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  1. #13
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stenacron man View Post
    If so I now believe that Kurt cleared this one up as M pudicum.

    It is the same photo I just checked, Ha "JohnNY"


    I thought it was you...
    Welcome...

    M pudicum?

    But didn't you guys say it was Stenacron Carolina...

    I mean, look at those eyes set so far apart...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  2. #14
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Quote Originally Posted by tomfly View Post
    I believe that is a little yellow quill (Leucrocuta hebe)
    Where did you take that Pic FF?
    Forty feet or so from my backdoor!

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  3. #15
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stenacron man View Post
    Notice the body posture is incorrect. It is a Maccaffertium pudicum. Leucorcuta are more closely related to Stenacron. Kurt, Taxon, and myself agreed that this one is pudicum on Trout nut.

    http://www.troutnut.com/topic/8055/March-BrownQuill-Gordon
    I stand corrected

    "Hatchery fish have the same colors, but they always seem muted like bad reproductions of great art." Bill Barich

  4. #16
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    I thought it was you...
    Welcome...

    M pudicum?

    But didn't you guys say it was Stenacron Carolina...

    I mean, look at those eyes set so far apart...

    Ya the one with the long blackish gray tails that was yellow was the carolina, the other one is pudicum

    This is the carolina
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	carolina.jpg 
Views:	154 
Size:	97.3 KB 
ID:	11021


  5. #17
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stenacron man View Post

    [/COLOR]Ya the one with the long blackish gray tails that was yellow was the carolina, the [COLOR=#333333]other one is pudicum
    I mentioned this in the thread:
    Those various photos are showing the SAME bugs.
    It seemed as if when they first become spinners, they are all darker and with time, they all lose the pigment in their bodies but their tails darken...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  6. #18
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    They are two different bugs the eye spacing is way different + many other things. And they are both in the spinner stage.




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	picture_820_full.jpg 
Views:	304 
Size:	199.1 KB 
ID:	11022 this one is the Maccaffertium pudicum

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	carolina.jpg 
Views:	267 
Size:	97.3 KB 
ID:	11023this one is Stenacron carolina


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  7. #19
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    I am going to try this another way to show that they are not even the same genus. First lets review the Stenacron carolina. As you might know already from trout nut I am in the writing possess for a book called -- The complete history of the genus Stenacron 1839 forward. I am going to show you some illustrations that are for the book of the species Stenacron carolina. Then I will show you an illustration form biosystematic revision to the genus Stenonema 1979 Bednarik & McCafferty figure 84 for pudicum. I marked the illustration with red arrows. They are what are referred to as spiracular spots. The mayfly on the leaf with the subimago exuvia or skin next to it is a spinner. A spinner is easily defined by having transparent wings or as properly call hyaline. Both the yellow one and the one on the leaf have wings I can see through mean they are both in the spinner state. + notice the yellow one does not have spiracular spots on the sides of the abdomen. All species that have these spots have them through their entire life cycle, not just at one point in time or another, they are genetically fixed you might say to a species.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Stenacron carolina

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gjgjcjc.jpg 
Views:	157 
Size:	389.9 KB 
ID:	11024Click image for larger version. 

Name:	khkf.jpg 
Views:	150 
Size:	125.6 KB 
ID:	11025Click image for larger version. 

Name:	caroloina.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	275.7 KB 
ID:	11026Click image for larger version. 

Name:	car.jpg 
Views:	147 
Size:	114.4 KB 
ID:	11027

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maccaffertium pudicum




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pudi.jpg 
Views:	146 
Size:	95.2 KB 
ID:	11028



    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________-


  8. #20
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    All I can say is.....
    I am sure glad fish, trout in particular, can't speak a lick of latin...............

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to lightenup For This Useful Post:

    dcabarle (09-20-2014)

  10. #21
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    See the difference between them now


  11. #22
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Stenacron man View Post
    I am going to try this another way to show that they are not even the same genus. First lets review the Stenacron carolina. As you might know already from trout nut I am in the writing possess for a book called -- The complete history of the genus Stenacron 1839 forward. I am going to show you some illustrations that are for the book of the species Stenacron carolina. Then I will show you an illustration form biosystematic revision to the genus Stenonema 1979 Bednarik & McCafferty figure 84 for pudicum. I marked the illustration with red arrows. They are what are referred to as spiracular spots. The mayfly on the leaf with the subimago exuvia or skin next to it is a spinner. A spinner is easily defined by having transparent wings or as properly call hyaline. Both the yellow one and the one on the leaf have wings I can see through mean they are both in the spinner state. + notice the yellow one does not have spiracular spots on the sides of the abdomen. All species that have these spots have them through their entire life cycle, not just at one point in time or another, they are genetically fixed you might say to a species.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Stenacron carolina

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gjgjcjc.jpg 
Views:	157 
Size:	389.9 KB 
ID:	11024Click image for larger version. 

Name:	khkf.jpg 
Views:	150 
Size:	125.6 KB 
ID:	11025Click image for larger version. 

Name:	caroloina.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	275.7 KB 
ID:	11026Click image for larger version. 

Name:	car.jpg 
Views:	147 
Size:	114.4 KB 
ID:	11027

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maccaffertium pudicum




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pudi.jpg 
Views:	146 
Size:	95.2 KB 
ID:	11028



    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________-
    ...

    I don't know what to tell you...
    Tell ya what...
    show me photos of both of these species (other than mine)where they BOTH have tails that are three times the length of their bodies.

    I can't find any. And you're telling me that on the same day I photographed this 3x tail phenomena in two DIFFERENT species above my intermittent stream...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  12. #23
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    Almost every male mayfly in the Heptageniidae family has tails that exceed twice the length. No matter the genus. Stenacron males work like this; all male Stenacron that are between the body size of 8-10 mm have tails that are exactly 22 mm. For Maccaffertium they are more like 18 mm. The female has to carry the male in flight to copulate and the long wide spent male tails are part of the balance theme. I believe I have laid it out as best as possible to show that they are not the same bug. However if you truly believe they are the same you have that right to do so.


  13. #24
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    Re: Mr. Cahill and the Sulphurs

    They don't appear to be the same species, but I'm not sure the one on the leaf is a M pudicum - it does not appear to be large enough (size 8-10), and tails appear to be 3X the length of the body, which is not typical of the Maccaffertium sp.

    It is also very likely that trout don't care and see both as a food item.


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