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  1. #37
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    I would think the Manasquan would not be ideal for a sustainable fishery but could do wel with a consistent planting of the right brown trout.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    There have never been YOY electro fished, so no. It teaches an important lesson which is that if you want a true sea run program, you need to stock sea run fish, not 100+ year old hatchery mutants in hopes they will find the saltwater, fatten up, then swim back upstream to spawn. Same goes for attempting to get the Toms River into sea run brookies using Nashua strain fish from Pequest. You would need proven salters from out of state to even attempt to get a sea run program going.


    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

  2. #38
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    flyI4 is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    The stream does holdover fish well. Its such an ugly stream that most flyfisherman dont want to even attempt fishing it unless they live nearby, but in my experience there were a lot of holdover fish in that stream most years that I would catch into july, and then again in the fall when temps cooled down. The stream has a ton of structure and the fish have many places to hide that are literally impossible to fish unless u want to lose 100 flies trying to entice one out. For that reason I often used streamers there and just stripped them along the structure and fish would swipe at them. Occasionally I would find a fish rising but very rare. If u look- they also stock a ton of fish in the stream so its not a surprise that some hang around for the entire year.


  3. #39
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by flyI4 View Post
    The stream does holdover fish well. Its such an ugly stream that most flyfisherman dont want to even attempt fishing it unless they live nearby, but in my experience there were a lot of holdover fish in that stream most years that I would catch into july, and then again in the fall when temps cooled down. The stream has a ton of structure and the fish have many places to hide that are literally impossible to fish unless u want to lose 100 flies trying to entice one out. For that reason I often used streamers there and just stripped them along the structure and fish would swipe at them. Occasionally I would find a fish rising but very rare. If u look- they also stock a ton of fish in the stream so its not a surprise that some hang around for the entire year.
    Yeah I agree it holds fish over. I just meant I never got the impression fish could reproduce very well given the bottom was generally muddy. I used to fish it when I working in fort Monmouth. I also fished the metedeconck a few times but was disappointed with the amount of trash on that stream. This was about 20 years ago so I would imagine it's worse today

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Mid March, and the weather is changing, as predicted. Still sticking to late April.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Here is a study on the effects of road salt conducted by the state of Maryland.

    Road salt is one of the leading contributors to the decline of May flies. This equates the more snow storms in a winter the more road salt used. The more road salt used the less Mayflies survive to hatch. I was concerned by the brook trout finding. Something TU should do similar research on.

    http://www.dnr.state.md.us/streams/p...adSalt2013.pdf

    Page 9
    Toxicity also depends on length of exposure. Long-term exposure is more
    harmful than acute exposure. Mayflies, stoneflies, and caddissflies are the most salt sensitive
    stream insects
    stream insects (Hartman et al. 2005; Pond et al. 2008; Pond 2010). Certain
    dragonflies, crustaceans, beetles, and true flies tolerate the highest salt concentrations


    Page 10
    The group of benthic macroinvertebrates in Maryland streams that tends to be most
    sensitive to pollution and watershed disturbance is the mayflies. The richness (number of
    genera) within this insect order declined with increasing chloride concentration at MBSS
    sites (Figure 7). Almost no mayflies were found in streams with chloride concentrations
    greater than 500 mg/L.



    Page 11
    brook trout are only present in streams with
    chloride levels less than 280 mg/L (Figure 8). The highest densities of brook trout are
    found in streams with low chloride concentrations (less than 100 mg/L).

    "Hatchery fish have the same colors, but they always seem muted like bad reproductions of great art." Bill Barich

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  7. #42
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by tomfly View Post
    Here is a study on the effects of road salt conducted by the state of Maryland.

