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  1. #85
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    In the course of my work, I had contact with many immigrant families. I saw first hand how many of them were living. As you note the folks in your employ work upwards of 72 hours per week and share expenses to get by, and you pay them better than most places and add food as a nice perk. My son was washing dishes in a restaurant next to immigrant workers and was paid $5/hr. I don't know what the other people were paid or their immigration status. We want our kids to work hard, but the dream can't be, "If you work hard in a tough job 72 hrs. a week, you'll be able to share an apartment with a group of other people, eat a meager diet, and enjoy few of the amenities of life. Maybe, if you scrimp, you can go to a movie once a month."
    The job..for an American, should be a stepping stone to bigger and better things....Your son, should learn a bit washing dishes..then become a cook, or busboy, then a server or sous chef, then a manager or an executive chef......One Ecuadorian I hired as a dishwasher, was offered the sous chef position just last week....To my surprise, he didn't want it..he is happy being my number one cook, and making upwards of $700.00 a week..you can see a couple movies if you make the right decisions....in fact on that pay you can have a nice apartment, go out to dinner or lunch once or twice a week..hell you can live like a real American!!!!!

    Your son, I hope isn't still washing dishes, is he? It is a process, such as an apprentice learning a trade and going out on his own......Your thinking, I am thinking is the problem I am speaking of....
    You do not, and will not, and can't start at the top.....which seems to be the attitude I run into with people constantly....

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  2. #86
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    I have no use for people who will not work. Even in a world where everyone worked hard and strove to do their best, there would still be low skill and menial jobs that would have to get done, and sometimes they will be the only jobs available. Realistically, Everybody will not have the opportunity or ability to become chiefs. There will always be many Indians. All I'm saying is if they work responsibly, and put in their 40-50 hours a week, the Indians should be able to live a little better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    You mean that this scenario works because they rely on the principle of the nuclear/extended family supporting eachother? Like in the "old days"? When your relative lost his job or ability to work YOU supported/took care of him? When you realized that it was YOUR responsibility to take care of those you cared about?

    Yes, maybe people ARE spoiled to EXPECT more. Especially if they EXPECT that OTHER people who happen to make more (based on their good decisions to get a higher education or training or take a risk or have some skill or whatever) to PAY them for their decisions NOT to do those things. What "level" is appropriate to "expect"? Should a low income person who is un or under employed smoke? drink alcohol? have cable? kids? I mean, really, we should help out with rent/food if they have money for "extras" like that?

    We as tax payers provide through government programs, MANY opportunities to get education/training at LITTLE or NO expense to low income people. But when they decide not to avail themselves of THAT opportunity, we then are taxed to support THAT decision also.

    You can lead a horse to water...
    But when he DOESN'T drink...

    I don't mind HELPING people.
    But I can't want them to "succeed" MORE than they want themselves to succeed.



  3. #87
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Son is now in a job earning 7.50/hr. I don't expect anybody to start at the top except the children that come from wealth, and I don't agree with that. I just think that our working poor should be able to live better.

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    The job..for an American, should be a stepping stone to bigger and better things....Your son, should learn a bit washing dishes..then become a cook, or busboy, then a server or sous chef, then a manager or an executive chef......One Ecuadorian I hired as a dishwasher, was offered the sous chef position just last week....To my surprise, he didn't want it..he is happy being my number one cook, and making upwards of $700.00 a week..you can see a couple movies if you make the right decisions....in fact on that pay you can have a nice apartment, go out to dinner or lunch once or twice a week..hell you can live like a real American!!!!!

    Your son, I hope isn't still washing dishes, is he? It is a process, such as an apprentice learning a trade and going out on his own......Your thinking, I am thinking is the problem I am speaking of....
    You do not, and will not, and can't start at the top.....which seems to be the attitude I run into with people constantly....



  4. #88
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    Son is now in a job earning 7.50/hr. I don't expect anybody to start at the top except the children that come from wealth, and I don't agree with that. I just think that our working poor should be able to live better.
    There will always be poor people..working and not...I believe the point I am trying to make to you is that these government handouts, no matter how well intended, enable people to be lazy and take advantage...It is a mind-set, a societal problem, and adding to the programs will not help the situation....

    and.......if you are willing to work hard..you will find a job and will be successful...the willingness is the problem....

    seems the thread has taken some twists and turns..what was the original point?

