Delaware River FFMP/OST: the good, the bad .....

[golden beetle]

Beetle Stop

Seriously dude stop.

You want to spout off on the forum and throw out snarky comments just don't need complain when they come back at you. The only thing you are good at is deflecting the issue. I clearly stated tony care about the river but my post is very clear. You would be hard pressed to disagree. As for your alternative solution, you realize NYC had applied a years ago for a waiver not to build a filtration system and was granted one by the eps. Now you want to have them build a desalination plant. All so they won't take more water from the reservoir. This is not a serious proposal you boob

San Diego has built a desalination plant, with an Israeli company, that will come online next year (2016).

Lockheed Martin claims to have better technology.

Graphene nanotechnology makes desalination 100 times more efficient | Green Prophet

[Thursthouse]

Wanted: Someone to show me how to set up to do video in my office, probably with the ability to show the monitor while I jabber on about what is on the screen.

jim

With all the IT guys and guys into making videos and productions, someone's gotta be willing to help out...

[golden beetle]

With all the IT guys and guys into making videos and productions, someone's gotta be willing to help out...

Yes, there are major players on NEFF who could help.

Beaver could do the video production.

And GB Mag could distribute it exclusively, through my media empire.

[TR]

Ok Jim I'll be there you name the place,If it's just you and I that show up we'll go fish and chat on the river.

JOE.T

-------

Good morning.

Jim shouldn't have any trouble finding a place for his webinar or video presentation.

Currently there are plenty of commercial vacancies in Hancock.

We should know. Both Jim and I are realtors.

By the way, here are the two videos:


Upper Delaware Council


Jim Serio / Peter Kolesar Presentation of the FFMP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=w9DDXWjOSyI



--------
The Upper Delaware Council's monthly June 2013 meeting, which included a presentation and question and answers from Thomas Murphy, P.E. of the New York City Department of Enviromental Protection, can be viewed as a video and accessed at:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYVUNqzk754



Please note that this was the first time in the UDC's history of twenty -five years that NYC DEP attended as a guest.


Topics include:


The New York City Reservoirs (i.e. Cannonsville / WB Del and Pepacton / EB Del)
The Upper Delaware River System
Cold water release programs
FFMP

[Big_Spinner]

Hi All,

Just wondered if anyone had a chance to check out the excel file I attached above.

I want to see if it makes sense to anyone and see if there are questions.

Jim

[GARYB]

Hi All,

Just wondered if anyone had a chance to check out the excel file I attached above.

I want to see if it makes sense to anyone and see if there are questions.

Jim

I understand the figures, but they need labels, which figures go with which river?

[JOE.T]

-------

Good morning.

Jim shouldn't have any trouble finding a place for his webinar or video presentation.

Currently there are plenty of commercial vacancies in Hancock.

We should know. Both Jim and I are realtors.

By the way, here are the two videos:


Upper Delaware Council


Jim Serio / Peter Kolesar Presentation of the FFMP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=w9DDXWjOSyI



--------
The Upper Delaware Council's monthly June 2013 meeting, which included a presentation and question and answers from Thomas Murphy, P.E. of the New York City Department of Enviromental Protection, can be viewed as a video and accessed at:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYVUNqzk754



Please note that this was the first time in the UDC's history of twenty -five years that NYC DEP attended as a guest.


Topics include:


The New York City Reservoirs (i.e. Cannonsville / WB Del and Pepacton / EB Del)
The Upper Delaware River System
Cold water release programs
FFMP

Tony

You'll be there with Jim and I ,Right ?

Anyone ?

Bueller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6f1MKpLGM

[JOE.T]

Just to add to your thoughts...
The guy gets it from all the folks who just can't be satisfied... and he responds to their barbed questions calmly and matter of factly.... over and over and over again. I don't know how he does it.

And on a personal note, I was headed west some time ago and realized very late I was going to be on a plane and I didn't own a 3 or 4 piece rod. Jim graciously offered to let me borrow one of his. I still have it... Just kidding... But, what a nice thing to do...

Hey John

Since your such an advocate for the wild trout fishery, I can't imagine you wont be there at Jim's
Seminar?

Hopefully I'll see you and some others there as well.

Tight Lines

Joe.T

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Tony,

I think what you mean to ask, "why is the release so low when we have a nearly full reservoir?"

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but let me know if that is it.

