Thread: Inconsistency in knot tying

I use 6-X flurocarbon tippet material for big fish and have experienced a great number of knot problems. Basically, I use a 16/20 for the fly and a Blood or Orvis knot for the tippet connection. I'm amazed at the inconsistency...sometimes the knots hold like iron; othertimes they break like butter! Mostly it's the 16/20 which is supposed to be close to 100%. This inconsistency is evident both on the stream--which is understandable--and on the testing bench which is not understandable. The knots are all lubricated with syliva and tightened with a slow pull to eliminate heat build-up. True, my testing methods may not be professional, but neither are the conditions on the stream.

The tippet brands I've tried are Airflo G3, Orvis, Seagar and Frog's Hair. I've come to the preliminary conclusion that each brand has knots that work best with it. But I'll be damned if I can figure out the best knots for each brand. I'm also thinking that going back to monofilament might give better knot breakage results. Problem is I believe everything I've read and heard about the advantages of fluro.

Does anyone else done similar tests and experienced such inconsistency, or do all your knots break at pretty much the same rate each time?

I read recently that flourocarbon line ties OK with other flourocarbon line, but not so well with monofiliment. The article indicated that the clinch knot works better than the improved clinch knot when using flourocarbon line. Is your tippet connection to flourocarbon? Maybe that is the cause.

Andy,

I use fluoro 99% of the time and have no knot issues. Mirage or Seagar are the brands. For trout, blood knots and improved clinch knots. Very simple. No problems. I use mono leaders 100% of the time; Superstrong.

Andy,

Up until a year ago I had the same problem as you and just figured everyone was having this problem. I primarily used Orvis and Seguar floros. Then I was introduced to Drennan floro and now I won't use anything else for winter steelheading. I use the tripple sergeons tippet to leader and clinch to the fly

Cdog

I also really like Drennen, strong and not as stiff as some floro (better for nymphing). I always use the triple surgeons knot to connect the tippet and leader and I've been using the eugene bend for tippet to fly connection all with good results.

Originally Posted by Joe D

Andy,

I use fluoro 99% of the time and have no knot issues. Mirage or Seagar are the brands. For trout, blood knots and improved clinch knots. Very simple. No problems. I use mono leaders 100% of the time; Superstrong.

Not much to add here except EXACTLY the same results doing almost the same thing. I usually only tie a regular clinch knot to the fly 'cause I like to live dangerously. I am very partial to brands with Mirage, Seaguar and Varivas being the only fluorocarbon I'll use.

Here's a crazy idea; maybe it's your saliva?

I don't know "spit" about this theory but in the "Little Red Book of Knots" by Harry Nilsson; he recommends (k)NOT using saliva to lubricate knots because of the enzymes and acids found in spit. He recommends using water from the stream or even stuff like Chap Stick, IIRC!

I never really gave his theory much credence since I figured the dunking that usually follows a knot tied by me would negate the effect of any fuglies in my saliva but who knows?

BTW - I usually have a few beers before fishing and a few shots of whiskey while fishing so maybe that's MY secret to safe spit?

I also read that lip balm, rather than syliva, was the best thing to use on flurocarbon. The confusing thing is that not everyone touts it! Everyone seems to agree that the most important thing is that there is no heat generated from the tightening of the knot coils. Acid, or something else in the syliva is an interesting possibility.
As for Drennen, I have three spools and I think it has replaced Maxima as the steelheader's line of choice. However, my knot tests with it in the past have also proven inconsistent. I haven't used it that much because my 3-lb Drennen won't fit into the 6-X slot of my tippet material gauge making it heavier than other manufacturer's true 6-X which has higher rated breaking strengths. For example, Grand Max is 3.7lbs; Airflo G3 is 4Lbs; MaxKnot is 3.3lbs. Both Grand Max and G3 are also a bit oversize and won't fit into the 6-X slot, but they were my choice because of their higher strengths.
Basically, the problem as I see it is rated strength vs. true knot strength. True knot strength is the bottom line. Unfortunately, my tests have proven so inconsistent I can't arrive at the bottom line!
Throughout my angling years, I've always tried to use the strongest knots possible. I gave up on the plain old fashion Clinch knot years ago, but maybe it's time to re-test it. I've read and heard so many conflicting reports on it that I'm completely confused. Then again, I'm confused about this whole issue!

I have been fishing lately with fluoro only (frog hair) and had occasionally a clinch knot that came undone. I started testing the davy know and that little knot has so far held up 100% of my testing (no knot breaking or slippage).

I've been experimenting with the davy knot ever since Karel started the topic http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...re-8-knot.html (Davy Knot/Figure 8 knot)

I like it .... strong, easy to tie, and small.
After over 50 years of using improved clinch knots and an occasional palomar knot, I'm about to change.

Disclaimer: My opinion is based on performance with Maxima Perfexioin (mostly 4X), not flurocarbon.

Andy,

I haven't used many of the lines you've tested, and didn't know that Drennan is thicker line. Maybe that's why many times I say, "I can't believe I landed that fish on 4lb test." I can only tell you from field experience and comments from other anglers that many are switching from Segaur and Orvis floros to Drennan cause they don't loose as many fish with it. I saliva all my knots, and was told by someone to leave a about an eighth inch tag when I cut the excess line off cause floro has a tendacy to slip a bit as it tightens while fishing.

Also, I was told many moons ago, when I tighten down a knot never pull on the tag end, just cut it. He told me that pulling on the tag stress the knot more than anything else, especially with floro. I'm refering to the clinch knot.

Cdog

I once heard it was always wise to use the same manufacturer and type.

Fluorocarbon of two different manufacturers may not hold well.

I forget just who told me that, but I have always followed suit.

Originally Posted by AKSkim

I once heard it was always wise to use the same manufacturer and type.

Fluorocarbon of two different manufacturers may not hold well.

I forget just who told me that, but I have always followed suit.

Ak,

I've heard the same thing...