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  1. #1
    Finn is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Upper D Shuttle Service

    Hello - I was wondering if anyone had a shuttle service they could recommend for the Upper Delaware and the ballpark cost?

    Thanks
    Finn


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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Franks Shuttles: 607-768-2059 or you can reach them via West Branch Angler at 800-201-2557

    Border Water Outfitters: 607-637-4296

    Last season Frank was in the $30 range.

    "I think I fish, in part, because it's an anti-social, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution." John Gierach

    www.FlyFishTheDelaware.com


  3. #3
    Finn is offline Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Thanks for the help Joe.


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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Before I answer your question, let me say that I've watched shuttle prices go from $20.00 - $35-$40. The reason was because of gas prices. Now I know it wasn't costing an extra $15.00 to travel 12 miles, unless they were shutteling with hummers, and we all know that with the Hancock and Deposit economies, they aren't driving Hummers. Do they not teach simple math up in that area?

    $4.50 per gallon @ say 12 miles per gallon is only $4.50, not $15.00. Where was the justification in this 15.00 price hike? Not only that, but we all know that most cars are getting over 16 miles per gallon so If they charged us an additional $3.00, it would have been fair, but NOT $15.00.

    At todays NY price:
    $2.50 per gallon @ 12 miles per gallon = you guessed it, $2.50. Will the shuttle service lower their prices now? I'm going to say NO.

    Since they know people will pay the extra unjustified price hike in a bad economy, they might just raise their prices knowing that people will continue to pay. Jeez... once the economy starts to pick up, they might start charing you $50.00 then $100.00 for that 12 mile round trip. There's an old saying... Give someone enough slack and they'll hang themselves. Let's see how greedy they will get before people start telling them to "Kiss my ass".

    Ike: 607.467.3491
    Frank: 607.768.2059

    Prices should be cheaper now. Please report back to us and let us know if they're still charging for the higher gas prices.

    Catskill Lover

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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    CL,
    There are overhead costs involved with increased raw material costs. In the restaurant business the rule of thumb is that the meal price is 3X the raw material cost - which seems like what prices are going up. If you only increase your prices at the rate that the materials go up then you are eating the overhead costs. A big business can do that for a while, I doubt a guy shuttling fishermen has the financial reserves to do that.


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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    It now costs $35-40+ because people will pay that amount, just like the Orvis Helios rod line moving the premium fly rod price bar up $150 from the mid $600’s to the high $700’s in one fell swoop. The new Sage TCX line debuted at $795. Premium Fly rod prices traditionally raised about 5% per year ($25-30 in recent years). Companies will charge up to the amount that people are willing to pay. If sales decline because of high prices, prices will decline. Just look at car prices, housing prices, etc. If the price point dips below the amount needed for a company to cover costs, the company usually will go out of business and prices will raise and/or another better more efficient company will take its place. And on and on…it’s the American way…it’s called capitalism. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… There’s surely going to be a shake up in every business and industry, including and especially the FF industry in the next few months and years. Hopefully it will settle down sooner rather than later.


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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffK View Post
    CL,
    There are overhead costs involved with increased raw material costs. In the restaurant business the rule of thumb is that the meal price is 3X the raw material cost - which seems like what prices are going up. If you only increase your prices at the rate that the materials go up then you are eating the overhead costs. A big business can do that for a while, I doubt a guy shuttling fishermen has the financial reserves to do that.
    You're not comparing apples to apples. What are the overhead costs involved with a shuttle service?

    We can count car usage sort of, but is there really overhead on a 1994 buick or a 2000 minivan? Cars this old are 100% prone to some type of maintenance work, regardless of what they are used for. I'm almost positive these are the cars used for the shuttle service.

    Let's say that on an average day, they perform 5 shuttles at @12 miles each. That's 60 miles of mostly highway driving in zero traffic (let's face it, there is no traffic in this area). Many people travel 60 miles a day to get to and from work anyway. Are they putting more stress on their cars than some city guy traveling 30 miles to work each day then 30 miles home (In stop and go traffic both ways). Absolutely NOT. So I think it's fair to say that we can discount the car as being overhead. They aren't doing anything different than any other person who drives an hour to work and an hour home from work.

