! We also invited you to a BBQ at our home on our dime, as our guest, along with some other clients. You did NOT have to accept our invitation, and frankly would have been happier in retrospect if you had not. It is quite a coward who sups at someones table and then stabs them in the back. The report form all of the guides was that you were the most difficult client that they had ever had in their boat, EVER, BAR NONE! You think you know it all and can't be guided. The reason you did not fish again with Eli or Seth is that the REFUSED to take you out again. We DO call indicators bobbers and no one ever told you that it was a sure thing that the salomon flies would be holding on until your blessed arrival. If we could predict that, we wouldn't need to be running a fly shop. You could have fished any river you wanted, but you said you wanted to catch fish. We can't make the fish eat flies on top, and when you figure out how to make them eat YOUR dry flies, let us know.




I have to agree with Jamie here talk about putting one's foot in one's mouth bad buissness. Last thing you would want to do is try to out patrons of your guide service in a public forum. I'll write down your name and remember not to call you for a trip if I come out your way! Thanks for the warning!! I feel sorry for the guides that provide service for you if this is the way you work sounds to me they are pretty honest guy's. Telling your custumers one thing and your guides know exactly the opposite. Truth to tell I have alot of friends coming here to fish if its crappy I tell them so and if they still want to come fish they know what to expect. That way I can plan a new course of action and usually find some fishable water. May not be exactly what they wanted but they knew well in advance so no disappointment and they always return!! Good luck with this one!!:)


By the way DC love the last picture you uploaded nicely framed and great tones!!
 
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I have to agree with Jamie here talk about putting one's foot in one's mouth bad buissness. Last thing you would want to do is try to out patrons of your guide service in a public forum. I'll write down your name and remember not to call you for a trip if I come out your way! Thanks for the warning!! I feel sorry for the guides that provide service for you if this is the way you work sounds to me they are pretty honest guy's. Telling your custumers one thing and your guides know exactly the opposite. Truth to tell I have alot of friends coming here to fish if its crappy I tell them so and if they still want to come fish they know what to expect. That way I can plan a new course of action and usually find some fishable water. May not be exactly what they wanted but they knew in advance so no disappointment and they always return!! Good luck with this one!!:)

What gets me is that I'm not even sure these poor guides know the shop is speaking on their behalf. I'd like to stress that all of these guides busted their asses. It was only the 1 guy we didn't particularly care for. Honestly, it was simply a personality conflict on my behalf. I just didn't care for him. He did bust his ass rowing the boat though, and if you were to get him, you might be great together. The rest of the guides were just fine with me.

So, if you use this outfitter multiple days and don't receive the same guide, there is a reason for this... You've been put on the shit list. Of course I don't know if this would be true for the next set of people but certainly after reading this thread, you would have to wonder, no?
 
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What gets me is that I'm not even sure these poor guides know the shop is speaking on their behalf. I'd like to stress that all of these guides busted their asses. It was only the 1 guy we didn't particularly care for. Honestly, it was simply a personality conflict on my behalf. I just didn't care for him. He did bust his ass rowing the boat though, and if you were to get him, you might be great together. The rest of the guides were just fine with me.

So, if you use this outfitter multiple days and don't receive the same guide, there is a reason for this... You've been put on the shit list. Of course I don't know if this would be true for the next set of people but certainly after reading this thread, you would have to think about it, no?


I think if they knew or found out they would be upset!! The owner putting words into his guides mouths just not good practice.. I know not everyone gets along but most people in general can find something in common and make the best of the situation. Most Guides I have talked to and fished with are good sources of information and are able to carry on an interesting conversation even if the topic is nonfishing. I don't think the guy bragging helped any he should have noticed you were not interested and looked for another avenue of engaging conversation.
 
I guess you had might aswell and let us know what outfitter it is .
Ill tell you one thing i wont be using your services.

Now had your response had a little grace and humility it might of been a different story.

It always amazes me how outfitters flyshops and guides have this higher than mighty who but me mentality.Not all have it but quite a few do.

Penny wise pound foolish my man.

Jamie
 
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Imagine what would happen if every restaurant owner went on Yelp or Citysearch to defend themselves like this! Excuse DC for exercising his right to express a legitimate opinion about your business after essentially (if you're into talking nickles and dimes) buying a decent used car from you. Once again, the name of your shop was not mentioned.
 
