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  1. #61
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The meeting was on 2/8...later that same day....

    I paraphrased part of what Chris said, including the word "supposedly".
    He appeared to be trying to express optimism, but didn't seem too sure of himself.
    I just checked very closely and confirmed no permit application is in to NJDEP yet. My guess is if they sent anything, they requested that the DEP tell them which permit(s) they need for this type of project. That answer will be a GP-16, but it allows the Oakland contractor to keep the ball rolling without violation of bid contract because of all the time that has elapsed since they were awarded the bid. And it will confirm to them that there is no other way to do in-stream restoration for fish habitat enhancement.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  2. #62
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Anyone have any news on this project or know if it was formerly declared dead and buried in the town archives? By bid requirements, it should have been completed by last summer. Just curious if any of you lives in Oakland and can ask what happened to this restoration. From what I know of this project which is a lot, it's better to not to do any project rather than to let the winning bidder who doesn't seem nearly qualified try and fail.

    I know the town removed the flood commissioner from his appointed (non payed) office over it and he was one of only 2 that truly understood what needed to be done and how best to get qualified bidders only to bid in the first place. He became a thorn in the side for the town council and they showed him the door, but he is a very good man and was correct all along. He originally drove this project for the borough and later had to come out against it once the bidding process went the way that it did.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  3. #63
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    The last time it was mentioned in a council meeting, Chris mumbled something about needing permits. He doesn't go into much detail, just one or two sentences during the liaison reports, if he mentions it at all.

    Last nights meeting wasn't televised, there was nothing about it on the agenda, and the newest minutes on their website are from February, so I don't know if he reported anything current.


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  5. #64
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The last time it was mentioned in a council meeting, Chris mumbled something about needing permits. He doesn't go into much detail, just one or two sentences during the liaison reports, if he mentions it at all.

    Last nights meeting wasn't televised, there was nothing about it on the agenda, and the newest minutes on their website are from February, so I don't know if he reported anything current.
    Looks like they applied for the permit (a GP-16 is what they need).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scan of DEP permit progress.jpg 
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    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  6. #65
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    The permit app will force the mussel survey which will create yet another (fully anticipated) delay until they can find someone to do the work and get the work done before November when the freshwater mussels retreat deeper into the streambed and can't be detected well during a survey. Then, once the survey is completed, it will definitely trigger the need to change the design in areas where colonies of mussels are present. We are talking state threatened species, so the Division won't mess around. That means a change order for more $$ followed by additional delays.......no wonder the flood commish resigned recently. He is smart to run away from this smelly

    It just pisses me off how much time I donated back then to help the Borough (there was nothing in it for me when I worked for TU and it only cost me time I couldn't be compensated for). I told them all about the mussel survey and how in their case the survey needs to be done first or it would cause delays and changes to designs which would increase costs. They all shook their heads in agreement, and then continued on to blow it all off and now have this mess on their collective hands.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  7. #66
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Are these mussels good steamed?

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  8. #67
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    Are these mussels good steamed?
    That all depends on how drunk your patron is at the time, I guess.

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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    lightenup (5 Days Ago)

  10. #68
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    They stopped televising the council meetings, and the "minutes" on the Borough website are always months behind, so I wasn't getting updates... I asked on a FB page frequented by some of the Flood Commission members:

    After BrianH (FlyBri) and I speculated a bit, one of the Flood Commission members who's managed to neither resign nor get fired weighed in....

    It appears that the mussel study is either happening or about to happen.
    Princeton Hydro will be "overseeing" the project, and have an engineer onsite.
    My source is predicting some "$ change orders $".

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3074...02546475046830
    Pete PE
    Does anyone know if there's been any progress in the "River Restoration" project. Since they stopped televising the Council Meetings, I haven't been able to follow the latest excuses.... It's August, if nothing's happening yet, we probably lost another year, and have a reasonable pretext to re-bid it, and limit the bids to contractors that have enough experience to stand a chance of getting a permit from the DEP.

    Brian Hrenenko
    I heard the permit was revoked.

    Pete PE
    Reliable Source? I wonder if that means they give up, or if they try again and recognize that the best advice doesn't always come from the bureaucrats ....

    Gina Danna Steele
    Waiting on mussel study- where they are in the river!