The answer is that NYC does need to manage for water supply. They are overly conservative in their estimates and management.

Flows are low because it is a dry year and NYC wants to keep as close to full as they can, if the dry period continues.

The excel spreadsheet I sent out before I think illustrates the two ways that NYC can slant this to their benefit without anyone asking why?? Could you follow the spreadsheet?

NYC routinely overestimates their diversion in the calculation and this reduces the "available water" for release to the river.

As conditions change, NYC does not change the summary for weeks at a time, thus delaying what may be entry into a more robust table.

For your other question, the answer is yes, I helped to design the framework of the FFMP tables. The tables were populated in the current version of FFMP/OST from the "White Paper" that was a joint venture between NYS DEC and PA Fish and Boat.

Testing of the model showed that after some revisions we would operate in table F or G about 70-70% of the time. While one could then say, well this must be one of the times we are in the other 25-30%, but I do not think the answer is that simple. It is my belief that NYC DEP has modified the rules such that we are not in the higher tables as often. This is difficult to test, so I still come back to more transparency from NYC DEP.

Let me know if all of this has helped to answer your question.

jim

[golden beetle]

Hi Tony,

I think what you mean to ask, "why is the release so low when we have a nearly full reservoir?"

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but let me know if that is it.

The answer is that NYC does need to manage for water supply. They are overly conservative in their estimates and management.

Flows are low because it is a dry year and NYC wants to keep as close to full as they can, if the dry period continues.

The excel spreadsheet I sent out before I think illustrates the two ways that NYC can slant this to their benefit without anyone asking why?? Could you follow the spreadsheet?

NYC routinely overestimates their diversion in the calculation and this reduces the "available water" for release to the river.

As conditions change, NYC does not change the summary for weeks at a time, thus delaying what may be entry into a more robust table.

For your other question, the answer is yes, I helped to design the framework of the FFMP tables. The tables were populated in the current version of FFMP/OST from the "White Paper" that was a joint venture between NYS DEC and PA Fish and Boat.

Testing of the model showed that after some revisions we would operate in table F or G about 70-70% of the time. While one could then say, well this must be one of the times we are in the other 25-30%, but I do not think the answer is that simple. It is my belief that NYC DEP has modified the rules such that we are not in the higher tables as often. This is difficult to test, so I still come back to more transparency from NYC DEP.

Let me know if all of this has helped to answer your question.

jim

Jim, I dont blame NYC for their conservatism.

I just wonder if this event, which doesnt seem particularly extreme to me, doesnt lead to the conclusion that NYC shouldnt seek to lessen it dependency on a source that has it in a state of austerity, when the reservoirs are at 98 percent.

Are there any plans for alternative sources, besides the Croton coming back online?

Again, I dont blame NYC for its stinginess, if 98 percent truly isnt enough for the city to be secure with its water supply.

But I'm shakin my head...

Because this is a seasonal economy out there, and some folks could lose half the season's worth of work from this, which seems pretty extreme considering the conditions are not extraordinary as not to expect this again... and again.

[mudbug201]

Just to add to your thoughts...
The guy gets it from all the folks who just can't be satisfied... and he responds to their barbed questions calmly and matter of factly.... over and over and over again. I don't know how he does it.

Yeah, just to add to the chorus... I haven't known Jim as long as JC or FF, but there are some guys who you meet and you know right off the bat that they have integrity. I'm probably not one of those people. But Jim is.

Whether or not you are in support of the work he's done on behalf of the fishery (I am, but everybody has to make up their own mind) you can't question his work ethic or his intentions. The ad hominem attacks just come across as childish. Especially when we all agree about the objective, and much of the dispute revolves around highly technical differences in how we think it should be achieved.

[golden beetle]

Yeah, just to add to the chorus... I haven't known Jim as long as JC or FF, but there are some guys who you meet and you know right off the bat that they have integrity. I'm probably not one of those people. But Jim is.

Whether or not you are in support of the work he's done on behalf of the fishery (I am, but everybody has to make up their own mind) you can't question his work ethic or his intentions. The ad hominem attacks just come across as childish. Especially when we all agree about the objective, and much of the dispute revolves around highly technical differences in how we think it should be achieved.

Good to be polite and have some humility, especially in regards to the people who've put in effort here.

I cant comment on Jim personally tho.

Because Jim hasn't yet met the Beetle.