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  1. #13
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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    I also didn't see Sulphurs on the SBR like I have in the past.....caddis seem to hatch well in the evenings...but the Sulphurs on the SBR sucked this year...

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by flyI4 View Post
    The hatches have been bad everywhere, even on the freestones so to me that rules out the reservoirs/water quality as being the issue. The hatches started getting worse in or around the time we had the crazy winter where the hendricksons were coming off in late february. Everything hatched out by early june and it through the bug cycle for a loop. Hatches got even worse from what I saw following the two extremely cold winters we had several years ago that were some of the coldest on record. The west branch had ice on it just a few days before the opening day in 2015 I believe it was, which is unheard of. Anchor ice and just brutal conditions generally I think had an impact on the bug life. Then, last year we saw an extreme drought that left the main stem at 400cfs in the fall and had the beaverkill at 40 cfs for 5 months. These extreme weather conditions that impact flow and generally create volatility in nature are likely factors here as to the bug life diminishing.
    Hatches have not been bad everywhere, at least not where I've been setting up camp this year.

    You should get with your Buddy Jeff Church and ask him for the DEC reports and what he knows about the Water quality coming out of the reservoir than Chime back in.Without a doubt the Reservoir has had an impact the past few years.What I know about Entomol0gy is one thing you don't go from a summer just last year where we had good (not great)Dorothea Hatches and Invarias to what we have now unless an EVENT occurred between than and now.

    The Anchor Ice was in 15 but we still had Sulphurs and Invarias the following Spring so what does that have to do with this year?.They just came a little late.The Beaverkill doesn't belong in this topic since your talking about APPLES and ORANGES 2 completely set of circumstances and Ecosystems


    There are many people in Denial about this Topic.That's one of the Problems.


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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    I also didn't see Sulphurs on the SBR like I have in the past.....caddis seem to hatch well in the evenings...but the Sulphurs on the SBR sucked this year...
    Thats cause they ALL moved down river to the non trout areas....


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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by mudbug201 View Post
    Ding ding. We have a winner.

    Only viable explanation for why hatches have been off across the region in different types of rivers.
    Not very likely. If an organism is not able to adapt and tolerate swings in environmental conditions (like, cold, hot, drought, etc.) it would not have evolved to fill that niche in the environment, period.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    Not very likely. If an organism is not able to adapt and tolerate swings in environmental conditions (like, cold, hot, drought, etc.) it would not have evolved to fill that niche in the environment, period.
    To argue that extreme conditions can't impact hatches ignores history up there. Look at what happened after the 100 year flood in 04? Hug life was non existent for the rest of the year , and horrible the next year as well. It took a few years to get back to peak and some hatches never returned aside from the random bug here and there (tricos in some sections , drakes on the main stem).


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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    Not very likely. If an organism is not able to adapt and tolerate swings in environmental conditions (like, cold, hot, drought, etc.) it would not have evolved to fill that niche in the environment, period.
    haha. Thanks Charles Darwin. Okay, must be the knotweed then.


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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by mudbug201 View Post
    haha. Thanks Charles Darwin. Okay, must be the knotweed then.

    I actually have a couple of Masters Degrees in science, and have been doing it for most of my career, how about you? Let’s look at the facts (oh no, not facts!). There was a time before FUDR when flows on the East and West Branch routinely got into the double digits, the water warmed, and the feast or famine extremes were much greater than they are now. The fish and bugs still lived, people still caught fish.

    And to ignore the impact that knotweed has on the ecosystem is just plain ignorant.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

  11. #20
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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    the fish are doing fine- this season was prob my best season I have ever had and there were more 20-24" fish around this year than I've ever seen in the system. The rivers are healthy . The bugs are not totally gone -I hit a decent sulpher hatch this weekend and saw some of the better hatch activity I've seen all season. That said- bug numbers are definitely down and I think it is normal to see fluctuations in bug life that coincide with extreme weather events. They aren't all dead- just down in numbers . It happens and has happened in the past. The fish are clearly eating well bc they are fat as hell with average fish size bigger than ever.


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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by flyI4 View Post
    the fish are doing fine- this season was prob my best season I have ever had and there were more 20-24" fish around this year than I've ever seen in the system. The rivers are healthy . The bugs are not totally gone -I hit a decent sulpher hatch this weekend and saw some of the better hatch activity I've seen all season. That said- bug numbers are definitely down and I think it is normal to see fluctuations in bug life that coincide with extreme weather events. They aren't all dead- just down in numbers . It happens and has happened in the past. The fish are clearly eating well bc they are fat as hell with average fish size bigger than ever.
    Same experience here. Had a couple of my best days yet this season, in terms of size and number of fish. Just didn't see the massive hatches I've seen up there in past years. (Caddis were the exception, and the fish seemed to be much more keyed in on them this year in the ares where I fish.)

