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  1. #73
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    No, you are correct. The old Highlands Council online mapping system showed it in Planning. The new(ish) site clearly shows that they made the delineation on the east/south bank of the river and that section is clearly in Preservation. The dopey contractors just needed to answer about 3 questions and send a full set of plans and everything that goes to the DEP to the Highlands Council via certified mail and made a simple request to Land Use with a new LURP form (landowner consent form) and their permit application would have remained in the system moving forward. Since they withdrew their GP-16 permit application entirely for the new GP-1, they reset the clock and it will take at least another 90 days (always takes more time). At least they are finally doing a mussel survey. But of course that will only lead to design changes to work around mussel colonies and since the design work is done, that will be more change orders and more $$.

    You must feel so good living in Oakland as a taxpayer
    As an Oakland taxpayer, I'm normally against projects who's main purpose is to appease a vocal minority...

    In this case, as a Ramapo fisher, I was part of the (not so vocal) minority, and had hopes.
    Unfortunately, this may turn out to be a bigger fiasco than the million dollar tennis courts/sinkhole, or the library that needed to be renovated twice (so far).

    In hindsight, a local government may not be the right entity to do conservation projects.
    TU ,MWA & partners, did it right on the Musky, because that's their mission.
    Shannon's and the Raritan Inn did it right on the Raritan, because it;s good for business.
    All a politician wants is bragging rights



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  3. #74
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    On the agenda for the next council meeting:
    Borough of Oakland
    Bergen County, New Jersey
    Resolution 17-247
    Change Order 2-Ramapo River Restoration Project
    ________________________________________________
    WHEREAS, a contract was awarded to T.R. Weniger, Inc., in the amount of $ 369,800 for the Ramapo River Restoration Project; and

    WHEREAS, the following Change Order #2 has been requested:
    Archaeological Reconnaissance Survey $ 9,975

    WHEREAS, the Change Order has been reviewed and recommended by the Borough’s Engineer, Boswell McClave Engineering; and

    WHEREAS, the Chief Financial Officer has certified that funds are available in Account # C-04-56-691-401;

    NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Mayor and Council of the Borough
    of Oakland hereby authorize Change Order #2 in the amount of $ 9,975 for a new total contract amount of $ 391,975 .



  4. #75
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Notice this is their 2nd change order. More coming. I can absolutely promise you that when they are done, assuming they ever do this project, it will be far more costly than the bid I gave when I was with brand X two years ago. And I wouldn't have needed a single change order because I know what I am doing. This doesn't include, of course, the freshwater mussel survey that will costs tens of thousands of dollars, but which the town will pick up and not the contractor. I had one of NJ's foremost authorities in the area of freshwater mussels - the same guy that surveyed the mighty "Po" for the Division when he worked there - all lined up to do a cheap mussel survey for the project......

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  5. #76
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Pete - the archaeological survey required now of the contractor is an attempt to identify which stone weirs in the river are made by native Indians. You can't determine which ones were built by the natives and which ones by white man. I've had these same conversations with SHPO and Land Use and they have always backed down because they have zero data on these structures themselves.

    It is hard to watch the incompetence on my end since I truly wanted to see the river restored properly and that was something I had helped the Borough with when I was still very much working for TU without any profit motive as I have today. Also, learned that at least one councilman is getting very antsy about this ever moving forward. He was surprised to hear that a freshwater mussel survey will be required and that the borough has known for at least 3 years that the survey would be required. That still hasn't been shared with the public, by the way. That survey will lead to the next change order if the eel weirs don't create another change order first.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  6. #77
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    Pete - the archaeological survey required now of the contractor is an attempt to identify which stone weirs in the river are made by native Indians. You can't determine which ones were built by the natives and which ones by white man. I've had these same conversations with SHPO and Land Use and they have always backed down because they have zero data on these structures themselves.

    It is hard to watch the incompetence on my end since I truly wanted to see the river restored properly and that was something I had helped the Borough with when I was still very much working for TU without any profit motive as I have today. Also, learned that at least one councilman is getting very antsy about this ever moving forward. He was surprised to hear that a freshwater mussel survey will be required and that the borough has known for at least 3 years that the survey would be required. That still hasn't been shared with the public, by the way. That survey will lead to the next change order if the eel weirs don't create another change order first.
    The locals claiming native American heritage appear to be of very mixed ancestry. If they built a weir, it could be blamed on just about any ethnicity you cared to point a finger at (except maybe Hawaiian).

    My stepsons used to find stone arrowheads in the river. They should be quiet about that... Right?

