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  1. #1
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    Beaverkill - drift boats

    Saw a report on Catskill Flies web site of drift boats on the Beaverkill last weekend. I've never heard of that before and it sounds like a bad idea to me. I don't know what part of the river they were on but it sounds like it would be a tough trip to say the least.

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    Yup... I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to drift it. There's so much access and it's just not that big of a stream. I'm wondering if they were in the lowest section using it as a way to get into the East Branch of the Delaware?

    "That wasn't your fly... was it?

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    NJFred, I saw them Friday and Saturday, they were on the river on the Barrel Pool. My guess is they launched somewhere around the Riverside Cafe or maybe Butternut Grove Campground. I remember seeing them there last year too. Probably will not see them this weekend, the rest of the Delaware system is dropping to fishable levels and they should head back to more appropriate waters.
    Gene


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    I see these knuckle heads every year.As they float buy I false cast a dry about two inches from there face! The beaverkill is for wading not floating.


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    I live less than a mile up stream of Juntion Pool, smack dab on the Willowemoc. I sure hope this is not a trend. We need drift boats like a dog needs ticks. Why haven't the local fly shop owners, guides, and such put a stop to this already? I suppose it's because they are not breaking any laws? Can anything be done? Let's get organized NOW! Drift boats, PAlease, sounds like a greed thing to me m.j.romero www.JazzMarkGallery.com

    Mark J. Romero
    www.fudr.org
    607-498-9944
    M&M Fly Fishing
    JazzMark Gallery
    94 Yorktown Road
    Roscoe, N.Y. 12776-5017

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    I don't know what can be done about it but give credit to Catskill Flies who has drawn attention to it and encouraged fishermen to express their feelings about it.


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    The last thing I want to do is ruffle any feathers, but....
    I'm new to fly fishing, but it seems like a slippery slope to walk on to say that there should be no drift boats. Before one can make that statement, he/she should solidify their arguments on all types of fishing choices. For instance, what makes it OK to use a drift boat on one river and not another? I guess it's much like the question why should spinning gear or bait be allowed in one river and not another? Why should we dictate to all fishermen where and/or how they should fish and on what criteria should these decisions be made?
    Conversely, we certainly have flyfishing only stretches of water, should there be wading only stretches? Who then decides when and where?
    It seems that there are people that enjoy using a boat (I never have) to trout fish, I guess to cover more water, to get to areas that are less accessible or maybe even because they are for some physical reason now unable to wade. I guess that the question is why should the choice to use a boat be taken away on THESE rivers? I don't have the answer, I have no self interest one way or the other, so the question is mine. Help me out?

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

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    It's ridiculous. You can drive to any section of the river. The shops that support these floats are making a quick buck from their clients while laughing at them. It takes 20 minutes to drive from Roscoe to the Delaware.


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    My Answer!

    Future, you're right, nobody has said why to "No Driftboats on the Beaverkill." So, I'll try to explain why I'm a bit disturbed by it.

    The Beaverkill is a small river. Can you see 10 drift boats floating through Cairns pool? Yes, boat traffic! Fishermen wading in the river should not have to compete with drift boats on such a small river. What if drift boats were permitted on the Beaverkill. You'd get everyone with a float looking to get into the water. This also includes people who are innexperienced who want to get in on some of the fun. I've heard plenty of stories of beginners not being able to control their single person drift boats and they actually run into the fishermen wading. Drift boats would put fish down for wading fishermen. This is of course not the case on the Delaware system where you don't run into this problem. Sure there's some boat traffic, but drift boat sailors have always been very courteous to me while on the Delaware, either rowing behind me or staying far enough away to not disturb my fishing, this would be virtually impossible on the Beaverkill.

    I guess it's much like the question why should spinning gear or bait be allowed in one river and not another?"
    Trout Conservation! There are many arguments about bait versus fly's, but my opinion is that Bait kills trout. If you're fishing a stocked fishing area and it's legal to keep what you're going to catch, by all means, use whatever floats your boat (no pun intended!). But, the reason for a TCA is to build up a trout population. If you go into a TCA and use bait, surely there will be no more trout. Wouldn't you prefer to catch wild and holdover trout than stocked trout? This brings up another question. Is it really necessary to stock the Beaverkill?


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    Thanks for the input.
    Interesting last question there. Didn't I read somewhere around here (or the OTHER trout site) that stopping the stocking on trout waters (that are catch and release) actually improves the numbers and size of the wild fish (that are successful ) there? Or was that just a dream I had?