    Trout Nazi your enormous amount of scientific knowledge is clearly overkill for the problem we're trying to solve here. You've brought a bazooka to a knife fight - nobody's talking about the impending disappearance of any species, just a moderate but noticeable decrease in insect activity. So pulling out your evolutionary biology textbook is actually unnecessary. by the way, multiple Masters degrees? your mom must be so proud. Color me impressed

    Anyway, if you'll excuse my ignorance I'm sticking with JC's theory that a few weird consecutive winters and springs have thrown off the reproductive cycle of bugs around the region. Seems plausible. And hey, it's less doom-and-gloom than all this talk about knotweed invasions and toxic sludge laced with heavy metals. (Jeezus.)

    Hopefully, if we have a couple of "normal" seasons in a row, we should theoretically see a normalization of the hatches. If we keep alternating between warm and cold winters and seeing drought conditions in spring, things will probably get even worse.

    (I hate knotweed too though. That shit sucks. I agree it has to have some kind of negative impact on streams and waterways all over the northeast, but I expect it will be more gradual than what we're talking about.)


  13. #22
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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by flyI4 View Post
    To argue that extreme conditions can't impact hatches ignores history up there. Look at what happened after the 100 year flood in 04? Hug life was non existent for the rest of the year , and horrible the next year as well. It took a few years to get back to peak and some hatches never returned aside from the random bug here and there (tricos in some sections , drakes on the main stem).
    JC

    i'm not saying that extreme conditions can't impact Aquatic insects.It surely can.

    I have been researching this situation (the reservoir ) in particular with a group of guys for a few years now.I'm not arguing with you, for God sake I know you since you where really fly14.I respect you and all of your opinions.

    Why don't we set up a float trip with you,Churchy and I this way we can have some fun fishing and we can articulate our points much better in person, in other words in much greater detail on what we have come to find so far.

    Regards Joe.t


  14. #23
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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by mudbug201 View Post
    Same experience here. Had a couple of my best days yet this season, in terms of size and number of fish. Just didn't see the massive hatches I've seen up there in past years. (Caddis were the exception, and the fish seemed to be much more keyed in on them this year in the ares where I fish.)

    Trout Nazi your enormous amount of scientific knowledge is clearly overkill for the problem we're trying to solve here. You've brought a bazooka to a knife fight - nobody's talking about the impending disappearance of any species, just a moderate but noticeable decrease in insect activity. So pulling out your evolutionary biology textbook is actually unnecessary. by the way, multiple Masters degrees? your mom must be so proud. Color me impressed

    Anyway, if you'll excuse my ignorance I'm sticking with JC's theory that a few weird consecutive winters and springs have thrown off the reproductive cycle of bugs around the region. Seems plausible. And hey, it's less doom-and-gloom than all this talk about knotweed invasions and toxic sludge laced with heavy metals. (Jeezus.)

    Hopefully, if we have a couple of "normal" seasons in a row, we should theoretically see a normalization of the hatches. If we keep alternating between warm and cold winters and seeing drought conditions in spring, things will probably get even worse.

    (I hate knotweed too though. That shit sucks. I agree it has to have some kind of negative impact on streams and waterways all over the northeast, but I expect it will be more gradual than what we're talking about.)
    I don't know, you guys were sounding pretty doomy and gloomy there for a bit.

    Now that you've solved this mystery, where will you and Scooby be driving the Mystery Machine to next?

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

  15. #24
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    Re: Fishing Report Catskills

    Quote Originally Posted by mudbug201 View Post
    Same experience here. Had a couple of my best days yet this season, in terms of size and number of fish. Just didn't see the massive hatches I've seen up there in past years. (Caddis were the exception, and the fish seemed to be much more keyed in on them this year in the ares where I fish.)

    Trout Nazi your enormous amount of scientific knowledge is clearly overkill for the problem we're trying to solve here. You've brought a bazooka to a knife fight - nobody's talking about the impending disappearance of any species, just a moderate but noticeable decrease in insect activity. So pulling out your evolutionary biology textbook is actually unnecessary. by the way, multiple Masters degrees? your mom must be so proud. Color me impressed

    Anyway, if you'll excuse my ignorance I'm sticking with JC's theory that a few weird consecutive winters and springs have thrown off the reproductive cycle of bugs around the region. Seems plausible. And hey, it's less doom-and-gloom than all this talk about knotweed invasions and toxic sludge laced with heavy metals. (Jeezus.)

    Hopefully, if we have a couple of "normal" seasons in a row, we should theoretically see a normalization of the hatches. If we keep alternating between warm and cold winters and seeing drought conditions in spring, things will probably get even worse.

    (I hate knotweed too though. That shit sucks. I agree it has to have some kind of negative impact on streams and waterways all over the northeast, but I expect it will be more gradual than what we're talking about.)
    It's not only about Knotweed, unless you have done the research that I have with a few Old timers over the past few years related to the Reservoir.Your guessing.With all due respect This is Science and unless you have some data (we do) to prove otherwise let me know.

    Nazi is right on the money "Trout Nazi your enormous amount of scientific knowledge is clearly overkill" there is no such thing as overkill with Science when it comes to a situation like this.

    That's why it drives some of us nuts that FUDR does spend some money and do an independent study themselves.

    The more knowledge we have (Science) than maybe there is a solution.

    Tight Lines

    Joe T


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