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  1. #49
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    Allan,

    Here's some temps from this morning.

    Hale Eddy 52.2 degrees F @ 6:45am
    Callicoon 64.4 degrees F @ 6:15am

    Don't know about Deposit as there is not a guage there.
    The spread in temps will be increasing as the weather warms.

    Bruce


    It's 3:00PM and the water temperature is say 67 degrees at Calicoon, what would the temperature be at Deposit. Okay, I know it depends on air temperature and the amount of of direct sun but on average what would be your guess or is there a formula?



  2. #50
    Unregistered NEFF Guest


    Originally posted by Alan Podell
    Bruce (or others),

    It's 3:00PM and the water temperature is say 67 degrees at Calicoon, what would the temperature be at Deposit. Okay, I know it depends on air temperature and the amount of of direct sun but on average what would be your guess or is there a formula?

    Thanks.
    ............

    I'm not sure that there is a "formula" Alan.

    Factors such as as:
    • Distance from Deposit to Callicoon - roughly 40- 45 miles.
    • River levels - low, medium or high - and exposed streambed and rock
    • Is there water in the tribs? And where Oguga Creek? Shehwakin? Basket?
    • What kind of summer weather pattern is there?Sunny, hot days or cool wet days?


    IMO, there are too many variabbles to answer your question.

    However, you should look at the following URL's to be aware of how high the water temperature has become in the summer when there is a flow of 250 to 500 cfs at Hale Eddy.

    www.gonefishingguideservice.com/2002_main.html
    www.gonefishingguideservice.com/2003_main.html

    Thank you for looking.

    Tight lines,
    TR
    Narrowsburg
    www.delawareriverfishing.com


  3. #51
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    Hi Bruce,

    There is a gauge at Stylesville. You can get data from it, but it is not real time. There is some interesting stuff you can get from it.

    The warm spill really makes Hale Eddy and Callicoon variable in relation to each other. The spread probably will actually be reversed on days when warm spill makes Hale Eddy warmer than Callicoon.

    When we start to get consistant releases, the spread will be more meaningful.

    I spoke to the USGS guys when they were here and they said that their crew in Fort Collins and the Weather Service guys will develop a temperature model like other river temp models they have done. The other models are accurate to within 1/2 a degree centigrade. Sounds pretty impressive. I can't wait to see it done and applied to the river.

    See ya,

    Jim


  4. #52
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    Originally posted by Jim Serio
    Hi Bruce,

    There is a gauge at Stylesville. You can get data from it, but it is not real time. There is some interesting stuff you can get from it.

    The warm spill really makes Hale Eddy and Callicoon variable in relation to each other. The spread probably will actually be reversed on days when warm spill makes Hale Eddy warmer than Callicoon.
    .........

    Last year - 2003 - there was warmwater spill most of the summer at Cannonsville.

    Both the WB and MS were warm.

    However, the main stem at Callicoon was a lot warmer than the WB - especially at Hale Eddy.

    Look at the numbers - of course, when you get a chance:

    www.gonefishingguideservice.com/2002_main.html
    www.gonefishingguideservice.com/2003_main.html

    TR
    Narrowsburg
    www.delawareriverfishing.com


  5. #53
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    I looked at this weeks numbers and you can see the West Branch was warmer than Callicoon last Friday.

    There were 5 or 6 days the past month that the WB was warmer than the Main Stem due to warm spill.

    My point is that until the reservoir stops spilling, and before we get cold water from the bottom, the WB can and does get warmer than at Callicoon.

    CORRECTION NEEDED:

    "...last year - 2003 - there was warm water spill most of the summer at Cannosville..."

    Here is the real story:

    2003 - Cannonsville spilled only on July 1st in July (a spill of 25 cfs on July 1) and spilled a minor amount (max of 21 cfs) for a few days in August. NYC DEP anticipated the August spill and released (up to 700 cfs) from the bottom to nearly eliminate the August spill.


  6. #54
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    I looked at this weeks numbers and you can see the West Branch was warmer than Callicoon last Friday.

    There were 5 or 6 days the past month that the WB was warmer than the Main Stem due to warm spill.

