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  1. #13
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    I'm not sure I made YOUR TAXES my business.
    But I'm sure that a guy like you would certainly pay taxes on any income you made in NY TO NY. I mean it's the good people of this state that make your job on the D possible, right?

    But getting back to these voids...
    Wasn't it just a short time ago that some certain "trout habitat conservation group" was FOR voids? Well, it seems they were for voids during certain times of the year(hurricane season). Wasn't the purpose to protect residents downstream? Now of course, having voids during hurricane season made the likelihood of cold water released during fishing season more likely... Can't count on Mother nature to provide enough water for that though... SO...

    Now I understand you personally don't like voids, but does that "trout habitat conservation group" still like voids?

    And remember back when guys used to complain about anchor ice during the winter?
    I haven't heard THAT term in years... It's always something...

    Where's Big_Spinner when you need him... Hasn't he been against voids for years?
    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    I'm not sure I made YOUR TAXES my business.
    But I'm sure that a guy like you would certainly pay taxes on any income you made in NY TO NY. I mean it's the good people of this state that make your job on the D possible, right?

    But getting back to these voids...
    Wasn't it just a short time ago that some certain "trout habitat conservation group" was FOR voids? Well, it seems they were for voids during certain times of the year(hurricane season). Wasn't the purpose to protect residents downstream? Now of course, having voids during hurricane season made the likelihood of cold water released during fishing season more likely... Can't count on Mother nature to provide enough water for that though... SO...

    Now I understand you personally don't like voids, but does that "trout habitat conservation group" still like voids?

    And remember back when guys used to complain about anchor ice during the winter?
    I haven't heard THAT term in years... It's always something...

    Where's Big_Spinner when you need him... Hasn't he been against voids for years?
    John,
    My concern with voids are that maybe the percentage needs to be adjusted. A 20% void may not be needed anymore as downbasin communities have taken steps to protect against a 500 yr. event. The cry for voids was due to the 05 and 06 floods that devasted some properties downstream. Now you can question the wisdom of building in a flood plain, but that wasnt what I was alluding to.

    The flood groups that formed spoke with a powerful voice and political allies and any agreement had to adress their concerns. My question was whether the void amount is still needed.
    As far as anchor ice goes, I'm all for it. Strictly anecdotal, but we didnt have the algae problems that we do now, at least until the reservoir hit the 30% or so level. Didymo wasnt present. Ponder this, why is the EB loaded with Didymo and yet not the Beaverkill or Willo.

    The WB is being silted in to the point we are seeing Green Drakes and White Flies up in Stilesville, which never happened until the river started to silt up. There are areas that a wading angler cannot even cross anymore due to the silt. I understand that a river system changes over time due to natural conditions, but what has been happening up there are being exasperated by controllable situations, whether it is too much fertilizer being applied by some of the farms in the drainage or NYDEP mismanagement, certain issues could be addressed.

    The voids have stopped the annual flush of alewives over the dam at ice out just when the post spawn bows could use that slug of protein most. Look at current reservoir levels today, I just did. We are in trouble if we dont get the spring rains, which havent materialized over the last few years, so there are a lot of factors in the mix, some of which are being adressed as we speak with current FFMP negotiations for the coming year. One of which I feel would be a disaster is NY is looking for a 5 year agreement rather than the existing 1 yr.
    On a positive note, Sands Creek flood plain restoration is scheduled to start this year with more to come.


  2. #14
    TR's Avatar
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post

    Where's Big_Spinner when you need him...
    ----------

    Yeah.

    Where is Big Spinner?

    He was lurking here awhile ago.

    Oh, well.

    Jim thinks it's spilling this year.

    Have faith. In July.

    BTW. It's lower today...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	032714.png 
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  3. #15
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Looks like some things never change.

    I have been torn over Voids from day 1

    The voids have indeed created certain issues, as Brachy describes i.e. Less Alewives in the WB, Algae issues from early spring, and I absolutely think that the only reason Didymo showed up is due to Winter releases.Prior to winter releases Didymo wasn't even a topic of discussion related to the Upper D System.

    Freezing Didymo is one of the only ways to kill it..Prior to the winter releases the upper D did in fact freeze.

    That is why the Beaverkill and Wilo does not have didymo and never will.