    Eel weirs? When I was a kid living in the Ho-ho-kus Brook/Saddle River watershed, I once caught an eel upstream from a couple of dams that would have stopped a salmon, but I wondered if the Great Falls, in Paterson, would be too much for them to reach the Ramapo (I've speculated that they were for spawning Suckers).

    BTW: The most significant weir, is the one we already messed with (re Rock Rolling). It's not in Oakland. That's actually Mahwah.... The one near the Lakeshore Drive cul-de-sac, was claimed by Jeff Pol (a local white person), he claims he made it when he was a kid who wanted to make a "deeper hole" to fish in.

    Re: Shared with the public. They stopped televising the council meetings. The Minutes posted on the borough website are usually (at least) two months out of date..... and a couple of months mysteriously never got posted. Progress reports on this project are normally in the "liaison reports", so they won't show on the "agenda". They didn't hide this change order, but I wonder if the first one was discussed and passed during the "missing months".


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  8. #78
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    In NJ, the topic of eel weirs comes up with SHPO more than most probably realize with these projects. I simply hop on Google Earth and move the dates of the photos back over the years looking at the weir being discussed and nearly every time, it has suddenly popped up where no stone weir had been previously or their shape changes frequently due to man's adding/subtracting/changing them constantly. Mostly in a vain effort to create deep pool habitat.

    As for eels, they can climb up more or less any dam, so the Great Falls waterfall wouldn't surprise me if they can get over it.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  9. #79
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    RE: SHPO

    If Jeff (when he was a kid) makes a weir/dam, in a misguided attempt to make a fishing hole, and it diverts too much water against the east bank, causing erosion (the issue that got you involved in Oakland), that's a bad thing that we should discourage and possibly remediate.
    BUT...
    If a native American did it, it's history that must be preserved?
    No wonder the people in Mahwah are being such jerks about the Ramapough encampment.


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  11. #80
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    There is no rhyme nor reason to hysterical, I mean historical folks and their desire to keep things as they were even if those things still wreak havoc on the environment. And the whole idea of being "native" is another joke. Indians crossed over a land bridge from Russia by foot and are "native", but Europeans that sailed here are not. Neither evolved from primates on our continent. Make any sense to you? Doesn't to me.

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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    Indians crossed over a land bridge from Russia by foot and are "native", but Europeans that sailed here are not. Neither evolved from primates on our continent. Make any sense to you? Doesn't to me.
    If they were the first people here, I would say, they were "native", until they were mostly exterminated by those Europeans in the boats....but some recent discoveries would suggest they were here long before we thought....
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1118104010.htm
    Makes sense to me...

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  13. #82
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    It appears that members of an exotic species have been granted native status, simply because they invaded a long time before the more recent specimens. Any damage they did to the river becomes a historical artifact.

    http://www.northjersey.com/story/new...vey/625776001/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The picture in the article is labeled in a manner that might lead readers to believe that it shows a "native American artifact".... I suspect that the reporter just took a picture of the river from a convenient bridge, to avoid getting her feet wet, and/or avoid any bushwhacking.

    That particular bridge is near the Crystal Lake area, where another controversy is ongoing. She could easily get pictures for both stories in that area. http://www.northjersey.com/story/new...uit/599269001/ (I told Brian to tear down that damn 5 years ago, but he wants permits, the owners permission, and all that crap).


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  15. #83
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    "Kunze said he is hopeful the project can still be completed by the end of the year.“We were hoping to be in the river already, but regardless, our engineer believes we may still be able to complete the work by the end of the year,” said Kunze. “As with most projects, the bulk of the time is spent on planning, design and permitting. The actual construction activity is on the order of one to two months.”

    Lying sack of you-know-what. He knows full well a freshwater mussel survey is required and that will be yet another delay. If they wait much longer on that, they will have to wait until mid May next year due to cold water driving the mussels into the bottom and rendering them unable to be seen and counted. The explanation in the article of what the project is or was supposed to be makes my head hurt and tells me that the Borough Admin no longer has even a small grasp on what it is they are doing. He was told "restoring proper sediment transportation", not "The preservation project involves bank stabilization and the creation of current-slowing shoals along a 2.6-mile stretch of the Ramapo River". I feel bad for anyone that loves the river if this project goes through. I pray that I am wrong.

    I have to say, I have never heard of the term, "current-slowing shoals". Someone flat out made that up because it is not a thing, at least in river channel restoration. Also, there was zero talk about any bank stabilization, that started after the contract was awarded and I believe because the contractor does have experience building rip rap and metal walls on stream bends to keep the banks from further erosion, but all on non trout waters where such things are permissible. They are not in trout waters.


    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  16. #84
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    First they have to wait until this cost increase is not longer fresh in our minds.....Then they'll tell us about the mussels, and blame the DEP for the additional cost and delay.


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