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    Midge Pupa, Sizes

    What is the average hook size of midge pupas here in PA? It seems I read one time they are 20s and 22s. Can anyone help me out on this?
    Thanks,
    Bruce

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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Bruce, great question.....I'm tying most of my pupa patterns from #18-26.. .
    But would like to narrow it down only #20-22 if it can be done..


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    I can't imagine that you would need to go below 22 with pupa. I've never gone smaller than a #20 2488 or 2487, and that was very rarely, although those hooks are 2x short. Most of the time, I never go smaller than an #18 in that hook size. Its more important I think to tie a thin body. The cool thing about a size 18 is that it probably also gets mistaken for a micro caddis, so tie some in olive or brown.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    SneakyPete (11-15-2010)

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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    I can't imagine that you would need to go below 22 with pupa. I've never gone smaller than a #20 2488 or 2487, and that was very rarely, although those hooks are 2x short. Most of the time, I never go smaller than an #18 in that hook size. Its more important I think to tie a thin body. The cool thing about a size 18 is that it probably also gets mistaken for a micro caddis, so tie some in olive or brown.
    Wow, I learned something new today... I seen a midge pupa on #32 Tiemco 518.
    So i guess going below #22 with a pupa at times is a must?????

    I use the 2457 & 3761 hook allot in #20-24


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    I would imagine in some selective feeding situations, going below #22 is required. Hanging a something really small off of a Griffiths Gnat probably works well during a hatch. Then again, I'm not a big midge guy, I usually employ them in nymph form only, usually mid-summer, fall, and winter. Most of the waters I fish also have really healthy caddis populations, so I'm sure they get mistaken for micro-caddis since midge and caddis profiles are very close in the larger sizes (16-20).

    I like the 2488 when you start getting small because of the straight eye, gives you a tiny bit more hook-gap, not sure if its makes a difference, but its a confidence thing.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Get the book Midge Magic for a lot of midge patterns designed in PA. Lots of midges on 18 3906B (1x long) hook. One guide I know relies on a 16 Zebra midge on a regular hook, which makes it the same size as an 18 1X long. For smaller midges, I go with a size 22.

    For years a size 22 was as small as I would go and generally did OK. However, there were days when a 24 or 26 would make a big difference. However, I have trouble tying on small hooks with cold hands so 22's became my regular small midge hook and my smaller hooks became depleted. Plus, I caught enough on 22's and didn't mind missing out on a few by not going smaller. This summer I bought some 24's and 26's again and they do help so I will probably try more tiny guys.

    I also like the 2488 hooks and the heavier 2488H where you need to go deep. These shorter shank hooks work well for me in 18 and 20.

    I agree with the microcaddis sentiment. I like to have a few "midges" with a bright green body. The local streams have a lot of chimmara caddis and small simple larva patterns in a sort of dirty yellow to orange range work well some days.


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Thanks. Let's keep this discussion alive. I tied some midge larva patterns from John Barr's book on size 24 and 26 size 2488 TMC hooks. I even fished them on 5x tippet and caught trout with them, but I started wondering what sizes are the midges we try to imitate here in PA. I figure if I didn't have to go so small why should I, but I wasn't sure how small or large was good enough. I get a certain thrill catching trout on small flies even if the trout are only 12 inches long or less. I enjoy learning about this stuff and reading other peoples' takes on the subject.
    Bruce


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Barr's midges are cool, and also easy to tie. What colors did you tie them in? You should also check out Mercer's Midgeling. A little more involved to tie, but different flavor that also works well. I think that Barr's work better in the smaller sizes though.

    Roll up the windows Brian, you're letting the stank out.

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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Interesting question. I would guess that most are in the 20-24 hook size but they can be as small as 2mm and fit on the head of a pin. I tie them in size 20-28 using TMC 2488 or 2487 (hooks which are 2x short).

    Here's a link with some info:

    Midge | Chironomid | Fly Fishing | Westfly

    Click on some of the articles near the bottom of the page. Some good stuff there about midges and patterns.


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by Trout Nazi View Post
    Barr's midges are cool, and also easy to tie. What colors did you tie them in? You should also check out Mercer's Midgeling. A little more involved to tie, but different flavor that also works well. I think that Barr's work better in the smaller sizes though.
    I tie them in olive, tan, black, white and red. So far I've done the best with the olive and red. I agree the smaller sizes work the best. I never heard of Mercer's Midgeling.


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    Re: Midge Pupa, Sizes

    Thanks for the reference of the Mercer's Midgeling Emerger.. I never heard of that fly and will start tying it..
    I like tying the BH UV Z-Midge (Olive) It kind of looks like a Mercer's Midgeling.. But just a little different....

    After thumbing through my "Modern Midges" book I just found Mike Mercer's Midgling...
    They have only the olive and root beer in this book... Do you know of any other good colors???


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