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    Hatch charts and climate change

    I was wondering if anyone sees any correlation between traditional hatch charts and climate change.
    I frequently hear people say the hatches are not what they use to be. .Could it be that times have advanced. Maybe what used to happen in the first weeks of April have move to the third week of April and the fall activity is hotter and maybe the Aug and Sept activity has shifted to
    Oct/Nov Anyone have any thoughts ? I would like to hear from some guides who are on the water a good part of the weeks.

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle Claw View Post
    I was wondering if anyone sees any correlation between traditional hatch charts and climate change.
    I frequently hear people say the hatches are not what they use to be. .Could it be that times have advanced. Maybe what used to happen in the first weeks of April have move to the third week of April and the fall activity is hotter and maybe the Aug and Sept activity has shifted to
    Oct/Nov Anyone have any thoughts ? I would like to hear from some guides who are on the water a good part of the weeks.
    Eagle Claw,

    The noble big oil lobbies have worked hard to debunk the liberal delusion known as "science."

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    Hopefully some of them chime in between spoonfuls of hamburger helper.

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    https://www.fs.usda.gov/ccrc/topics/...climate-change

    this is a good read by the US forest service...Insect decline will affect every other species on the planet. they have been declining for years now as a whole, not just the aquatic ones, birds rely heavily on insects for food and their numbers are shrinking as well, at least that's what the scientists say. I bet some people will have some twisted "facts' to show otherwise. Some insects may thrive while others die off, it seems the balance of nature is being affected and the outcome is unpredictable.

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Way back before most of you were born NYS.sprayed DDT through out the Catskills for the Gypsie Moth(I am not much of a speller). The end result was the killing of most of your major hatches. Sure a few survived and we now have better hatches now then we had back in the Fifties. The same is happening now where everyone is using insecticides around there houses.. The run off goes into the streams and in the long run are killing the insects that live in the stream. I do not think it is because of climate change right now but may happen 30 or 50 years from now. Just my thinking on this subject. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Bill the mailman


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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Pretty sure climate change has nothing to do with the hatches since water temp, and variations in water temp, have more to do with reservoir releases than air temperatures. I would also throw out a theory here that the knotweed infestation plays a role also. It causes the slow widening of the riverbed, and siltation.

    As far as climate change goes, it’s been happening in cycles for the last 4 billion years. To think that humans can have an effect on it one way or the other is laughable. To blame it all on the emission of a gas and ignore every other variable is pretty funny, but looks like a lot of “scientists” are making a pretty good career out of it.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    That's exactly my thoughts on climate change also but you were able to express it far better than I.


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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    Pretty sure climate change has nothing to do with the hatches since water temp, and variations in water temp, have more to do with reservoir releases than air temperatures. I would also throw out a theory here that the knotweed infestation plays a role also. It causes the slow widening of the riverbed, and siltation.

    As far as climate change goes, it’s been happening in cycles for the last 4 billion years. To think that humans can have an effect on it one way or the other is laughable. To blame it all on the emission of a gas and ignore every other variable is pretty funny, but looks like a lot of “scientists” are making a pretty good career out of it.
    I agree with you on climate change, but you lost me with your theory on rock snot widening the river and adding siltation. As a river restoration expert, I am struggling to imagine any scenario where that could be the case.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I agree with you on climate change, but you lost me with your theory on rock snot widening the river and adding siltation. As a river restoration expert, I am struggling to imagine any scenario where that could be the case.
    We're taking knotweed, not didymo. Its a theory (like anthropogenic climate change), but one we can prove/disprove through a few years of observation. Knotweed grows along the banks in spring and summer, but dies back in the winter. The roots are shallow and don't hold the bank as well as something like willow. As the mass of plants dies back in the winter, it temporarily removes a barrier to erosion. Knotweed completely chokes out any other plants, so once it dies back, there's nothing there. Once its gone for the winter, this allows the river to slowly erode those portions of the bank during high-water events into early spring, slowly widening the river bank, making that part of the river more shallow, changing flow down stream as well. Where has fishing actually gotten better since the knot weed arrived?

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    We're taking knotweed, not didymo. Its a theory (like anthropogenic climate change), but one we can prove/disprove through a few years of observation. Knotweed grows along the banks in spring and summer, but dies back in the winter. The roots are shallow and don't hold the bank as well as something like willow. As the mass of plants dies back in the winter, it temporarily removes a barrier to erosion. Knotweed completely chokes out any other plants, so once it dies back, there's nothing there. Once its gone for the winter, this allows the river to slowly erode those portions of the bank during high-water events into early spring, slowly widening the river bank, making that part of the river more shallow, changing flow down stream as well. Where has fishing actually gotten better since the knot weed arrived?
    My bad, I ready Didymo where you wrote knotweed. I do agree about that highly foreign invasive plant and damage it is causing along many rivers as it continues to expand. Any plant that dies off in winter along a stream/river will be unable to hold the banks together in severe storms, causing erosion which does widen rivers.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    My bad, I ready Didymo where you wrote knotweed. I do agree about that highly foreign invasive plant and damage it is causing along many rivers as it continues to expand. Any plant that dies off in winter along a stream/river will be unable to hold the banks together in severe storms, causing erosion which does widen rivers.
    That stuff is a scourge with no cure, once it establishes itself, there's no way to really get rid of it. There are streams that I've been fishing in VT for the last 20yrs where things have noticeably declined because of the knotweed.

    As far as the D goes, I don't get up there to fish as much as I'd like to, spend a lot of time wading so don't cover as much water, but over the years it seems that things have gotten more inconsistent, while the fishing pressure has also increased (in addition to the knotweed being everywhere). Things to me seemed to really go off in the last few years after that one really warm and dry spring. This fall kind of sucked also, and that particular observation is backed up by a guide I know. Maybe the guys there day in day out have a different observation? Having said all of that, I had a good spring season up there, caught all of the fish I covered, so I can't really complain. The Sulphers seemed good this year.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    To be blunt I am very troubled by the methane gas some of you boobs are expending on this thread

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    Re: Hatch charts and climate change

    It has been my understanding that Japanese Knotweed, like Phragmites has such a robust root/rhizome system that which makes it almost impossible to eradicate. Where the top growth dies back every winter season, it is the living root/rhizome system that remains intact and alive that promotes such vigorous regrowth each spring. But in fact as you state all other side effects of the spreading mass on native plant life is correct.
    "Japanese knotweed’s ease of spread and rapid growth from a deep rhizome (root) system was initially prized for planting schemes. However, from an ecological perspective, these plant traits are precisely why it has become a huge problem for native biodiversity and, increasingly, wider society.
    Rapid growth from early in the growing season (February onwards in the UK) excludes most native plants from well-established Japanese knotweed patches (known as “stands”). This is because the dense canopy of leaves shades out other species. This shading effect is amplified as insects do not graze on knotweed plants, and native diseases don’t keep the plant in check either. Knotweed also produces a thick leaf litter, and chemicals that inhibit the germination and growth of native plants. It dominates non-native habitats, displacing native plants and altering how local ecosystems function – for example, in soil nutrient cycling."

    Just a little more methane..........


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