    Road salt is one of the leading contributors to the decline of May flies. This equates the more snow storms in a winter the more road salt used. The more road salt used the less Mayflies survive to hatch. I was concerned by the brook trout finding. Something TU should do similar research on.

    http://www.dnr.state.md.us/streams/p...adSalt2013.pdf

    Page 9
    Toxicity also depends on length of exposure. Long-term exposure is more
    harmful than acute exposure. Mayflies, stoneflies, and caddissflies are the most salt sensitive
    stream insects
    stream insects (Hartman et al. 2005; Pond et al. 2008; Pond 2010). Certain
    dragonflies, crustaceans, beetles, and true flies tolerate the highest salt concentrations


    Page 10
    The group of benthic macroinvertebrates in Maryland streams that tends to be most
    sensitive to pollution and watershed disturbance is the mayflies. The richness (number of
    genera) within this insect order declined with increasing chloride concentration at MBSS
    sites (Figure 7). Almost no mayflies were found in streams with chloride concentrations
    greater than 500 mg/L.



    Page 11
    brook trout are only present in streams with
    chloride levels less than 280 mg/L (Figure 8). The highest densities of brook trout are
    found in streams with low chloride concentrations (less than 100 mg/L).

    I've got wonder though if this will have any impact at all on the upper D hatches. You have 4 relatively large rivers located in a sparsley populated area. How much salt was actually applied up there? Also, lets assume that very little of it got in the water durring the coldest part of the winter because there was little melt. So when it does melt, you have additional dilution factor in addition to the rivers being relatively large. There may be a transient spike in salt given that most of it probably gets washed in with the first good melt, but does it even matter given the dilution factor of more water volume moving into a swiftly moving river? I doubt it.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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  9. #43
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    what if they used more sand, like the hippies in Vermont.....would the sand running off into the creeks be just as bad by smothering the bugs?.....how about we just shut down everything when it snows, then the bugs can live...I mean Rusty almost got shut down on the Musky because of some fucking Dragonflies....

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    I've got wonder though if this will have any impact at all on the upper D hatches. You have 4 relatively large rivers located in a sparsley populated area. How much salt was actually applied up there? Also, lets assume that very little of it got in the water durring the coldest part of the winter because there was little melt. So when it does melt, you have additional dilution factor in addition to the rivers being relatively large. There may be a transient spike in salt given that most of it probably gets washed in with the first good melt, but does it even matter given the dilution factor of more water volume moving into a swiftly moving river? I doubt it.
    Probably true. In the future that may not be. As population grows and expands in to rural areas so will the use of salt .
    page 2

    In most
    areas, concentrations of salt in surface waters near roads exceed ambient stream and
    groundwater concentrations. The rate of export (flushing) of salt from ground and
    surface waters is usually slower than the rate of input. Ambient salt concentrations will
    likely continue to increase until input concentrations approximately equal ambient
    concentrations

    Page 5
    Interstate 68 is a major roadway running through Garrett County that
    is treated with salt in the winter. The Savage River specific conductance readings tended
    to be highest following snow fall events and were lowest when stream flow was higher
    (presumably due to dilution). During summer low flow periods (when the potential for
    dilution is at its lowest), the average conductivity remained above 330
    uS/cm



    "Hatchery fish have the same colors, but they always seem muted like bad reproductions of great art." Bill Barich

  11. #45
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    what if they used more sand, like the hippies in Vermont.....would the sand running off into the creeks be just as bad by smothering the bugs?.....how about we just shut down everything when it snows, then the bugs can live...I mean Rusty almost got shut down on the Musky because of some fucking Dragonflies....
    Don't kid yourself, they use a ton of salt, thats why every car up there is a rust bucket within 5 years. They switch to sand when the temperature gets really low. And they may give you the impression that they're a bunch of tree-hugging hippies up there, but their river and fisheries management is aweful. They could actually learn a thing or 2 from Jersey.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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  13. #46
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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    Here is the conversion 1000 ÁS/cm = 640 mg/L = 640 ppm

    "Hatchery fish have the same colors, but they always seem muted like bad reproductions of great art." Bill Barich

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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    I have no idea what i'm talking about, but let's say 4/20 this year

    Lacey: Where'd you get that pistol?
    Blevins: At the gettin' place.

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    Re: Late Hatch Prediction

    My solunar table of insect reproduction ( which can be purchased at WBDluver.com) or from MicFly one week after he purchasers it, says April 15

    To look good is to fish good

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