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

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    As long as the river can sustain water quality good enough for such trout to live. Low water levels during the summer months can be deadly for Trout. Now couple that with people fishing within these conditions, and that's the end of the fishery. This is why you should not fish in rivers once they hit 70. This puts tremendous stress on Trout.

    Another thing to consider is this. Trout are territiorial. Just picture this. You're driving towards a toll booth, and just before you get there, 3 cars cut in front of you at the last moment causing you to swerve. You eventually make it back into your lane, but you're under a bit of stress because these 3 clowns couldn't figure out what they were doing. Now picture this happening everytime you come to a tollbooth... You'd be pretty stressed out by the time you hit your office. Same thing with a Trout. He/she has a feeding lane. Dump 100 stocked trout in a pool with 10 wild trout / holdover trout, and now you've got competition. The wild trout will have to chase these other stocked trout away causing them to expend much needed energy. Eventually, the Wild Trout will die because he's used all of his energy chasing away the stockies.


  12. #12
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    Dennis all very good points. To answer you question, NO, it isn't. Unfortunately we have a VERY short sighted chamber of commerace here. And the Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum is in bed with the chamber as far as stocking is concerned. So is the president of the local, (BeaMoc) TU chapter. Actually i have helped with the stockings several times, mostly so i would know where those trout had been put in, so as to be able to help clients have a good day of fishing. Somewhat hippocritical i'll admit, but since they were going in anyway....................Personally i am against stocking for the very reasons you mentioned and more. But the C.O.C.here deos not have the forsight to weather the storm and hold out for a better economy once a great wild fish population has been established. At the meeting with the DEC we just had last Sat. i think it was discussed and the figure for holdover trout is 14%. I'll check that out. IMHO what we need to do is stock millions of fingerlings for four years in a row, and then stop stocking altoghether. During that first four years, the already existing wild trout would have a chance to procreate on their own with out being hasseled by hatchery fish. Also of course during this time we would need a ZERO keep rate. And, i would keep in place that zero keep rate in place for 3 more years following the first 4 years of the fingerling stockings. The reason i say millions of fingerlings is because the vast majority will be lost to other fish, merganzers, heron, and other preditors and the harsh winters. But those that did survive and go on to procreate would be a great quality fish, and the beginnings of a quality wild fish population that could sustain itself. Of course this wild fish population could not continue to sustain itself without very strict limits and enforcement. One fish per person per day. And that of course is only in the non-no-kill sections. And we need more no-kill sections. The local chamber of commerace is never going to support that because they do not have the forsight to see that it would take about 7 years to get this established, and they fear the loss of busisness from those that just want to come here and get their fish for the plate and go home. Business people are always afraid of something, have you noticed that? You will get all sorts of opinions about how the BeaMoc cannot sustain a wild trout population and that there will be hardly any fish in the rivers and no one will want to come here. Hogwash. I have seen hundreds of fish survive just fine thank you very much all summer long during drought and very warm temps. by simply hanging out in front of thermal refuges (tributary mouths) and over springs and do just fine, as long as they are not hasseled by moronic local children with worms and or the same types from where ever they come from. We are currently woking with the DEC to enact a new ordinance that closes all fishing above and below any tributary month for 150 ft. once water temps reach 70 degrees. What we need also is more state funding for more DEC police to enforce these rules that i would institute if i had any say in the matter, which i don't. Of course the state is strapped for money as it is, and so the viscious cycle of stocking low quality fish goes on and on and on. The wild fish are being threatened by these fish and the overall quality of the fishing is getting worser and worser, worser. As there becomes more and more people into fly fishing, the situation will soon deteriorate to a point of no return, yet it could all be avoided with a little common sense, yet..............common sense isn't common. The first rule of business is, you have to spend money to make money. Well i say it's the same thing with the local businesses. They would have to weather the storm for the long term good. It's been proven that the brown trout survives better when water temps go up and so we have accepted that we no longer have much of a native trout fishery in the BeaMoc, (although i know where.........but that's another show). So, now that we have a non-native fishery for the most part, can't we at least try to establish a wild trout fishery that can sustain itself? It's been done all over the country in different places and as close as the Main Stem Delaware. Seems the locals only care about satisfying Joe Blow and his six rug rats from Jersey. LOL. but it aint funny. mark j. romero(willowhead) www.JazzMarkGallery.com

    Mark J. Romero
    www.fudr.org
    607-498-9944
    M&M Fly Fishing
    JazzMark Gallery
    94 Yorktown Road
    Roscoe, N.Y. 12776-5017

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