DC - I'd like to know the name of this outfitter. I have a buddy who lurks here that just called concerned because he's headed to Montana later this week and is booked with a new outfitter that he's never used before and wants to make sure he knows what he's getting into in case it's this same shop. He's easy going, but his father in law is not and there could be issues if they feel they have been misled about the fishing. Feel free to PM me if you are reluctant to post the name in public.
 
I just got off the phone with my father. He can't believe his eyes.

He just mentioned to me that he wrote out a check for 2200 dollars to this outfitter to satisfy the bill. It was supposed to be for 2300.00. My father has no issue at all sending the additional 100 bux to this place but wanted to see a copy of the check before just sending out the additional 100 bux. This was an honest mistake. He filled the cash part in correctly but wrote it out 100$ short. She was right... My father did make the mistake. So she sends the copy of the check and in the email message goes out of her way to remind my father that she is an officer of the court and "(a lawyer)".

The bank already cashed the check so it wasn't an issue. My father is sending out the $100.00 balance he owes via check. He has no issue paying it and he admits to me that he doesn't know what he was thinking. I know what I'm thinking... Old age is setting in.



I also asked my father about the returned flies. He said all of the flies were returned UNUSED. He also said that if there were any tippets in any of the flies he returned than they were from someone else and that the shop is selling used flies as new and before the shop put them back on the shelf, they forgot to cut the tippets off.
 
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DC - great report. Nice to see you're another dry fly addict like me!!! Why nymph during dry fly season except in the dead of winter when you just have to catch a trout to shake off those shack-nasties? "Dry fly or die" I always say :)

coloradoguide - here in the East on rivers like the Delaware and its tribs the guides take you out around 9:30 or 10 am and fish 'till dark or beyond. That is a normal "full day" fare. Thought it was interesting when you mentioned the 1-dark trips.

Remember that it does not truly get dark in the rockies until almost ten o'clock. Guiding for 12 hours is too long to float or wade every single day for the whole season. Very few of my clients would even be into that. Guides work 8 hour days just like everyone else. I dont want to sound like i am defending that hack montana guide cause i am not. Those guys were not reputable at all and make us look bad...
 
Sounds like you ran into a bad shop. Sorry that you had a bad experience. PLEASE ANYONE ON THIS SITE CONTACT ME BEFORE BOOKING TRIPS OUT WEST. It is different when you have people who are actually out there and are in the loop. Nobody should have a bad trip out west. There is no reason why this type of shit cant be avoided. I dont get kickbacks or anything for my referrals, i just want everyone to have a good experience being guided and i live there part of the year and have good contacts.

I in no way want to sound like i am defending them. I was curious as to how the interaction went that led to a disappointing trip thats all. If anyone wants to know what is going on in our rivers in colorado, our shop website as bulletproof reports so that there are no surprises. the site is taylorcreekflyshops.com
 
My life dream was to fly fish out West, and after taking care of my sister for three years who didn’t get the liver transplant she needed, and my own heart operation last year, I decided this was going to be the year to come to Twin Bridges. Even with the slow fishing I had great time and great experiences with my guides. Just being out on the water, enjoying the scenery, was good enough for me.

My host was great too. He treated me well during my stay and showed great interest and enthusiasm, and gave me the time to happily answer all by questions. I wasn’t treated as just another customer. We joked around and he always greeted me by my first name, as I was just one of many people floating around in the shop each day. On the last day of fishing and during the last hour, I caught a 22’ brown trout on a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
><st1:City w:st=
san juan</ST1:p</st1:City> worm. I came back to the Shop with a big smile on my face telling the host what I caught. I forgot to ask the guide for the fly, put was ready to buy one at the shop. When I was ready to purchase it, the owner said,” it was on me”. It’s the little things like that, that makes you feel you picked the right shop to fish. Based on my experience with this fly shop, if I get the opportunity again to come back out West, I’ll use their services again.

<O:p</O:p
It was I who alerter the Shop Owner of your trip report on this forum. It bothered me greatly when I read it, having just emailed a nice thank you note to my host the day before, stating how great a time I had during my stay. Both guides who were assigned to me were very personable and knowledgeable of the rivers they guide on in the area. . If you are a novice or and expert fly fishermen, I just can’t see how one can not have a good experience with this guide service. I can’t understand, no matter how good a fly fisherman one might be, that one would hired a guide service, but doesn’t want any input from the guide to gain valuable knowledge of the waters he fishes. What a waste just to have him row the boat. That is not what a guide does. That was probably the main problem.
<O:p</O:p
I had spoken with four other guests while there, and they were all repeat customers. One has returned for three years straight, and coming back next year for the ‘hopper’ hatch. They must be doing something right.
 
