Hatch Outdoors
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 61 to 72 of 122
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    1060 West Addison, Chicago....
    Posts
    4,161
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,098
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    965
    Thanked in
    644 Posts
    Chats
    4391
    Groans
    27
    Groaned 12 Times in 12 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    Illegal immigrants are the only ones willing to do that work for those wages. If the undocumented workers were not here to take the jobs, you would have to pay more to get an American worker to do the same job. It's not so much that people don't want to do the job. They don't want to do it for the wages offered..
    I apologize for missing the intent of your post.....but..............

    If the job required a higher wage the restaurant would be out of business.....Where I work, we are in the business of giving a fair value, ya know a good product for an affordable price......honesty...true capitalism.......we aren't trying to get the most for the least.....
    We also give a fair wage, and are above the industry average......so, find me a young American, who is willing to work, and maybe learn a trade..(no and not go to the ever necessary college...say it ain't so)work their way up the ladder, from nothing.....$9.00 an hour..to executive chef...which I must say, is a more than comfortable living, if you live modestly.....I haven't met one in at least 15 years.....but I see one everyday I look in the mirror..not so young anymore, but by no means old.....
    This is what is missing around me...young people who are willing to swallow their pride, and learn something that is hard....they think everything should be spoon fed, and be quick...they lack constitution, and drive.....
    But a guy that ate rice and beans everyday growing up, and has been picking fruit in 110 degree 100 percent humidity, under the Ecuadorian sun since he was 8......now that fella will listen, and learn, and perform.......in fact they, because there are more than one, learn English in a matter of weeks, and they do pay their taxes, and abide by the law, and pay the doctor when they go......and have respectable families, and lifestyles.....


    Excuse me for editing, but....I believe the key word here is "want", which should be they "really need"......are we as a society so pampered at this point that people can choose whether they will wash dishes for a specific wage?.......If you don't like the wage, better yourself .......and don't cry to me ..the economy, the economy..if you are good, honest, and dedicated, you WILL be successful....I am on neither side of your debate with Tobias..let's just say I represent common sense.....

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to lightenup For This Useful Post:

    CTobias (06-19-2013)

  3. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    Historically, progressives have led the way to just about every good thing about this country, beginning with the Founding Fathers who were the first American Progressives.
    The Founding Fathers were NOT progressives by any means!

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  4. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    147
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Chats
    1
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1 Time in 1 Post


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    I know it's shocking, but the Founding Fathers were the Progressives of their day.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTobias View Post
    The Founding Fathers were NOT progressives by any means!



  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    147
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Chats
    1
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1 Time in 1 Post


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    My son is currently working in a job that pays 7.50/hr. and many young Americans are willing to work for less than the 9.00 you offer, but 9/hr. does not support an adult lifestyle in America, and certainly cannot support a family no matter how good and honest you are. The bottom line of capitalism is profit, and the most efficient way of turning a profit is controlling costs. Owners frequently pay their employees as little as they can as a way to control costs. There will always be a demand for cheap labor. After all, there can only be so many owners and executive chefs, and somebody has to wash the dishes and harvest the lettuce. How did restaurants stay in business or crops get picked before the influx of cheap illegal immigrant labor?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    I apologize for missing the intent of your post.....but..............

    If the job required a higher wage the restaurant would be out of business.....Where I work, we are in the business of giving a fair value, ya know a good product for an affordable price......honesty...true capitalism.......we aren't trying to get the most for the least.....
    We also give a fair wage, and are above the industry average......so, find me a young American, who is willing to work, and maybe learn a trade..(no and not go to the ever necessary college...say it ain't so)work their way up the ladder, from nothing.....$9.00 an hour..to executive chef...which I must say, is a more than comfortable living, if you live modestly.....I haven't met one in at least 15 years.....but I see one everyday I look in the mirror..not so young anymore, but by no means old.....
    This is what is missing around me...young people who are willing to swallow their pride, and learn something that is hard....they think everything should be spoon fed, and be quick...they lack constitution, and drive.....
    But a guy that ate rice and beans everyday growing up, and has been picking fruit in 110 degree 100 percent humidity, under the Ecuadorian sun since he was 8......now that fella will listen, and learn, and perform.......in fact they, because there are more than one, learn English in a matter of weeks, and they do pay their taxes, and abide by the law, and pay the doctor when they go......and have respectable families, and lifestyles.....


    Excuse me for editing, but....I believe the key word here is "want", which should be they "really need"......are we as a society so pampered at this point that people can choose whether they will wash dishes for a specific wage?.......If you don't like the wage, better yourself .......and don't cry to me ..the economy, the economy..if you are good, honest, and dedicated, you WILL be successful....I am on neither side of your debate with Tobias..let's just say I represent common sense.....



  6. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Unadilla, New York
    Posts
    5,153
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    657
    Thanked in
    468 Posts
    Chats
    683
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 23 Times in 21 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    I apologize for missing the intent of your post.....but..............

    If the job required a higher wage the restaurant would be out of business.....Where I work, we are in the business of giving a fair value, ya know a good product for an affordable price......honesty...true capitalism.......we aren't trying to get the most for the least.....
    Isn't the way wages are SUPPOSED to work quided by the supply and demand principle? In TRUE capitalism, IF, for whatever reason, one cannot find people to do a certain job for a certain amount of money, then shouldn't he increase the compensation until he finds the point where people find that compensation adequate? If ALL businesses followed this principle, sure prices would go up, but the business who could integrate the higher wages into their prices best, would be most likely to succeed.

    I know PLENTY of people willing to do hard work... if they were compensated well.

    There is a HUGE segment of our society that COULD do these jobs. Stopping subsidizing their way of life might go a long way toward providing an impetus to take these jobs. AND if this pool of "low wage" jobs then dried up, then it would help dissuade others from coming here to live illegally.