    Gina Danna Steele
    I don't think this was a requirement if trout unlimited was to do project because DEP know they would know to not to disturb them!

    Pete PE
    That should have been done two years ago. It was a requirement that we were warned about....It appears that we have lost (at least) another year. ........ Actually the other bid included a mussel study. After all the excuses about "unresponsive bid" because of the cost, I hope this doesn't involve a change order that makes the "high bid" look like a bargain.

    Gina Danna Steele
    Pete PE after they had to agree to Princeton hydro overseeing project and engineer onsite I see a change order in the future!

    Leonard Fram
    Muscle?



  11. #69
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    I see they withdrew their GP-16 permit and are now going after the GP-1 Highlands Habitat permit which is essentially the same permit except that it is for the Highlands Preservation Area whereas the Ramapo is in the Highlands Planning Area, but very few understand that even within NJDEP Land Use Regulation who issues these permits. I have had to tell the reviewers many times which permit I need and why when they question why I sometimes submit GP-1s and other times GP-16s. This project is a total joke. And guess who is in charge of the emergency response for the Eastern Concrete quarry on Spruce Run Creek? None other than Frank Rossi and Boswell Engineering. Ugh

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

  12. #70
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I see they withdrew their GP-16 permit and are now going after the GP-1 Highlands Habitat permit which is essentially the same permit except that it is for the Highlands Preservation Area whereas the Ramapo is in the Highlands Planning Area, but very few understand that even within NJDEP Land Use Regulation who issues these permits. I have had to tell the reviewers many times which permit I need and why when they question why I sometimes submit GP-1s and other times GP-16s. This project is a total joke. And guess who is in charge of the emergency response for the Eastern Concrete quarry on Spruce Run Creek? None other than Frank Rossi and Boswell Engineering. Ugh
    The creek is running cloudy and silty again, I guess it is from the "clean-up", vacuum trucks(septic suckers) back hoes and silt dams..is this the way it should be done? I hope DEP or local Enviorn. groups are watching the works being done...

    "I'm not out on the river to win." -Kieth Rutherford

  13. #71
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Spinner View Post
    I see they withdrew their GP-16 permit and are now going after the GP-1 Highlands Habitat permit which is essentially the same permit except that it is for the Highlands Preservation Area whereas the Ramapo is in the Highlands Planning Area, but very few understand that even within NJDEP Land Use Regulation who issues these permits. I have had to tell the reviewers many times which permit I need and why when they question why I sometimes submit GP-1s and other times GP-16s. This project is a total joke. And guess who is in charge of the emergency response for the Eastern Concrete quarry on Spruce Run Creek? None other than Frank Rossi and Boswell Engineering. Ugh
    I was led to believe that the "planning-preservation" boundary in Oakland was, for most of Oakland, the east bank of the river, which puts the "wet part" of the Ramapo in the preservation area.
    http://www.nj.gov/dep/highlands/docs...escription.pdf
    .... northwesterly along the Mahwah Township and Oakland Borough corporate boundary to its intersection with the Ramapo River; thence south on the east bank of the Ramapo River to its intersection with Interstate 287....
    Did I misunderstand?


  14. #72
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    Re: Ramapo River Restoration Project Moves Along

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I was led to believe that the "planning-preservation" boundary in Oakland was, for most of Oakland, the east bank of the river, which puts the "wet part" of the Ramapo in the preservation area.
    http://www.nj.gov/dep/highlands/docs...escription.pdf

    Did I misunderstand?
    No, you are correct. The old Highlands Council online mapping system showed it in Planning. The new(ish) site clearly shows that they made the delineation on the east/south bank of the river and that section is clearly in Preservation. The dopey contractors just needed to answer about 3 questions and send a full set of plans and everything that goes to the DEP to the Highlands Council via certified mail and made a simple request to Land Use with a new LURP form (landowner consent form) and their permit application would have remained in the system moving forward. Since they withdrew their GP-16 permit application entirely for the new GP-1, they reset the clock and it will take at least another 90 days (always takes more time). At least they are finally doing a mussel survey. But of course that will only lead to design changes to work around mussel colonies and since the design work is done, that will be more change orders and more $$.

    You must feel so good living in Oakland as a taxpayer

    A sinking fly is closer to Hell - ​Unknown

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