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  1. #37
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    I would be very careful asserting the rich get all the breaks.
    Agreed. My wife and I take every single legal break we can and we itemize every year to do so. And we are a very, very, very long way from being rich.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    I find it ironic that folks who don't want taxes raised on the wealthy point out that the upper 10% pay 71% of income taxes. They fail to realize that this only serves to point out the income equality gap between the rich and everyone else, especially since, through the use of loopholes and tax shelters, they pay a lower rate than the rest of us.
    The so-called rich are not using any method of accounting or investment that isn't available to everyone. The laddered tax structure that we have on income is nothing but an achievement tax on the successful. Which is in clear conflict with taxation uniformity which is demanded in Article 1 section eight of the US Constitution, which is what gives the congress the ability to levy taxes etc. It reads as follows:

    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. It then further details what the congress has the ability to use the money for once it is collected. NOWHERE does it read that those earning more money shall pay more or at a higher rate, because it states that taxes shall be uniform throughout the US,which would be in direct conflict to the clause.

    Hell no and it aint over now.......

  3. #39
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Well stated TT. Of course no one reads or cares about the constitution otherwise we would live in a much different America.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouser Trout View Post
    The so-called rich are not using any method of accounting or investment that isn't available to everyone. The laddered tax structure that we have on income is nothing but an achievement tax on the successful. Which is in clear conflict with taxation uniformity which is demanded in Article 1 section eight of the US Constitution, which is what gives the congress the ability to levy taxes etc. It reads as follows:

    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. It then further details what the congress has the ability to use the money for once it is collected. NOWHERE does it read that those earning more money shall pay more or at a higher rate, because it states that taxes shall be uniform throughout the US,which would be in direct conflict to the clause.


    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

  4. #40
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    Here's some facts for you. The top quintile of wealth in this country saw real wealth decrease more than any other quintile. The bottom saw an increase in real wealth. This is all over the Great Recession. The middle 3/5ths saw negligible decrease of another 1-2%. This is from the CBO.

    Here's another fact revenue as a percentage of GDP has been about 15-20% since 1960 regardless of tax policy. Spending on the other hand has grown, especially in the last 4 years to a high of around 25% of GDP.

    What can we learn about this? The so-called wealth gap is bull shit propaganda. It's designed by leftist think tanks to promote fear that the haves are getting more than their fare share. Here's the thing, the pie is not limited. It can grow with savvy economic policy. Who cares is there's a big gap when everyone's slice is bigger?

    Meanwhile out of control deficit spending is slowing the economic engine that drives this economy, along with poor federal reserve policy to devalue the debt we have.

    Inflation is more related to the growth of money supply. Milton Friedman has written plenty on this.

    A GDP growth of just 3% has shown federal revenue growth of 6-7% In total. So there's real data to support lower taxes. Simplify the code and I bet things would get even better.

    All these things can get only get done from both sides of the aisle. The republicans are going to have to call Romneys plan what it is, a tax hike. The democrats are going to have to look at serious entitlement reform and quit making the rich into a boogeyman and quit giving something for nothing.

    7 days without fishing, makes one weak.

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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    The argument that democrats 'hate' the rich always comes up. It's nothing but a dialog terminator to either avoid the topic and/or remain ignorant/indignant. Romney's 47% comments clearly show his disdain and judgmental view for those not like him - rich. HE is the one making this about who people are not what the economic model is doing. Democrats are rightly so pointing out how the 'trickle down' idea did not and is not working. If you project out the old adage that "it takes money to make money' you will end up with the disparity we have today. The disparity is not about rich people and not rich people - they are the symptoms the canaries in the coal mine. The disparity is there because it, money, did not trickle down. Besides, in a country based in liberty, who thought it was a great idea that Americans would like the idea of having their 'wealth' trickle down from others??? We are free people! We go for and earn what we get! This whole idea was and is un-American.