    My point is that until the reservoir stops spilling, and before we get cold water from the bottom, the WB can and does get warmer than at Callicoon.
    Jim,

    Isn't this why we are depending on a bottom water release?

    Pictures taken before/after/during fly fishing:
    http://dcabarle.smugmug.com/Sports/F...79119552_XXeHe

  7. #55
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    Yes,

    The bottom releases to compensate for warm spill are supposed to occur like they did last year in August and September.

    This release is not part of the Habitat or Conservation banks of water.

    When the reservoirs stop spilling (Pepacton will be any day now, unless we get a big rain) then the Habitat bank water will be used to keep flow and temperatures according to te new plan.

    All of the increased awareness on this subjet has certainly helped to keep the DEC and DEP on their toes. Keep up the good work.


  8. #56
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    Originally posted by Jim Serio


    The warm spill really makes Hale Eddy and Callicoon variable in relation to each other. The spread probably will actually be reversed on days when warm spill makes Hale Eddy warmer than Callicoon.

    See ya,

    Jim
    ..........

    Jim,

    I was referring to the summer months - not last week.

    June, July and August.

    Read the numbers from Callicoon USGS for 2002 and 2003.

    Your theory of Hale Eddy being warmer than Callicoon was last week?

    Sure - because there is water in the tribs feeding into the main stem - plus the levels have beeen between 3.7 to 4.7 feet for the past two weeks. No rock is exposed.

    It's spring Jim.

    Try again this summer.

    TR


  9. #57
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    Tony,

    We have no arguement. That is why I said, wait until releases to see the spread.

    I said throughout the posts that I was referring to this week. You never mentioned summer in your posts.

    The "fooey" and "Cmon" are uneccessary Tony and insulting.

    How do you respond to the FACT that the West Branch was not in fact "SPILLING MOST OF THE SUMMER" as you mentioned. That is flat out wrong as I pointed out that the spill was never more than 25 cfs and for only a few days in July and August. The spill was also compensated in August.

    I agree that water should have been released during some of that time for temperature considerations, but not to mediate "WARM SPILLS" which did not in fact occur. The water must come from the habitat bank. Now with a biggest bank it should be available. It is up to us to make sure it gets used.

    We need to scream and yell when appropriate and be careful not to "cry wolf" too often or it will fall on deaf ears when we need it most.

    I will be on the river for a few days so my posts will be scarce.


  10. #58
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    Big Spinner wrote
    Here is the real story:

    2003 - Cannonsville spilled only on July 1st in July (a spill of 25 cfs on July 1) and spilled a minor amount (max of 21 cfs) for a few days in August. NYC DEP anticipated the August spill and released (up to 700 cfs) from the bottom to nearly eliminate the August spill.
    Once again a slippery response.

    Cannonsville spilled almost every day in June last year. The only release that was made happened to fall just before the politicians went to WBA for a day of floating the westbranch if my memory serves me correctly'

    By the time July rolled around, the lack of releases to compensate for overflow virtually put the fishing season to end up in that area. July and August was an economic travesty for businesses in that basin. Some businesses only opened a few days a week because cut their hours drastically, Some couldn't ring enough sales to cover their electric bills. Look at the whole picture Jim. Come on already

    --FT
    Nothing grows faster than a fish between the time the fish takes your fly...and the time he gets away.

  11. #59
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    Slippery how?

    This was to refute Tony Ritters statement that the WB spilled most of the summer. That statement was wrong.

    I do agree that 671 releases should have been made in late May June in 2003 and believe that they will be this year. We have somewhat of a precedent set thiis week. Not perfect, but a start. Since July 1st of last year, we have had releaseswhen they were required by 671. Actually the August release was even better than 671. It anticipated the spill and prevented it. Like I said, it will be up to all of us to hold the DEC, DEP and Rivermaster to this requirement for the next 3 years.


  12. #60
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    Slippery because you left out the entire month of june.

    Not perfect means NON COMPLIANCE. Instead of thanking them, hold them accountable. They are not comlying now!!!

    --FT
    Nothing grows faster than a fish between the time the fish takes your fly...and the time he gets away.

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