Delaware River Club
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  1. #1
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    Another dam down

    I'm sure this is going to piss off a bunch of the lawn chair bait fishermen.

    https://youtu.be/kRiLPffHiW0

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    Re: Another dam down

    First of three dams to be removed on that river. The other two come out next year. Looks like River Logic got the job. We were asked to bid, but were too busy to handle the current dam removal this summer and passed on it. We are removing a dam on McMichael's Creek as soon as next year.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    greg s is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Re: Another dam down

    Until there is a passive engineering solution to the quarry, Bushkill Creek won't have a path forward. While dam removal is great, it will continue to have de-watering problems every time the pumps fail, which negates remediation of anything below it. Which is not to say dam removal shouldn't be done, it's a good thing. I would just rather see $ spent on a solution to the former problem. I actually like fishing down around the old industrial buildings, it is so unique and counter to the norm to catch wild fish in that environment. OK, so there is an occasional riding mower buried in the bank......


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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by greg s View Post
    Until there is a passive engineering solution to the quarry, Bushkill Creek won't have a path forward. While dam removal is great, it will continue to have de-watering problems every time the pumps fail, which negates remediation of anything below it. Which is not to say dam removal shouldn't be done, it's a good thing. I would just rather see $ spent on a solution to the former problem. I actually like fishing down around the old industrial buildings, it is so unique and counter to the norm to catch wild fish in that environment. OK, so there is an occasional riding mower buried in the bank......
    I agree with you about the quarry, but in no way should the conservation world pay for the fix. I do know a lawsuit has been filed to ensure the Clean Water Act is followed, and my guess is the new(ish) quarry owners will finally find a way to fund an emergency generator which should have been in place long ago. I also place a lot of blame on the state of PA for not forcing compliance for the last or current owner of that quarry.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I agree with you about the quarry, but in no way should the conservation world pay for the fix. I do know a lawsuit has been filed to ensure the Clean Water Act is followed, and my guess is the new(ish) quarry owners will finally find a way to fund an emergency generator which should have been in place long ago. I also place a lot of blame on the state of PA for not forcing compliance for the last or current owner of that quarry.
    I saw an article recently which stated a settlement was agreed to and a back up generator will be installed.

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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    greg s is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I agree with you about the quarry, but in no way should the conservation world pay for the fix. I do know a lawsuit has been filed to ensure the Clean Water Act is followed, and my guess is the new(ish) quarry owners will finally find a way to fund an emergency generator which should have been in place long ago. I also place a lot of blame on the state of PA for not forcing compliance for the last or current owner of that quarry.
    I hear you, and that's the best that can be done for now. But this is mechanical/electrical, and will eventually fail again at some point. And we can all push this on a 2nd/3rd/4th(?) owner of the quarry, but at some point they will sell it or otherwise dispose of it, and it's back to square one. So it's temporary. A long term solution would have to use gravity to be permanent. It's going to take a different approach to find a permanent solution.


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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by greg s View Post
    I hear you, and that's the best that can be done for now. But this is mechanical/electrical, and will eventually fail again at some point. And we can all push this on a 2nd/3rd/4th(?) owner of the quarry, but at some point they will sell it or otherwise dispose of it, and it's back to square one. So it's temporary. A long term solution would have to use gravity to be permanent. It's going to take a different approach to find a permanent solution.
    I'm not sure what you mean about using gravity? The quarry is basically one giant sinkhole, and if they don't pump water back into the river, it disappears into the limestone aquifer below since they have dug so deep into that aquifer. Pumps are mechanical, sure, but they have not shut down due to breakage, they have shut down due to lack of electricity. Either a backup diesel pump or backup generator for any electric pumps would solve their issues long term.

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    Re: Another dam down

    Although the pumps have been shut down on occasion for maintenance and the backup pumps they brought in turned out to not be strong enough.

    https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/new...lls-short.html


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    Re: Another dam down

    They didnít have back up pumps when thecreek dried last October. I believe there was one other event this past spring where it failed and then I recall seeing the article from one of the TU guys where the agreement was made. I will check the Facebook page and see where it stands.
    Quote Originally Posted by FIN-ITE 34 View Post
    Although the pumps have been shut down on occasion for maintenance and the backup pumps they brought in turned out to not be strong enough.

    https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/new...lls-short.html


    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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    Re: Another dam down

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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    greg s is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean about using gravity? The quarry is basically one giant sinkhole, and if they don't pump water back into the river, it disappears into the limestone aquifer below since they have dug so deep into that aquifer. Pumps are mechanical, sure, but they have not shut down due to breakage, they have shut down due to lack of electricity. Either a backup diesel pump or backup generator for any electric pumps would solve their issues long term.
    I hear what you're saying, and I'm not trying to argue with you. But think of Fukushima, and how that unfolded. Multiple failures that were never envisioned. Now think of Chernobyl, and the mitigation to protect the water table, and the engineering solution. Now this isn't a nuclear contamination problem, I get it. But you are still dependent long term on no failures of electrical/mechanical mitigation. Maybe you seal the bottom of the quarry, and maybe that is ridiculous and can't happen, I don't know. But I do know that this type of mitigation will inevitably lead to failures, and you won't see them coming. The solutions currently used are band aids, maybe the best that can be done now, but they are not long term. The ideal long term solution will be passive and simple in design, and will take a different approach to solving the problem.


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    Re: Another dam down

    Quote Originally Posted by greg s View Post
    I hear what you're saying, and I'm not trying to argue with you. But think of Fukushima, and how that unfolded. Multiple failures that were never envisioned. Now think of Chernobyl, and the mitigation to protect the water table, and the engineering solution. Now this isn't a nuclear contamination problem, I get it. But you are still dependent long term on no failures of electrical/mechanical mitigation. Maybe you seal the bottom of the quarry, and maybe that is ridiculous and can't happen, I don't know. But I do know that this type of mitigation will inevitably lead to failures, and you won't see them coming. The solutions currently used are band aids, maybe the best that can be done now, but they are not long term. The ideal long term solution will be passive and simple in design, and will take a different approach to solving the problem.
    My feeling is when states come down hard in situations like this one, things get fixed, they get fixed fast, and they are lasting fixes. No way to plug a working quarry and no legal way to force them to stop digging it out. It's hard to imagine that PA simply doesn't care, but the proof is that it keeps happening with no fix in place, at least from PA DEP.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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