    And now.... Romney and Boehner have classified "Job Creators"! It wasn't democrats that coined that class warfare term. Consider this stupid notion.. So, they want to support the job creators, as they define them, so they can create jobs... great idea... BUT how do I become a job creator??? Sure, I do all the hard entrepreneurial stuff and get it done, but why would existing job creators get government assistance? Ironic in a dirty way that they are against government unless it helps them as usual.


  6. #42
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by streamfisher View Post
    The argument that democrats 'hate' the rich always comes up. It's nothing but a dialog terminator to either avoid the topic and/or remain ignorant/indignant. Romney's 47% comments clearly show his disdain and judgmental view for those not like him - rich. HE is the one making this about who people are not what the economic model is doing. Democrats are rightly so pointing out how the 'trickle down' idea did not and is not working. If you project out the old adage that "it takes money to make money' you will end up with the disparity we have today. The disparity is not about rich people and not rich people - they are the symptoms the canaries in the coal mine. The disparity is there because it, money, did not trickle down. Besides, in a country based in liberty, who thought it was a great idea that Americans would like the idea of having their 'wealth' trickle down from others??? We are free people! We go for and earn what we get! This whole idea was and is un-American.

    And now.... Romney and Boehner have classified "Job Creators"! It wasn't democrats that coined that class warfare term. Consider this stupid notion.. So, they want to support the job creators, as they define them, so they can create jobs... great idea... BUT how do I become a job creator??? Sure, I do all the hard entrepreneurial stuff and get it done, but why would existing job creators get government assistance? Ironic in a dirty way that they are against government unless it helps them as usual.

    Streamfisher it's disingenuous to state the class warfare argument started with one party. There is no question that the democrats use this as a way to make people feel they are being treated unfairly. Let's looks at your other statement about trickle down theory. For this to be true the breaks would all have to go to one segment of society. Clearly this is not the case. As illustrated in previous posts even eithvsll of the supposed breaks the top 10% still foot most of the federal income tax bill. If we are going to analyze the policies of one party it's fair to analyze the policies of the other. The recession officially ended in 2009. We are 3 years removed from this recession. Our economy is stagnant at 1.8% GDP growth. There are 23 million folks underemployed or unemployed, real unemployment stands unchanged at 14%, The average family income has dropped by 4k, annual trillion dollar deficits are projected out for several years. Given the level of stimulus the government provided these numbers should be much better. Even with the argument that they inherited a mess. The combination of tarp, stimulus, fed monetary policy, as well as increased government spending amounts to trillions in real stimulus. The results of which you can see above but lets add to it. How about half of all college grads without a job? An increase in food stamps from 32 million to 48 million, and not one budget passed by the senate in 1300 days. no budget. They didn't even present one.

    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

  7. #43
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    Starting to sound like GST's off topic forum over here

    We need a leader right now. Obama has not been that guy. Time will tell if Mitt can be that guy. But we can't fix what's broken if only one party is brought to the table.
    The two party system is what is broken.....party lines are drawn in the sand like the Maginot line in the French mountains..no one shall pass!!!! People voting party lines, because they are brain washed to believe whatever is spewed by the media, politicians voting for not what will fix problems, but what will make them look better to their party leaders.....we need an all out Blitzkrieg on the system created by our corrupt policy makers, a total revamp of the party system so politicians aren't interested in getting re-elected or moving up the parties pecking order, we need some politicians who work for the people instead of their party!!!!!
    Who's with me?!?!?!?!

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

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  9. #44
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    Streamfisher it's disingenuous to state the class warfare argument started with one party. There is no question that the democrats use this as a way to make people feel they are being treated unfairly.....
    I disagree. This IS my point. Democrats don't think they are being treated differently. Nor do they argue that trickle down is unfair to THEM. They argue it is unfair, period. It doesn't work, period. I argue it's unamerican. It's not personally about about the rich and poor. It's about policy. Romney, again, is the one who makes it about people. This is mostly because he doesn't even know the difference between a corporation and a person. He looks at people much like a corp HR would - just a resource albeit a human one. This causes him to conflate. Hell, he even said Israel is a wealthier nation than Pakistan because of their culture. I guess Pakistan can have the best economic plan ever conceived but it's doomed to failure because they are a subpar people? Are democrats, in his mind, a lesser 'culture'? Suffice to say, he is the one doing the classifying.


