Global Warming a Hoax, don't worry you will still pay for it.

[MACFLY]

CT, your opinion is so for a reason and I completely understand. Your occupation is linked to this bill. However, none of the BS articles or interviews you post will change MY opinion. There are just as many articles, studies, and opinions on the opposite end of the argument. Im not going to sit here and debate online and ask people to read biased reports. I've seen three TV programs in the last week on C02 and global warming. Do either of us know the truth of their linkage? NO. But dam the torpedos lets go ahead and radically alter our economy anywayMy point all along has been this bill calls for cleaner air and emissions, which I am for.No one in this argument is against cleaner air and emissions. We are against a bill that clearly doesnt achieve it and yet will impact us financially while the major developing countries continue to ignore even basic environmental stewardship. There are two sides of the story and I dont buy into your side.. PERIOD. I suppose Im just a tree hugger like you said earlier. I dont see you so much as a tree hugger just incredibly naive. Lets face it your posts have been no less provocative as anyone else. Stop acting like your being picked on.See you on a fishing thread.

OK your view has been made clear BIGBOW. You want the bill at any cost. Doesnt matter if it means no net decrease in C02 emissions. Doesnt matter if China, India, and other countries continue to increase their emissions. Doesnt matter if the president states it will absolutely impact us financially. Sign it at any cost. I can only surmise you either benefit financially in some way or you just dont give a crap.

[MACFLY]

Spoken like a moderate.

Hey if thats a moderate position than we must all be moderates.

[MACFLY]

CT,
I'm not going to weigh in on this topic one way or another. With that said, can you please post a link with any sort or credibility? Posting a link on the topic of global warming per the heritage foundation is akin to an anti-hunter posting a link from PETA. You get it?

Perhaps when you (or the opposing view) can provide credible links and not just rhetoric and conservative leaning voices this discussion will move forward.

Maybe what's really "ruining" this country is a back of basic research skills. I think Library skills 101 is in order for some. Some people need to learn to research and cite credible scientific sources.
Just because Pat Buchanan or Nancy Pelosi state it doesn't make it fact.

Here is a concept you can chew on. How about you stop pretending to not have a position. Nothing worse than someone who claims neutrality and then chimes in with comments like yours above. At least CTobias has posted links supporting his arguments. Furthermore if you take some time to look at what he posted it was the EPA commissioners own words stating that this bill will not have a measurable impact on reducing global warming. The last post is the presidents own words stating that this will have a big impact on us economically. Thats not the heritage foundation, foxnews or anyone else.

Im gonna bet if you ask Ctobias he will tell you he is for a cleaner environment. Whats so difficult about seeing that this is a bad bill. Whether you believe in global warming or not. I highly doubt most folks want more pollution. What we disagree on is what the best approach is to fixing it.

[BIGBOW]

OK your view has been made clear BIGBOW. You want the bill at any cost. Doesnt matter if it means no net decrease in C02 emissions. Doesnt matter if China, India, and other countries continue to increase their emissions. Doesnt matter if the president states it will absolutely impact us financially. Sign it at any cost. I can only surmise you either benefit financially in some way or you just dont give a crap.

Thats right, Im niave and dont give a crap. I'll bet my ass Im involved in more donated charities for the environment than you will ever be MACFLY. Im also extremely involved with politics and make my voice heard often (have you met with your local representatives or senators in person to discuss topics? Doubt it, but I have). Thank you kindly for allowing me to feel like Im chatting with a grade schooler. If I see you on the water Ill be sure to say hi . Ill try my best to stay clear of your posts, as you've made it clear that you're all about the money. For the record, I never felt "picked on" although I did feel like I was wasting time talking with an idiot. Now Im going fishing for a few weeks in a wonderful remote area. Im sure if people like you had your way they'd be setting up oil drilling rigs there as we speak or mining the hell out of the mountains for more cash. You're an interesting guy.

[MACFLY]

Thats right, Im niave and dont give a crap. I'll bet my ass Im involved in more donated charities for the environment than you will ever be MACFLY. Im also extremely involved with politics and make my voice heard often (have you met with your local representatives or senators in person to discuss topics? Doubt it, but I have). Thank you kindly for allowing me to feel like Im chatting with a grade schooler. If I see you on the water Ill be sure to say hi . Ill try my best to stay clear of your posts, as you've made it clear that you're all about the money. For the record, I never felt "picked on" although I did feel like I was wasting time talking with an idiot Stop talking to the mirror than..See its so easy to drop to your level. Never called you a name just provided an alternate view. thats the problem you have. You dont debate you just get angry and name call.. Now Im going fishing for a few weeks in a wonderful remote area. Im sure if people like you had your way they'd be setting up oil drilling rigs Haha another example of your ignorancethere as we speak or mining the hell out of the mountains for more cash. You're an interesting guy. Between the extremes of blowing up the tops of mountains or basically making coal too expensive to mine Im betting there is a middle road that we can take but we will never get there based on folks like yourself.

Uh Oh someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. You are so predictable and clearly not interested in debate. Your comments indicate you are no different in that once you find someone who disagrees you slap the label on him. If you are involved in politics than clearly you benefit from what is transpiring. The fact that you need to put your resume out there indicates you are also quite insecure. Yeah Im all about the money BigBoy. You are a trip. just ignore facts and keep going in the direction you are headed. Its going to lead you into a big black hole. Enjoy your fishing trip BigBow.

[MACFLY]

Here is an article on former global warming proponents that have changed their opinions and now dont believe in the science.

Scientists Increasingly Dissent With Global Warming Proponents. | NowPublic News Coverage

nowpublic is neither left or right. Its a crowdsourcing site.

[tompg]

I'll answer this question:

Here is a question for you BIGBOW. Lets say we decide on our own to cut our carbon emissions 40% and China/Inda say thats nice but no thanks as they have stated. What should we do after that? Cut it 80% to make up the difference?

We should continue to cut our lead by example.

Here's a question for you:

China is a Communist Country with no free speech. Should we not allow free speech just because China doesn't. China sensors its peoples' access to information but we don't. What difference does it make if if we do the right thing and China does not?

Don't tell me this off topic when you use an argument like "it's ok to be wrong because someone else is wrong."

[Trout Nazi]

This "lead by example" is such a bullshit argument. You've been in corporate politics, or "regular" politics, for too long to keep using this mantra, especially since the developing world really does not care what we do, and actually does things in spite of us.

The reality is that the industrialized first world has been working to reduce emissions since the 70s. More stringent auto emissions standards, scrubbers on coal buring plants, limited use of certain solvents, etc. China and India could care less. Most of the population still rides 2-stroke vehicles and burn coal in their homes. Industrially, they're too busy making money off of cheap crap they sell us to care. There is a smog clould you can see from space, every summer, over half of the Asian continent. You really want to squeeze China and India into compliance? Huge tariffs and taxes on their imported junk (watch how quickly things get made in the USA again too).

Can we do more to reduce emissions? Sure, we've been evolving in that direction for a long time. Premier Obama's motives are "not green" though. Someone is going to make out with this bill, and it ain't going to be you. Unless you're in a "green" industry of course.

And you should all go and take some science courses, maybe some physics, chemistry, biology and statistics, before you buy into this man-made warming crap.

[BIGBOW]

You are so predictable and clearly not interested in debate.

What is there to debate you fool? Argue our opinions in front of a computer for days on end and get NOWHERE? This thread is a bunch of opinions.. nothing real at all.. oh, except Dr Trout Nazi who went to college and knows global warming is fake.

[tompg]

This "lead by example" is such a bullshit argument.

Well perhaps lead is a strong word when nobody is following but I don't think it's right to race to the bottom of the barrel either. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right. Didn't you mother teach you that?

This was also the very first time anyone has seen as political in any way. Perhaps it's time for a career change. Tompg for President!!!

[Trout Nazi]

Thats Herr Professor Trout Nazi. And yea, go get your learn-on macht schnell, and you'll see its fake too.

[MACFLY]

What is there to debate you fool?Get a grip Bigbow. Go to your happy place. I hate to see you so angry Argue our opinions in front of a computer for days on end and get NOWHERE? Its only debate if you want to stop insulting folks and present your arguments for or against. You seem to not be interested in that.This thread is a bunch of opinions.. nothing real at all.. oh, except Dr Trout Nazi who went to college and knows global warming is fake.

.

You have received plenty of cogent arguments against this bill which you choose to ignore and in return fire off insults. Once again and only because im such a nice guy I will present one of the arguments against the bill. It calls for redistributing money from the U.S. to other countries. THis is money gained through carbon credits that companies have to buy. So we would send money who dont want to participate in reducing emissions instead of re-investing every penny into initiatives like smartgrid technology that could reduce energy distribution waste by several orders of magnitude thus reducing pollution. Again you have decided that since I dont suppor this bill and dont believe global warming is proven or man made that somehow I dont want clean air or clean water. Thats just factually not true and really indicates that your view is that of someone still in elementary school. That you believe this current group in congress is going to solve this issue is even more frightening.

When are you going on your trip? You need to relax otherwise your heart will be damaged and then you will have to wait 5 years for a transplant with our new healthcare program