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  1. #85
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    Fish head you simply paint with too broad a brush. You can't state the wealthy all pay a lower tax rate because you have to first define wealthy and then determine what their tax rates are. As I have said before the with all the supposed tax breaks the "rich" get they are still paying the bulk of fed income tax by a large margin.

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    In 1913, an amendment to the Constitution was ratified permitting a progressive income tax.
    This is the amendment, it does no such thing as allow a "progressive tax". If so, it's text would have nullified the uniformity clause in Article 1 section 8. The 16th amendment reads as follows. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration". What it does is allow a federally collected income tax, but it in no way shape or form usurped the uniformity st forth in article 1 section 8.

    Hell no and it aint over now.......

  3. #87
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    Fish head you simply paint with too broad a brush. You can't state the wealthy all pay a lower tax rate because you have to first define wealthy and then determine what their tax rates are. As I have said before the with all the supposed tax breaks the "rich" get they are still paying the bulk of fed income tax by a large margin.
    Correct Mac, and every so-called loophole used by the "rich" is available to everyone.

    Hell no and it aint over now.......

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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Your "findings" about people who "live off the system" seem to be shared by many these days. There are certainly some that game the system, but I am skeptical of how you reach the conclusion that those lacking drive and determination and find it easier to sit home and collect a check are in the majority. As I have already said, I believe that those that can work-should work, but, especially in the current economic atmosphere, there are a lot fewer "deadbeats" than you want to believe. I don't see a progressive tax rate as punishment when it supports the system that creates the opportunity for success and wealth.


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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouser Trout View Post
    Correct Mac, and every so-called loophole used by the "rich" is available to everyone.
    I believe that you should read this. How to Pay No Taxes: 10 Strategies Used by the Rich - Businessweek


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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    "The 16th amendment, which you cited, demonstrates that congress has the power to levy an income tax. The necessary and proper clause:
    "The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. Demonstrates that congress may set up the machinery for and income tax in such a way as they see fit including a progressive income tax if they have a legitimate government reason to do so.
    Finally the legitimate interest of maximizing tax revenue and minimizing taxpayer hardship provides a legitimate government reason to meet the rational basis test required for constitutionality." (Randomstudent) The final prove of constitutionality is that no wealthy man has brought it before the SCOTUS.




  7. #91
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    We are getting into a circular argument Mac. Of course those who have the largest incomes pay the most in income taxes. Please read this about the reality of who pays taxes. Misconceptions and Realities About Who Pays Taxes — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities


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    It's not a circular argument at all. Your contention is that the rich pay a lower tax rate then everyone else. I say you must first define what it means to be wealthy and then provide the proof that they all pay lower tax rates. However my argument stands and is valid. In the history of our country we have never cut significant spending and kept taxes at a reasonable level, your argument for bringing back the economy seems to be a Keynesian one. This requires me to place my faith in a gov. That has not earned it. Before I provide more of my hard earned money I think it's reasonable the gov take steps to dramatically reduce waste and abuse. When the pentagon can't account for as much as 20% of its budget it's well past the time to deal with the waste and abuse.

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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  10. #93
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    It's not a circular argument at all. Your contention is that the rich pay a lower tax rate then everyone else. I say you must first define what it means to be wealthy and then provide the proof that they all pay lower tax rates. However my argument stands and is valid. In the history of our country we have never cut significant spending and kept taxes at a reasonable level, your argument for bringing back the economy seems to be a Keynesian one. This requires me to place my faith in a gov. That has not earned it. Before I provide more of my hard earned money I think it's reasonable the gov take steps to dramatically reduce waste and abuse. When the pentagon can't account for as much as 20% of its budget it's well past the time to deal with the waste and abuse.
    Mac you hit the nail right on the head. This is just a symptom of a larger problem. Both parties are no immune from it. We have too many hands on the funds between the tax payer and what the funds were appropriated for. That is a true statement upon all facets of government. On this one, the problem lies solely on the American tax payer. We let it go on for a long time now. Now the problem has become so vast and so many with their hands in the cookie jar that we can’t pinpoint the blame to one individual. (Murphy’s Law of accountability; “When more then one person is to blame no one is at fault)
    The problem for law makers now is the American people have woken from their long slumber and the Socialist are scared to death about this. They have made a big miscalculation, which they did not anticipate. While the Socialist are trying to produce an America in their own image they forgot one thing and critical one; They will never be able to take the American out of the American it is ingrained in our DNA.

    "Hatchery fish have the same colors, but they always seem muted like bad reproductions of great art." Bill Barich

  11. #94
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    My contention has been that some of the wealthy pay less of a percentage of their income in taxes, and it does not constitute an undue hardship for them to pay a little more. I would define wealthy as someone in the top 20% of net worth in the US. Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power I agree that the government needs to reduce waste and abuse. Your example of Pentagon spending is a perfect case in point. These unaccounted for funds are not going into the pockets of the poor or middle class. They are being funneled straight into the pockets of wealthy corporations represented by powerful lobbies, and they are not "trickling down", so by all means, it is time to cut out waste and abuse. Unfortunately, the Koch bothers and others have been able to use their power to demonize the poor and working class while lionizing the "job creators". This is not democracy; it is plutocracy. The one tax graph you really need to know


  12. #95
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    My contention has been that some of the wealthy pay less of a percentage of their income in taxes, and it does not constitute an undue hardship for them to pay a little more. I would define wealthy as someone in the top 20% of net worth in the US. Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power I agree that the government needs to reduce waste and abuse. Your example of Pentagon spending is a perfect case in point. These unaccounted for funds are not going into the pockets of the poor or middle class. They are being funneled straight into the pockets of wealthy corporations represented by powerful lobbies, and they are not "trickling down", so by all means, it is time to cut out waste and abuse. Unfortunately, the Koch bothers and others have been able to use their power to demonize the poor and working class while lionizing the "job creators". This is not democracy; it is plutocracy. The one tax graph you really need to know
    Not sure where anyone has demonized the poor or working class (whatever that is).

    Hell no and it aint over now.......

  13. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    My contention has been that some of the wealthy pay less of a percentage of their income in taxes, and it does not constitute an undue hardship for them to pay a little more. I would define wealthy as someone in the top 20% of net worth in the US. Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power I agree that the government needs to reduce waste and abuse. Your example of Pentagon spending is a perfect case in point. These unaccounted for funds are not going into the pockets of the poor or middle class. They are being funneled straight into the pockets of wealthy corporations represented by powerful lobbies, and they are not "trickling down", so by all means, it is time to cut out waste and abuse. Unfortunately, the Koch bothers and others have been able to use their power to demonize the poor and working class while lionizing the "job creators". This is not democracy; it is plutocracy. The one tax graph you really need to know
    So redistribution of wealth is the answer? Did you see how much people on welfare receive?

    Over $60,000 in Welfare Spent Per Household in Poverty | The Weekly Standard
    http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ov...ty_657889.html

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