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Flyrunner,

Obviously you are a plant by the flyshop to refute Dennis' experiences that he had. From this being your first post to your cut-and-paste response, that much is clear to all of us. I would suggest to the owners of the shop that they simply leave this alone. Further poking at the owner of a site that has more than 3,000 members, many of whom take regular trips to MT, is not in your best interest. Thus far the name of the shop has been left out. If you continue to press the issue you will see your name in a very poor light and you have to know that is not good for business. Being on the defensive is no way to run a fly shop or any other business regardless of who is right and who is wrong. If you had issues with DC you simply could have reached him via a private message (PM) and settled it that way. Now you have members of this forum asking each other who you are and warning their buddies as they travel to your area.

Then again, perhaps you don't need visitors to the shop? I doubt that is the case.
 
My life dream was to fly fish out West, and after taking care of my sister for three years who didn’t get the liver transplant she needed, and my own heart operation last year, I decided this was going to be the year to come to Twin Bridges. Even with the slow fishing I had great time and great experiences with my guides. Just being out on the water, enjoying the scenery, was good enough for me.
With all due respect... It appears to me that our expectations were considerably different. It also appears that our motives for this trip were different as well. It sounds as if you've had a very stressfull and unfortunate few years and was looking forward to a stress reliever. While the scenary was breathtaking at times, I was there to fish. When the fishing was slow, I took pictures.

My host was great too. He treated me well during my stay and showed great interest and enthusiasm, and gave me the time to happily answer all by questions. I wasn’t treated as just another customer. We joked around and he always greeted me by my first name, as I was just one of many people floating around in the shop each day.
I'm not going to deny that I'm not an easy person to please. As a matter of fact, I'm very difficult to please. That said, I made it clear as to what I wanted. I asked to be kept out late and I asked that the guides simply rowed the boat and not try to teach me how to fish. As I've mentioned... We even invited the guides to fish with us so they wouldn't be bored sitting in a boat all day with nothing to do. Now how difficult could we have really made it for them?

On the last day of fishing and during the last hour, I caught a 22’ brown trout on a san juan worm.
Let me guess... You used the "turd and worm" jig the entire time you were there, with the bobber, didn't you. And, you probably caught a decent amount of fish with this jig, right? Enough fish to make you probably want to come back again. This isn't my gig and not my idea of fly fishing. EVERY boat we passed on the river had 1 -2 guys using bobbers, not just from this outfitter, but from other outfitters. It was very rare to see someone using a dry fly. I don't hold hold this outfitter responsible for water flows and I don't hold them responsible for insects not hatching at the time of the year they typically hatch. I understand they can't control mother nature. I do however find it very sad they continually told us the rivers were in great shape and the Salmon flies were tearing up the rivers (not in those exact words).

At the BBQ, we spoke with everyone there. Ironically, everyone was from NJ! EVERYONE was catching fish with the "TURD and WORM" jigs. EVERYONE appeared to be very happy fishing and catching fish this way. Hey, if that makes you happy and you are satisfied, than that's terrific, this outfitter did its job for you and If I were you, I'd consider another trip to this outfitter, they served you well.

I came back to the Shop with a big smile on my face telling the host what I caught. I forgot to ask the guide for the fly, put was ready to buy one at the shop. When I was ready to purchase it, the owner said,” it was on me”. It’s the little things like that, that makes you feel you picked the right shop to fish. Based on my experience with this fly shop, if I get the opportunity again to come back out West, I’ll use their services again.
Everyone will experience something different. I posted my experience, you posted yours. You were satisfied, I was somewhat satisfied.

It was I who alerter the Shop Owner of your trip report on this forum.
It's not important who alerted them. I thought their response would have been a little more tactful but I suppose once again, my expectations were too high?

It bothered me greatly when I read it
Than do what I do when reading something... Place your emotions on hold and read it from a logical standpoint.

, having just emailed a nice thank you note to my host the day before, stating how great a time I had during my stay. Both guides who were assigned to me were very personable and knowledgeable of the rivers they guide on in the area. .
My guides were also very knowledgeable and all but one, we found very personable. We didn't have an issue with any of the guides. A few little things irked me but hell, I'd recommend any one of these guides to anyone. Well, I would have until I found out that the reason they switched the guides up on us was because they found that we were difficult to deal with!

If you are a novice or and expert fly fishermen, I just can’t see how one can not have a good experience with this guide service.
For the most part, we had no issues with the guides' services.

