Delaware River Club
Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ... LastLast
Results 25 to 36 of 216
  1. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock
    Posts
    1,962
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    84
    Thanked in
    58 Posts
    Chats
    0
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Joe,

    Please re-post the answers to those questions since I am not sure I have seen the FUDR position.

    Thanks,

    Jim


  2. #26
    Unregistered NEFF Guest


    Originally posted by Jim Serio

    "...I am not sure I have seen the FUDR position."
    ........

    After all this time and you haven't read the position paper.

    FUDR has a website where you can review it.

    www.fudr.org


  3. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sullivan County
    Posts
    1,809
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    78
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    106
    Thanked in
    66 Posts
    Chats
    1
    Groans
    4
    Groaned 2 Times in 2 Posts


    Jim

    Theres a concern "press release" that was put out by the FUDR that was put out a couple of weeks ago that I am sure you have read.

    It goes into great detail as to WHY the fudr is opposed to the plan,and why they feel it has serious flaws.

    I will pull up the post so you all can take a look at it agian.

    JOE


  4. #28
    Unregistered NEFF Guest



  5. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Unadilla, New York
    Posts
    5,206
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    688
    Thanked in
    489 Posts
    Chats
    683
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 24 Times in 22 Posts


    Joe (and everyone else),

    I'm a nobody. I've lived up here for over twenty years, but have only been flyfishing the Delaware system for two. I accept that there are hundreds if not thousands of people that understand the system much more than I. I belong to neither one of the groups that are currently sparring over who cares more or who knows what the best thing is for the system . I'm not sure what is being "gotten at" when I'm asked if I have been speaking to anyone from the DRF. If you must know, I spoke to Jim once. It was at the picnic on the Delaware in Hancock. He never brought up the FUDR, never spoke about flow issues and never even asked me to join the DRF. Our conversation was about knotweed because I have some experience with it and I actually had some doubts as to it's threat, but I think, that that's not the conversation you thought I had been a part of.

    As anyone can see by my questions, I'm having a hard time understanding why the debate has become so heated. There have been so many pointed questions and comments at Jim, by people that I assume had been standing with him so few months ago. Not understanding why the "new plan" is worse than what had been in place, I, as I would hope others would, wonder why this 600cfs factor is so critical. If the "new plan is ANY better than what has been in place in the past, fishing will be as "Blue Ribbon" or "World Class" as it has EVER been. So AGAIN, I wonder why the FUDR crowd is so adamant about the 600cfs. I hear "temps on the MS". OK. So, now that this "plan" is in place, work on that. It seems to me that this USGS study will help determine what is best for the ecosystem. 200, 400, 600 or 1000 does anyone know? What will NYC agree to? Jersey, Pennsylvania or whoever else has a stake? Who is now in a better position to work with these groups?

    Having stated that I still wonder why (with a better plan in place) the FUDR guys are so steadfast in their defense of the 600cfs number, I have to look at other reasons for it. Sure, guides and resorts have boats to fill, but it is also surprising to me, the number of individuals that would be able to get their own craft or their pals crafts on the water for a significantly longer period of the season (all of it). Fly Tier mentioned floating, I've seen Joe T. in a boat along with bjmiller, and hell even Dennis was out on the D. They are all people that support the FUDR. Hmmm. Am I suggesting that something nefarious is going on here? Not really . But as a guy who wades, I have concerns that the level of discharge being fought for is not so much based on what is best for the ENTIRE system, but for the main stem, so waders fishing the WB, be damned. In addition, if a 600cfs release financially helps out some fishing entrepreneurs, I don't expect them to bring up the plight of "local (or non-local) wader hobbyist trout fishermen". That does not help their bottom line.

    Now about sounding like "some one else" while expressing my views, I think I know whom you mean, and that just plain hurts, Joe . I've been around here long enough for you to see, that I OFTEN try to be the Devil's Advocate. I try very hard to show the other side of many debates. Whether that is about defending us locals, debating casinos or even defending you on occasion. Please don't question my logic or rational thought now, just because I may be questioning (this time) something you believe in. It is NOT personal. I have NOTHING TO GAIN by questioning anyone's stance. Pissing off people gains me nothing either, so you can forget that I have an "agenda" or that I am trying to tick you or anyone else off, just to do it. I still entertain hopes of fishing with a few of you folks that are aligned with FUDR. If for no other reason than to find out some places to wade on the WB after these three years are up. J

    My bottom line: I want to be able to fish a healthy river. I want to be able to have the best opportunities to do so. I don't want people to back any plan, just for the purpose of it benefiting themselves financially at the expense of the opportunities for others. I want all fishermen to have the best opportunities to enjoy the system available to them.