    On average, these shuttle guys make more money than most of the population and more money (by the hour) than every guide. How do I figure? 2.5 hours of "work" for $175.00 = $70.00 per hour. That's not too shabby. Where did I get $175 from? Well, 5 shuttles @ $35.00 each = $175.00. I'm going to guess that 2.5 hours to drive 60 miles is really pushing it a bit so the $70.00 figure is probably and most likely over $100.00/hr. How many of your are making that?

    Remember, the entire reason for bumping the prices was because of higher gasoline. You're the first person I've heard mention overhead costs. A taxi driver has over head costs and a Taxi driver pays taxes, a taxi driver has to purchase a meter, their cabs have to be maintained quite more than a shuttle car, they pay a medallion fee or lease fee, and other costs such as a premium for car insurance. If you think about it, hiring a Taxi in the area for a shuttle might be far less cheaper than an actual shuttle. Then again, maybe calling the taxi will result in ole' Frankie showing up in his 1994 buick. Once he sees your fishing equipment he just might jack up the price and tell you some lame ass story about the price of oil hitting $130.00 per barrel.

    Please people, don't make up excuses for the poor shuttle people. They're making more money than you think. Do the math.

    10 shuttles * $35.00 per shuttle = $350.00. Let's say this is 3 hours of their time (realistically closer to 2.5 hrs). That's $117.00/hr.

    Catskill Lover

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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Wasnt this subject beat to death earlier this year?

    Someone was whining about the prices, found a cheaper alternative, and found his boat over in Roscoe, on a West Branch float.

    I have never had that problem with Frank. I use these services more than most and I rest easier knowing that at the end of the day, my truck and trailer will be where we planned.

    If you dont like the costs, get a new hobby.


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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Catskill Lover View Post
    Please people, don't make up excuses for the poor shuttle people. They're making more money than you think. Do the math.
    Six miles in a car with you? $35? You're gettin' a friggin' bargain.

    Somebody calls me up, tells me what time, what day, where I have to be and then where I then go? Not for $35... and not several times a day and on the weekend... and only certain times a year...

    John
    Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.--Henry David Thoreau

  10. #10
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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Quote Originally Posted by brachycentrus View Post
    Wasnt this subject beat to death earlier this year?
    Sounds like another subject that's beat to hell just about every day.
    Please release more water.
    Please release more water.
    Please release more water.
    Please release more water.
    Please release more god damn water.

    How about releasing some more water?
    Release more F'ng water already.
    Release the F$#!ing water MF'rs...

    You're not going to release the water? That's it, you asked for it.



    Please bring me more water.

    Spare some water please????

    Water.


    What would you like to talk about today since my subject wasn't good enough? I know, let's talk about the flows on the Delaware and what we can do to change them. We'll create a new acronym and have meetings and rallies. We'll hold fund raisers and we'll hire the best attorneys our fund raising efforts can afford. We'll get people from Cornell and Harvard together and we'll create charts based on factual information gathered from broken gauges. We'll make them listen and we'll make them learn, then we'll watch them thumb their nose at us. Have no fear though, there are plenty of other acronyms left out there. We'll find one that works.

    Someone was whining about the prices, found a cheaper alternative, and found his boat over in Roscoe, on a West Branch float.
    Since when did you become Fox news? You're putting a different twist on that story.

    I have never had that problem with Frank.
    Who said anything about having a problem with Frank. He's probably a helluva guy (and laughing about it all the way to the bank). I personally think he's too expensive. If you choose to pay him 10 times more than what you make for a guided float trip, good for you. Since you're happy with Frank, continue to be happy, I can't fault you for that. Personally, I can't afford to pay someone such a high rate for such a simple task.