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  5. #89
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Don't remember. If our working poor were not so poor, it would go a long way to providing the incentive for people to work. I have no problem with less money for lazy people who won't work. Just think there should be more money for those that do.

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    There will always be poor people..working and not...I believe the point I am trying to make to you is that these government handouts, no matter how well intended, enable people to be lazy and take advantage...It is a mind-set, a societal problem, and adding to the programs will not help the situation....

    and.......if you are willing to work hard..you will find a job and will be successful...the willingness is the problem....

    seems the thread has taken some twists and turns..what was the original point?



  6. #90
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    seems the thread has taken some twists and turns..what was the original point?
    This administration importing votes from Syria on your tax dollar.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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  8. #91
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    Don't remember. If our working poor were not so poor, it would go a long way to providing the incentive for people to work. I have no problem with less money for lazy people who won't work. Just think there should be more money for those that do.
    OK last, my last post on the subject....we obviously will never agree on this subject, but it is a nice debate...
    I come from poor....I worked my way up...
    I see lazy all around me, poor or not...more pay is not an incentive, hard work and the ability to get promoted to a better job, with better pay is an incentive for hard work, and this process also opens up the entry level position for the next entry level employee....If you are going to pay me more in the same job, why would I try harder?

    So respond of you like, if it is titillating enough I may rejoin....

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  9. #92
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    I don't see us as too far apart. Of course as you climb the ladder you should make more. I just think our society should recognize the value of the work the people on the bottom rung do and make life a little better for them. The people who are working must be able to live a better lifestyle than those that don't. While you appear to favor cutting benefits to the poor, I would prefer to raise the floor for those who work. I too would love to see our system improve on identifying and cutting benefits to the lazy, but frequently there are children, through no fault of their own, who are caught up in the problem. Even if all benefits were cut, I still think people who work should live better than they do now-not better than those who work harder and have more ability, but better than they do now. And I don't think living better should end with the poor. A rising tide raises all ships.

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    OK last, my last post on the subject....we obviously will never agree on this subject, but it is a nice debate...
    I come from poor....I worked my way up...
    I see lazy all around me, poor or not...more pay is not an incentive, hard work and the ability to get promoted to a better job, with better pay is an incentive for hard work, and this process also opens up the entry level position for the next entry level employee....If you are going to pay me more in the same job, why would I try harder?

    So respond of you like, if it is titillating enough I may rejoin....



  10. #93
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    I don't see us as too far apart. Of course as you climb the ladder you should make more. I just think our society should recognize the value of the work the people on the bottom rung do and make life a little better for them. The people who are working must be able to live a better lifestyle than those that don't. While you appear to favor cutting benefits to the poor, I would prefer to raise the floor for those who work. I too would love to see our system improve on identifying and cutting benefits to the lazy, but frequently there are children, through no fault of their own, who are caught up in the problem. Even if all benefits were cut, I still think people who work should live better than they do now-not better than those who work harder and have more ability, but better than they do now. And I don't think living better should end with the poor. A rising tide raises all ships.

    Poor people in America aren't poor. There is no where in this country you can't go and get three hot meals a day for free.

    What you are speaking of is their standard of living. If you want to speak in terms of survival, that is another story. If someone doesn't like their standard of living they can take steps to improve them, or just accept the way their life is going to be if they are not willing to make it better.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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  11. #94
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Don't worry. If amnesty passes then wages will decline for at least 12 years. This was a report from the CBO. Oh, and it will increase the deficit. But hey, this is part of what Barry and his ilk want. To destroy this country.



    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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  12. #95
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Oh, and increased welfare spending. No big deal when it's not their money. The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.



    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  13. #96
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    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CTobias View Post
    Poor people in America aren't poor. There is no where in this country you can't go and get three hot meals a day for free.

    What you are speaking of is their standard of living. If you want to speak in terms of survival, that is another story. If someone doesn't like their standard of living they can take steps to improve them, or just accept the way their life is going to be if they are not willing to make it better.
    We may have the only civilization ever, where obese people can claim to be "poor".
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Fishhead:
    Try for a moment to forget your sense of "what's right" or "should be".... and look at reality.

    What you're suggesting is a sure fire formula for ensuring that American labor won't be able to compete in a world labor market...

    If a trade union gets an increase that prices the product above worlds prices, the jobs will either go to Asia, or the company will fold.

    When the minimum wage goes up, the low end jobs don't go to Asia, they just disappear.

    You simply can't pay someone more than his work is worth.


  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pete For This Useful Post:

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