    John

    Now, how about the question of access...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  6. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sullivan County
    Posts
    1,809
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    78
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    106
    Thanked in
    66 Posts
    Chats
    1
    Groans
    4
    Groaned 2 Times in 2 Posts


    John

    Yes, I have floated the west branch 4 times this year.



  7. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock
    Posts
    1,962
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    84
    Thanked in
    58 Posts
    Chats
    0
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Nicely stated Future Fanatic.

    It has always been about the fish and habitat. I do not claim to know what is best. The Foundation has taken the path to assist in getting the best information we can and then make the most informed decisions for the fishery and habitat.

    IN the meantime, lets make sure that if and when the new plan falters we make sure that everyone who has control of the river knows about it.

    In the meantime, we are fighting to control knotweed, which is a much bigger threat than many of us realize. IT takes about a foot of bank away every year. This widens and then warms the river.

    The foundation has established a dedicated fund to lease and acquire new accesses on the rivers. Hopefully we will have some good news in the near future.


  8. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New York (Ulster County)
    Posts
    556
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Chats
    0
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Mark,

    With all the recent posts on the Upper Delaware, a whole lot of info has been made available to many interested people who may not have otherwise been aware of what's going on, and that's a good thing!!

    Bruce


  9. #33
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Roscoe,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,658
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Chats
    0
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Bruce, for the most part your right. mark.......

    Mark J. Romero
    www.fudr.org
    607-498-9944
    M&M Fly Fishing
    JazzMark Gallery
    94 Yorktown Road
    Roscoe, N.Y. 12776-5017

  10. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Unadilla, New York
    Posts
    5,206
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    688
    Thanked in
    489 Posts
    Chats
    683
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 24 Times in 22 Posts


    And then I read something like this on espn outdoors...

    "Scenarios

    What if water levels rarely go above 160 cfs this summer?

    "There are still good areas to fish, but many lies and holes get dried up and fish move to deeper lies," said Anthony Ritter of Gone Fishing Guide Service in Narrowsburg (845-252-3657). "They get stacked up. You want them spread out."

    You'll be restricted to wading. Ritter said water needs to be at least 3 feet deep to float.

    "Drifting is best because you cover a lot more water," he said. "In 2 feet of water, you'd be in and out of the boat 16 times. It makes for a long day."

    Ideally, Ritter said, water needs to be between 500 to 600 cfs to be 3 feet deep, although 455 cfs will put 2.8 feet of water in the river, which is driftable.

    Wading low, clear water requires stealth and matching hatches — less prolific in less water — requires a good eye."

    This comes from

    http://espn.go.com/outdoors/fishing/...are_river.html

    It's an article about fishing the West Branch. No mention is made that the 500-600 feet of water is needed for the ecosystem or cooling the Main Stem. Can you understand why I have questions/concerns?
    John

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  11. #35
    Unregistered NEFF Guest


    Originally posted by John of Unadilla
    And then I read something like this on espn outdoors...


    http://espn.go.com/outdoors/fishing/...are_river.html

    It's an article about fishing the West Branch. No mention is made that the 500-600 feet of water is needed for the ecosystem or cooling the Main Stem. Can you understand why I have questions/concerns?
    John
    ...........

    John,
    That article came out - I believe - two or three years ago.

    The author asked me specific questions and I referenced my comments and observations to the main stem specifically from Long Eddy to Callicoon.

    The main stem is a big river - and quite different in structure - as the gradiant drops south of Lordville. There are more gradient changes thus more riffles.

    I still believe that the main stem from Long Eddy to Callicoon needs from 2.8 to 3.3 feet of water to both effectively wade fish and drift. You pick up more water from the tribs adding to the flow.

    Anything below 2.7 feet, the MS gets bony and warm in the summer - and when the river level is over 3. 5 feet wading is very limited to current speed and water height.

    And, a flow target of 225 to 400cfs at Hale Eddy on the WB will guarantee levels at or below 2.8 feet and water temperatures in excess of 75 degrees by the end of the day during the summer months barrng any rainfall in the tribs.

    Please read the URLs from 2002 and 2003 with regard to water temps from late June through late July.

    Kindest regards,
    TR
    www.delawareriverfishing.com


  12. #36
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Roscoe,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,658
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Chats
    0
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts


    John, i think your points have been well taken for quite some time. By quite a few i might add. BTW, are you a TU member? And if so, what chapter? Just curious. willow........

    Mark J. Romero
    www.fudr.org
    607-498-9944
    M&M Fly Fishing
    JazzMark Gallery
    94 Yorktown Road
    Roscoe, N.Y. 12776-5017

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Participants: 21

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •