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  1. #1
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    flyI4 is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    the drought that wont end

    Looking at the gauges, and res levels for tailwaters, its insane how long the rivers have been running low in the tri-state area. We are into November now without a turn around in drought conditions and now we are looking at Cannonsville res having a 25% capacity heading into winter. That type of deficit will not be made up with snow- it will take rain and right now we are dangerously close to winter without having made a dent in the deficit. Add in the fact that rivers like the beaverkill are running at a pathetic 60 cfs, and have for 5 months, and u have a scary situation where fish are pooled up and really unable to spawn in any tribs that enter the rivers. We need a wet week, or three, to turn this drought around, and I dont see that happening. Scary stuff looking ahead to next year with res levels so low and unlikely to be fully replenished by next April.

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    According to Donald Trump, he's going to make fly fishing in the Catskills great again.

    Don't you worry

    "Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."
    -John Wayne

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Guy View Post
    According to Donald Trump, he's going to make fly fishing in the Catskills great again.

    Don't you worry


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    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    just saw the news tonight and this winters predictions dont look much better for relieving the drought. The world is in bad shape

    To look good is to fish good

  5. #5
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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Right now the Cannonsville is at 18%.

    I disagree that the snow wont be enough.I've seen this before.Back in December of 2001 the Cannonsville was drawn down to 3%.

    That winter we had about a 6 foot snow pack in the mountains.Adding to that having an average rainfall in March and April resulted in the Cannonsville spilling.

    Just last week Walton got 15 inches of snow,more in the higher elevations.

    It is predicted by some that the Northeast will have a wet snowy winter from El Niņo transitioning to La Niņa.

    It's way to early predict how good or bad things will be like this spring, let mother nature take its course..This isn't the first drought nor will it be the last.

    It was worse in 85/86

    Here is what 2002 on the WB was in April after being at 3% in December of 2001.Part of it was from spilling.

    http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/month...selection_list

    Below the image is a Prediction based on going into a La Niņa pattern this winter.BTW a La Niņa pattern usually results in a wet spring and summer.

    The DEC and a Biologist with a group of interns from one of the universities where on the WB about a month ago.All of the no kill and Stilesvillle where checked for Redds.it was determined that no damage was done to any of the Redds when they dropped the WB to almost nothing for a short period of time and from the extreme YO YO Releases going on than.I'm trying to get my hands on the report if I do I'll post it here.

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Quote Originally Posted by JOE.T View Post
    from El Niņo transitioning to La Niņa.
    But if El Nino transitions to La Nina, what bathroom will she use?

    Lacey: Where'd you get that pistol?
    Blevins: At the gettin' place.

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Hi Joe,

    I agree it is too early to predict the water future.

    But, you know with me there is always at least one but.

    2002 did nearly refill, but it did not spill.

    The thing that puts the rivers in a bad way is the requirement that keeps the rivers in drought designation longer than the rest of the system. Because we now have a basin declared drought the releases are severely restricted. Those restrictions will not be lifted until the reservoirs get to 25 billion gallons above the drought watch line and stay above that line for 15 consecutive days. Typically we will now stay below that line until spring run off in April or even May. That means that Reservoir releases will be critically low through spring. This means that as long as we are below that critical line, the releases on the WB will be no better than 55 cfs until May 1, 85 cfs in May and 135 cfs in the summer. The other reservoirs will also be critically low. Pepacton will be 45, 60 and 75 respectively.

    Before FFMP, the drought releases for Cannonsville were 8 cfs in the winter and 23 cfs in the summer. This was the situation we were in during the Spring of 2002. Cannonsville release was 8 cfs and was scheduled to increase to 23 cfs on June 1st. We were still not above that 25 billion gallons above drought watch for 15 consecutive days line. IT was a very scary time. Stilesville did not get above 50 cfs until mid June!!! Think about that for a minute. Luckily, as you mentioned, it was a fairly wet spring in 2002. This helped keep the rivers at relatively safe levels, except of course for the sections directly below the dams. Even with FFMP now, although we will have some improvement, the rivers will still be critically low.


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  11. #8
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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Hey Jim

    I understand and agree with everything your saying.Back than it was a totally different plan and we didn't have "voids" that where needed post flood's.

    I'm an optimist and I really believe that transitioning into a La Nina will help greatly.With a good snow pack and at least average rainfall in March and April we should be in good shape.

    The good news is as I write this the rivers are full and there is more water coming into the reservoirs than out.it's a start.Lets hope for a lot of snow!

    Thanks for your input

    Joe T



    QUOTE=Big_Spinner;257169]Hi Joe,

    I agree it is too early to predict the water future.

    But, you know with me there is always at least one but.

    2002 did nearly refill, but it did not spill.

    The thing that puts the rivers in a bad way is the requirement that keeps the rivers in drought designation longer than the rest of the system. Because we now have a basin declared drought the releases are severely restricted. Those restrictions will not be lifted until the reservoirs get to 25 billion gallons above the drought watch line and stay above that line for 15 consecutive days. Typically we will now stay below that line until spring run off in April or even May. That means that Reservoir releases will be critically low through spring. This means that as long as we are below that critical line, the releases on the WB will be no better than 55 cfs until May 1, 85 cfs in May and 135 cfs in the summer. The other reservoirs will also be critically low. Pepacton will be 45, 60 and 75 respectively.

    Before FFMP, the drought releases for Cannonsville were 8 cfs in the winter and 23 cfs in the summer. This was the situation we were in during the Spring of 2002. Cannonsville release was 8 cfs and was scheduled to increase to 23 cfs on June 1st. We were still not above that 25 billion gallons above drought watch for 15 consecutive days line. IT was a very scary time. Stilesville did not get above 50 cfs until mid June!!! Think about that for a minute. Luckily, as you mentioned, it was a fairly wet spring in 2002. This helped keep the rivers at relatively safe levels, except of course for the sections directly below the dams. Even with FFMP now, although we will have some improvement, the rivers will still be critically low.[/QUOTE]


  12. #9
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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Nothin' like a good ol' drought to bring out the ghosts of forums past...

    Hey... wait a second....

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

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  14. #10
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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    Nothin' like a good ol' drought to bring out the ghosts of forums past...

    Hey... wait a second....
    This site is so dead, we'll take anything we can get these days....even another post about GB magazine

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    This site is so dead, we'll take anything we can get these days....even another post about GB magazine
    GB MAGAZINE!!??!!

    I thought that fizzled...

    How've YOU been? Killed your share of critters this fall?

    Is Cabarle dead? I don't read the obits from down your way... Haven't seen a post from him in ages...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  16. #12
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    Re: the drought that wont end

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    GB MAGAZINE!!??!!

    I thought that fizzled...

    How've YOU been? Killed your share of critters this fall?

    Is Cabarle dead? I don't read the obits from down your way... Haven't seen a post from him in ages...
    We had a very small camp of only 3 of us this year. We had an 8, a 6 and a 5 point all down and back in camp hanging from the barn by 10 am on opening day. Were in town by noon for some hot wings and beer and then just hung out at camp and watched the snow fly that night after it being 67 and sunny Saturday afternoon. Best camp ever. I got fairly near your place on the way home. I don't think I've gone the same way twice up there for reasons only known to Sally, my GPS. I really like it up that way!

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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