    A police officer, school teacher, fire fighter, union workers, Millitary personel, etc, don't make a fraction of what Frank gets to hop in your car and drive it 6 miles downstream.

    Now that I think about it, I have to honestly say that Frank is much smarter than the average person. Instead of faulting him for taking your money, I have to applaud him. He's found a niche market and taking advantage of it.

    I use these services more than most and I rest easier knowing that at the end of the day, my truck and trailer will be where we planned.
    I'm sure your clients can also rest at the end of the day knowing that they paid you a fraction of what you pay Frank. You are rowing a boat, putting them on fish, tying on their flies, tying on new leaders and tippets, let's not forget, dealing with some of their BS, teaching them, instructing them, all the while ensuring that their safety is your #1 priority. Not to mention, your licensing fees, boat registration fees, ramp fees, first aid class fees where they apply, Franks fee, etc... I'm sorry, but unless you are so loaded with cash, I can't find the logic. All Frank has to do is get in a driver seat and drive 5 minutes downstream.

    If you dont like the costs, get a new hobby.
    What planet did that statement come from?

    I'd just like to add one thing to my above statements. I have absolutely no issues with Frank on a personal level. I've only met him once or twice. He's never done anything to me. He's shuttled my car a few times. I've never had anything missing and my car was left where I asked it to be left. No problems. If that's worth $35.00 to you, than use Frank.

    Catskill Lover

  11. #11
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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Hi,

    There are several ways to get shuttles done.

    Remember, that if you leave your car with money and instructions, it takes two people to get your car where it is supposed to go. Someone has to pick up the driver. Ideally for the shuttlers, they get consecutive shuttles down the river and only one pick up at the bottom.

    There could be a bit of a sliding scale for lentgh of shuttle. A Balls Eddy to Shehawken may not cost as much as Buckingham to Long Eddy.

    Buck to Long Eddy is probably 30 miles round trip and close to an hour. So that is 1.5 gallons of gas and two hours of driver time. Say $5 for gas and $15 per hour for each driver.

    If the shuttler drives with you and returns your car to the downstream takeout, it probably takes longer. Shuttler needs to wait for you at takeout, shuttler needs to wait while you unload boat and stow gear.

    If you think they are getting rich, come on up and start your own service!!

    By the way, if you need a shuttle from near Balls Eddy or Hancock, I will do it for $20!!! Just PM me!!! Flies, advice and real estate are extra!!!

    Jim


  12. #12
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    Re: Upper D Shuttle Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Spinner View Post
    Hi,

    There are several ways to get shuttles done.

    Remember, that if you leave your car with money and instructions, it takes two people to get your car where it is supposed to go. Someone has to pick up the driver. Ideally for the shuttlers, they get consecutive shuttles down the river and only one pick up at the bottom.

    There could be a bit of a sliding scale for lentgh of shuttle. A Balls Eddy to Shehawken may not cost as much as Buckingham to Long Eddy.

    Buck to Long Eddy is probably 30 miles round trip and close to an hour. So that is 1.5 gallons of gas and two hours of driver time. Say $5 for gas and $15 per hour for each driver.

    If the shuttler drives with you and returns your car to the downstream takeout, it probably takes longer. Shuttler needs to wait for you at takeout, shuttler needs to wait while you unload boat and stow gear.

    If you think they are getting rich, come on up and start your own service!!

    By the way, if you need a shuttle from near Balls Eddy or Hancock, I will do it for $20!!! Just PM me!!! Flies, advice and real estate are extra!!!

    Jim
    Jim, I agree on some of your points. The only thing as you've mentioned about the float from Buck to Long Eddy is considerably further than Shehawken to Buckingham or Deposit to Hale Eddy. For these trips, they do charge more money to make up for those costs (which is acceptable).

    As a side note... Many of you chose to post using alternate names.

    Big Spinner - Jim
    brachycentrus - Jeff
    Catskill Lover - dcabarle

    I just chose to use 'catskill lover'.

    Catskill Lover

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