  10. #45
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Democrats every day get on tv, radio, and the like and rail against rich corporations screwing everyone, the rich getting all the tax breaks, the rich not paying their fair share, and the middle class getting screwed. This is the mantra they use to make people feel like they are being victimized. Subsequently you can go on plenty of social media sites and see these talking points being parroted by the masses. The message is clear. You are a victim, vote for me and I will make them pay. You can make this about Mitt Romney but this is really a larger issue about how divisive our politics and our country has become.

    Quote Originally Posted by streamfisher View Post
    I disagree. This IS my point. Democrats don't think they are being treated differently. Nor do they argue that trickle down is unfair to THEM. They argue it is unfair, period. It doesn't work, period. I argue it's unamerican. It's not personally about about the rich and poor. It's about policy. Romney, again, is the one who makes it about people. This is mostly because he doesn't even know the difference between a corporation and a person. He looks at people much like a corp HR would - just a resource albeit a human one. This causes him to conflate. Hell, he even said Israel is a wealthier nation than Pakistan because of their culture. I guess Pakistan can have the best economic plan ever conceived but it's doomed to failure because they are a subpar people? Are democrats, in his mind, a lesser 'culture'? Suffice to say, he is the one doing the classifying.


    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

  11. #46
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    You can make this about Mitt Romney but this is really a larger issue about how divisive our politics and our country has become.
    MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!! Thank you Macfly...the two party system has created an atmosphere where division is the only way to get your ideals in place.....it is corrupt and has no integrity....

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  12. #47
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    I agree about the division, but it doesn't make me divisive if I'm pointing out Romney as being divisive. And I contend that his divisivness is at the very root as I contend he is the one who classifies people which fosters divisivness. For example, you speak of people feeling like victims. Romney is the ONLY person who referred to people as being victims and he was talking about half the country. Complaints or criticisms about how things are going should not be viewed as victimization. Forgive the expression, but only pyschopaths see things through pure victim/predator glasses. I make it about Mitt because we have an election two weeks from now and he is the current face of what could be the leader of the free world.

    Quote Originally Posted by MACFLY View Post
    Democrats every day get on tv, radio, and the like and rail against rich corporations screwing everyone, the rich getting all the tax breaks, the rich not paying their fair share, and the middle class getting screwed. This is the mantra they use to make people feel like they are being victimized. Subsequently you can go on plenty of social media sites and see these talking points being parroted by the masses. The message is clear. You are a victim, vote for me and I will make them pay. You can make this about Mitt Romney but this is really a larger issue about how divisive our politics and our country has become.



  13. #48
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    Re: Presidential Candidate Q & A on Recreational Fishing

    You completely disregard the fact that this video was a recent revelation. Prior to that the narrative I described above has been in place for a long time. The president himself has made it a large part of his campaign for months. If you believe all of this divisiveness is because Romney said 47% see themselves as victims you purposely ignore all that has come before.


    Quote Originally Posted by streamfisher View Post
    I agree about the division, but it doesn't make me divisive if I'm pointing out Romney as being divisive. And I contend that his divisivness is at the very root as I contend he is the one who classifies people which fosters divisivness. For example, you speak of people feeling like victims. Romney is the ONLY person who referred to people as being victims and he was talking about half the country. Complaints or criticisms about how things are going should not be viewed as victimization. Forgive the expression, but only pyschopaths see things through pure victim/predator glasses. I make it about Mitt because we have an election two weeks from now and he is the current face of what could be the leader of the free world.


    "Angling is extremely time consuming. That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

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