    It is a double edged sword though,not having anchor ice is a good thing for a couple of reasons, and having winter releases does in fact create a tighter temp range which results in more consistent hatches.Its all about Thermal units aka degree days related to Aquatic insects.

    We do in fact need more water into the reservoirs, without it the summer fishing on the tail-waters will be relegated to just the very upper stretches of the WB,EB, and Neversink.This will be due to low releases and low water which equals higher temps down range.

    The problem with that is you'll have far to many fly-fisherman in the upper stretches which isn't good for the Fish, Bugs, and fishing itself.It's hard to argue Brachy's points since he is a professional guide, and has spent thousands of hours on the Upper D, and countless hours fight for the cause.(Water releases)

    I'm just saying in my humble opinion unless you spend a great deal of time on the Upper D, you really wouldn't know or even understand the impacts of certain changes over the years,In other words there is nothing like practical experience.

    Joe T


  4. #16
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by JOE.T View Post
    Looks like some things never change.

    I have been torn over Voids from day 1...

    Joe T
    -------

    Joey Tut!

    This is old home week!

    Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

    Dennis! Party favors!

    Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

    1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

    Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

    Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com



  5. #17
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    strictly out of technical curiosity: Does anyone know the actual mechanics of setting release levels? Not the politics and decision making stuff but how they actually open and close the valves. Is it something like "hey Jimmy, the foreman says turn lever #2 a half turn clockwise at 3 PM." Or is it more sophisticated than that? Computer controlled from somewhere in a DEP bunker a mile underneath the World Trade Center? Is it like ICBMs where someone sits at the switch and constantly drills though very rigid procedures?

    inquiring mind only wants to know


  6. #18
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Wow 1000 acres sounds like a great hunting spot to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    -------

    Joey Tut!

    This is old home week!

    Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

    Dennis! Party favors!

    Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

    1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

    Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

    Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com



  7. #19
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    -------

    1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

    Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

    Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com
    I do need a location to setup my guiding operation, and perhaps the Beetle can head my fly tying department. Either that, or you can let the Chinese buy it.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

  8. #20
    TR's Avatar
    TR is offline "You can observe a lot just by watching." Y. Berra
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    I do need a location to setup my guiding operation, and perhaps the Beetle can head my fly tying department. Either that, or you can let the Chinese buy it.
    -----

    Your wish is the IDA's command.

    They like the idea especially the name - The Golden Beetle.

    Excellent branding.

    See:

    Sullivan County Democrat: Chinese 'City'

    "Indeed, the plan is predicated on outside investment – Chinese, in particular – through a federal immigration program. Known as “EB-5,” the program encourages foreign investment on U.S. soil by promising visas (green cards) to immigrants who invest at least $500,000 in an American-based project ($1 million in urban and suburban areas)."


  9. #21
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    And let's not forget, Larry Miri!

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    -------

    Joey Tut!

    This is old home week!

    Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

    Dennis! Party favors!

    Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

    1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

    Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

    Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com


    Pictures taken before/after/during fly fishing:
    http://dcabarle.smugmug.com/Sports/F...79119552_XXeHe

  10. #22
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by dcabarle View Post
    And let's not forget, Larry Miri!
    BJ Miller
    Andre
    NJFred

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  11. #23
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    My guess is that spinnerus maximus is too busy actually trying to solve these issues to spend time educating us about them (although Brachy seems pretty well versed already). He also passed a couple of big milestones recently, professionally and personally, and might be taking a much deserved break.

    In any event, if NYC fries the tailwaters this summer, I'm going to personally boycott my own faucet here in Brooklyn. No drinking water, no showers, no baths, no toilet flushing. If all the fly fishermen in the city do this we'll... smell bad and then die of thirst. Okay bad idea.

    Better idea: I'll fill my van with NYC tap water and drive it up to Downsville to ceremonially dump it in covered bridge pool. Somebody call Matt Lauer.


  12. #24
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    Re: NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    -------

    Joey Tut!

    This is old home week!

    Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

    Dennis! Party favors!


    Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com
    Larry is alive and kicking somewhere in NYC.

    Bruce and NJ Fred- Hard-core Delaware Fly-Fisherman.

    TR- A blast from the past, how's the Real Lower D looking? See you soon.


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