    I have to add, I am totally disgusted with the amount of posts on this FLY FISHING site that have NOTHING to do with fly fishing... Where is the OUTRAGE I've seen in the past? (or should I say TROUTRAGE?)

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Future Fanatic For This Useful Post:

    CTobias (06-19-2013)

  8. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    147
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Chats
    1
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1 Time in 1 Post


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    I agree with you FF, even addressing the issues of welfare cheats and subsidies for the lazy. As for the troutrage, I find myself having time for this kind of discussion in the winter and when the water is high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    Isn't the way wages are SUPPOSED to work quided by the supply and demand principle? In TRUE capitalism, IF, for whatever reason, one cannot find people to do a certain job for a certain amount of money, then shouldn't he increase the compensation until he finds the point where people find that compensation adequate? If ALL businesses followed this principle, sure prices would go up, but the business who could integrate the higher wages into their prices best, would be most likely to succeed.

    I know PLENTY of people willing to do hard work... if they were compensated well.

    There is a HUGE segment of our society that COULD do these jobs. Stopping subsidizing their way of life might go a long way toward providing an impetus to take these jobs. AND if this pool of "low wage" jobs then dried up, then it would help dissuade others from coming here to live illegally.

    I have to add, I am totally disgusted with the amount of posts on this FLY FISHING site that have NOTHING to do with fly fishing... Where is the OUTRAGE I've seen in the past? (or should I say TROUTRAGE?)



  9. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Unadilla, New York
    Posts
    5,153
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    657
    Thanked in
    468 Posts
    Chats
    683
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 23 Times in 21 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    I agree with you FF, even addressing the issues of welfare cheats and subsidies for the lazy.
    I'm not just talking about the "cheats" and the "lazy".

    I fear we have conditioned a segment of our society to "accept" what WE give them. WE have eroded away a sense of self reliance and determination to strive for MORE.

    WE keep more of our money by demanding cheaper prices. This in turn puts pressure to lower wages. How many MILLIONS of LOW wage jobs do we support in foreign countries? To keep money in our pockets. WE demand food, just for an example, LU, at a "fair value, ya know a good product for an affordable price". WE pressure a business to hire illegal workers at "below market wages" (most Americans are unwilling to take for that particular job). BECAUSE we want to keep money in our pockets, we ALLOW illegal workers from foreign countries to take jobs with wages "below market value". This money we "saved" in our pockets must then be paid to Americans who DON'T work (or don't work ENOUGH)(or don't make enough due to wages that are artificially low). A little simplistic, but it seems like a big circle that creates several problems... It seems that "fixing" one of the "problems" would help fix them all.

    I sometimes think about the portion of my tens of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes to the state and federal governments that go directly to support individuals... if I could take that and instead pay it in WAGES to some under employed individual, where he would gain experience, a reference and some self esteem and I would gain some service being done, wouldn't that be a net gain for the economy and the country in general longterm?

    Most parents attach conditions to any allowance they may give their kids. Why? And why not apply the same, to those we give an "allowance" to? But THAT is another thread...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Future Fanatic For This Useful Post:

    CTobias (06-19-2013)

  11. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    As I stated before. ILLEGALS cost us more than they put back into the system.

    The High Cost of Cheap Labor | Center for Immigration Studies

    Executive Summary

    This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.
    Among the findings:


    Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


    Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion);food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


    With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


    On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


    Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


    If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


    Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


    Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


    The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


    The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


    The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  12. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    I know it's shocking, but the Founding Fathers were the Progressives of their day.
    No. I'd say they were pretty conservative/libertarians. Progressives are all for craddle to grave big government. The Founding Fathers were anything but big government.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  13. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    The bottom line of capitalism is profit, and the most efficient way of turning a profit is controlling costs.
    Owners pay a wage for the skill it takes to complete the task at hand. Also, we do not have true capitalism and free market in America today. We have crony capitalism. You can blame both sides of the aisle for that. They don't work for you, they work for the special interest groups and the corporations that line their pockets.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  14. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Fanatic View Post
    I sometimes think about the portion of my tens of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes to the state and federal governments that go directly to support individuals... if I could take that and instead pay it in WAGES to some under employed individual, where he would gain experience, a reference and some self esteem and I would gain some service being done, wouldn't that be a net gain for the economy and the country in general longterm?

    Most parents attach conditions to any allowance they may give their kids. Why? And why not apply the same, to those we give an "allowance" to? But THAT is another thread...
    Because then they would lose votes! Sheesh. Can't go buying votes with other people money if people work and realize a good chunk of their pay check is going to those "less fortunate" (lazy free loaders) who choose not to work and live off the rest of us.

    **Yes I know there are those who have no other choice and come on hard times.** That doesn't mean being on welfare and WIC is meant to be a career!! There needs to be a cut off. Nine months sounds good. If you can't find a job in nine months, then too bad so sad. Go back to school and learn a trade. If my brother can find a full time job in under a week moving to a new state that pays $14 an hour, then so can everyone else. Unless of course they are a wicked cool high school drop out, then they can go be a ditch digger. The world needs ditch diggers. People shouldn't expect to get more than the minimum when their experience and education are below the minimum.

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




  15. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, Alaska
    Posts
    4,221
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,149
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    896
    Thanked in
    549 Posts
    Chats
    825
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 25 Times in 25 Posts


    Re: Coming to a city near you!!

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....errrr I mean program.

    Special Report: Syria's Islamists seize control as moderates dither | Reuters

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    http://www.savebristolbay.org/

    REAL FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPOON FEED

    http://www.roehard.com

    http://www.glsteelheadco.com




Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Participants: 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •