Delaware River Club
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  1. #121
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    Well, with the hot weather the past 2 days, the fishing has dropped by the wayside as expected. Hale Eddy hit 67.1 yesterday and Callicoon hit 70.7 at 1pm today. The release from Cannonsville has only been half the volume of what is spilling. Montague is running at over 3800 CFS at 1pm today and it will be quite a while before there is a need to release water to satisfy the 1750 CFS target there. I expect tomorrow the Hankins max will exceed 75 degrees. Will there be water released to bring the temps down without someone screaming???

    Just a couple of days ago the fishing was as good as it gets and the fish were happily eating. Now there just trying to breath. The new plan does not cover the situation that we now have (warm water spilling, hot weather, not enough water being RELEASED to offset the other 2 factors). SOmething should have been written to cover this type of situation like:

    If the RESERVOIRs are above 80%(arbitrary number) and temps at HALE EDDY are above 62 degrees (arbitrary number and location) then RELEASE X-amount of water to offset temps. Something like this should be done especially during a heat wave.
    Just my $.02

    Bruce


  2. #122
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    Bruce, this is exactly why FUDR is looking for Consistant cold water releases of 600 CFS. there would be no guessing whether DEC would abide by their current regulations, etc. THis is why, for the life of me, I can not understand why someone or some organization, advocating for the fishery, would agree with the current release flow of 225 on the west branch. Doesn't make sense. IMO, anyone thinking that the durrent plan of 225 flow is good for the fishery, is definetely not an advocate for the flisherman and woman.

    Thats my .02 cents and I am no longer going to debate it. Its time to continue concentrating of the FUDR release plan. FUDR needs membership support!
    -FT

    --FT
    Nothing grows faster than a fish between the time the fish takes your fly...and the time he gets away.

  3. #123
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    The answer I believe is that was the best plan that all parties would agree to. It's been said many times that no one is happy with it but it's the best that was achievable currently. The FUDR plan is great and if someone could explain to me or, at least give a hint, at how they expect to achieve it or what they are doing about I, and I'm sure others, would consider supporting the FUDR.


  4. #124
    CDC Guy NEFF Guest


    I have been following the discussion for the last few weeks. I've been fishing the D for over 30 years, so this stuff is important to me. The two organizations have two different styles. The FUDR are idealists who canot understand why seemingly rational solutions cannot be put in place. The Serio Group are pragmatists who would rather see some improvement, even if marginal.

    For my part, I would like to see as much time spent on this forum discussing the political framework as is spent on the "ideal" solution for the fish. Based on what I know now, the political situation is so fragile (25 MM + people downstream vs a few million dollar local sport) that I don't see why the powers at be would even listen to us (let alone respond to our concerns). Once I know more about the decision framework, at least I will have a better idea of how "optimal" a solution I can hope for. Most people on this forum know more about fishing/trout which is certainly less important in the short run than those people who understand about the political decision-making aspects. I want to hear more from these guys, if they are listening....


  5. #125
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    I have a simple question for supporters of the DRF or the FUDR: Why should the over 12 million people and billion $ industries of NYC, Philly or the other communities that are dependent on water from the Delaware River Basin give a hoot about the recreational desires of several thousand fly fishermen and the few million $s that sport brings in?

    These two organizations represent, or claim to represent, the improvement of the fishery. Even assuming that to be the case, there is no good reason why the 'downstate' communities should give a damn. Maybe when the recreational needs of a few come close to the day-to-day needs of millions, something significant will happen. Until then it should not surprise anyone if those millions, through their representatives, tell the sportsmen to pound salt.

    If you don't like that comment or disagree, offer a reasonable argument not some bull.

    Allan

  6. #126
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    Originally posted by Mayfly
    "...Until then it should not surprise anyone if those millions, through their representatives, tell the sportsmen to pound salt.

    If you don't like that comment or disagree, offer a reasonable argument not some bull.
    ..........

    hmmm..."Pound the salt"?

    ;-)

    Better tie up a few of those large Clousers and Deceivers not only for the salt - but the for the "gamest fish that swims" - namely the smallmouth bass.
    .............


    Alan...I'll take my Clousers in gold/brown in size 2 please.
    Thank you.




  7. #127
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    I don't tie those lures. Fly fishing for smallmouth bass is enjoyable too!

    Allan

  8. #128
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    CDC guy:

    Its really not about the downstate people. Its about NYC hoarding water ($$$$). FUDR is not asking for anything new as far as their release plan. The flows need to be consistant rather than yo-yo releases, That has been said many times and it is backed up by facts.

    Willowhead Jr. I mean Allan Check your facts before you spew it out. Remember, two plans: DEC/NYC and FUDR. Supporters of DRF are supporting the supporter of a plan by NYC/DEC. FUDR has its own plan. Now, being very carefuily looked at by key organizations. It is also now being brought to the forfront of "those representatives of the millions". Read the economic impact studies and educate yourself.

    FYI for all:
    its not a few million dollars: A few million dollars is paid in out in wages to the local community workers.

    1996:
    For the following towns: Hancock, Depositm Walton and Downsville, Thats just 4:
    Total revenue by businesses directly related to anglers was $17,686,151. In 1996, it was estimated that the sport fishery supported 348 jobs and wages of 3.65 million for local residents.

    You are looking at 4 towns here. You are also looking at the fact that 80% of this revenue was generated in a two month time period.

    Imagine what it could do to the local economy if the season was extended to 6 months or more. Wake up people!

    If people just stand around with a wait and see attitude, we will all be waiting for the stocking truck to show up. Allan it seems that you may be the first car following the truck

    We need to overturn the 225 flow. FUDR needs membership support. http://www.fudr.org/join.htm

    --FT
    Nothing grows faster than a fish between the time the fish takes your fly...and the time he gets away.

  9. #129
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    Allan,

    I don't understand you point. Of course the masses in the big cities that don't fish the area for trout don't care about the fishery. But if the water were managed better, the fishery would benefit without causing problems for the downstream folks. I don't understand why you're so hostile. The historical releases have been what the FUDR is asking for, nothing more except consistency.

    CDC Guy, I agree with you but I'm not sure that the new plan is better than the old. The new plan covers some situations but I don't think it will cover the situation we're getting into now, with above normal warm flows. If there were something to cover that scenario also, the plan would be better.

    I just hope it doesn't take a major fish kill to do the right thing.


    Bruce


  10. #130
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    "For the following towns: Hancock, Depositm Walton and Downsville, Thats just 4:
    Total revenue by businesses directly related to anglers was $17,686,151. In 1996, it was estimated that the sport fishery supported 348 jobs and wages of 3.65 million for local residents."

    Boy, those figures are really going to get a rise in what the water does for over 12 million people and billions of dollars in the downsate areas.
    Again, what does any of this effluent you spew offer those areas. You seem to want to say, 'Be reasonable. We know we have nothing to offer you but please give us what we need to enjoy our trout fishing.'

    Also, out of curiosity, how much of the $30.5 million(Pepacton), $140 million(Canonsville + aqueduct) $50(?) million(Neversink) did those towns shell out?

    Again, answer this: Why should downstate give a damn about your recreation and the miniscule revenues generated?

    Allan

  11. #131
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    Allan,

    as far as how much did those towns shell out?, I'm sure they paid their fair share of State taxes, like all NYS residents. And yes, it's City property, but the City does get State funding and it's all related.

    Bruce


  12. #132
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    Allan,
    Dont tell me what I seem to want to say. Because what I want to say to you will get me in trouble with dennis.
    So, stay on the beaverkill with Willowhead and catch your stocked fish, Continue to tie your bootlegged flies, continue trying to instigate.

    Go to one of the town meetings, walk in and tell those towns that the money that comes in is so miniscule, people really dont give damn, including yourself.

    --FT
    Nothing grows faster than a fish between the time the fish takes your fly...and the time he gets away.

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