I can’t understand, no matter how good a fly fisherman one might be, that one would hired a guide service, but doesn’t want any input from the guide to gain valuable knowledge of the waters he fishes. What a waste just to have him row the boat. That is not what a guide does. That was probably the main problem.
You can't understand because you're a different type of fisherman. Again, we made it VERY CLEAR TO EVERYONE INVOLVED WHAT WE WANTED TO DO. IF THAT WAS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, THEY SHOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT WE NOT USE THEIR SERVICE. I wasn't interested in fishing the worm and the turd jig.

I had spoken with four other guests while there, and they were all repeat customers. One has returned for three years straight, and coming back next year for the ‘hopper’ hatch. They must be doing something right.
Everyone we spoke with were also repeat visitors who seemed to be enjoying themselves. WE were not EVERYONE else.

One final thought... I'd recommend that anyone use this shop and make your own judgements. You might find that I'm just a stubborn asshole with nothing better to do but complain about things. I personally know what I want and when told the service can be satisfied, I expect to be satisfied.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that these guides are all Top Notch guides who know the rivers like the back of their hands. Our tips were based on the recommendations from people on this site. After getting friendly with at least 1 of our guides, we asked him what he thought was a good tip at the end of the day. When he told us, we didn't hesitate to accomodate him with that amount... We even took him out to dinner at a place he recommended one night after tipping him. Now we find from the outfitter that the guides thought we were assholes (not in those words).
 
First of all, it is the Blue Anchor, not Blue Whale. Secondly, I can't imagine talking about the teeth or lack thereof a local Montana boy who may not be able to afford the dental work.
Finally, no one at this shop ever asked you if the pennies were all there--it just didn't happen. No one ever told you that you could not return your flies for anything else in the shop. Your father returned $44 worth of flies and bought a $45 sweatshirt. Many of the flies that you and your father returned were not even bought at this shop and several still had the tippet attached to them, where they had been used. I have NEVER had flies returned to this shop. There was definitely a case of nickle and diming and it wasn't us! We included all of your flies in your guide trip, so there was never any reason for you to buy your own flies, except that you thought you knew more about our local rivers than your guides who were either born and raised here or have been professionally guiding on these waters a heck of a lot longer than you when you strolled in to town! We also invited you to a BBQ at our home on our dime, as our guest, along with some other clients. You did NOT have to accept our invitation, and frankly would have been happier in retrospect if you had not. It is quite a coward who sups at someones table and then stabs them in the back. The report form all of the guides was that you were the most difficult client that they had ever had in their boat, EVER, BAR NONE! You think you know it all and can't be guided. The reason you did not fish again with Eli or Seth is that the REFUSED to take you out again. We DO call indicators bobbers and no one ever told you that it was a sure thing that the salomon flies would be holding on until your blessed arrival. If we could predict that, we wouldn't need to be running a fly shop. You could have fished any river you wanted, but you said you wanted to catch fish. We can't make the fish eat flies on top, and when you figure out how to make them eat YOUR dry flies, let us know.

This was obviously written in anger, in a hurry. While understandable at some level, it's still very disappointing. I'm sure you didn't like seeing your shop portrayed in such a negative light, but it's still not right to reply like this. I think everyone here, including me, now has no respect for you and does not believe you.

A reputable, customer focused business would have crafted a reply more along the lines of the following:

We here in Montana were very disheartened to read the feedback you posted in this forum. We take great pride in making sure our guests have the best possible experiences visiting with us. We have a large repeat customer business that includes both experienced and inexperienced fly-fishermen. Our guests satisfaction is the most important thing that we strive for, and as such, we would never condone an employee 'nickle & dime-ing' anyone or exaggerating the fishing conditions! I believe there was a couple of very unfortunate miscommunications that led to a bad experience for you. We don't want that, and we want to work with you to make it right! Thank's for not putting our shop name in your posts, as this is not what we are about. Please give me a call and we can talk about it....in the mean time, I have dropped a package in the mail to you today with a dozen flies and a voucher for .....​

Q.T.
 
Rusty, I was not a plant from the Fly Shop. I was there the same week as Dennis. I did not meet him. I left before the BBQ. After sending a nice thank you note to the host, it disturbed me much when I read Dennis' trip report that I notified the shop owner. I'm a 64 year old man that just wanted to let members of this forum know my experience with this fly shop, in response to what I was reading on this forum. That's it.

I did compose my original posting on a Word Document and then copied, since I wanted to chose my words carefully. This is not my sort of thing. But with the repond I got, that didn't help.

This will be my last posting.
 
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